Law of sin and death?

Mercy74 · May 16, 2019

ralliann said:
I already gave you scripture. But here is more..
Ge 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

Abraham, Isaac Jacob and the twelve patriarchs were not given an inheritance in the temporal inheritance..covenant. That covenant concerned the fourth generation of his seed... (Gen 15) The eternal inheritance (royal inheritance) found in Genesis 17 in which Abraham hoped for after his death. He was already told he would die in the covenant made in Genesis 15. This is why God tested his faith with the resurrection of Isaac his only son.
Gen 15 :13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Faith in the resurrection of the dead... to inherit the eternal inheritance

Joseph knew he would be dead also......
Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence
Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.

with you.

Sarah said that Ishmael will not become heir WITH her , even WITH Isaac (Genesis 21:10). This done not mean Ishmael is not already a firstborn or heir.

Mercy74 · May 16, 2019

ralliann said:
Did I assume wrong that Sarah cannot disannul holy scripture? Certainly you were not hinting that you thought she would be right in doing so... ? The law which you used was what could not disannul the covenant of which we are speaking of.....
I am sorry, I truly am, but you are doing the same thing With Jesus as you have done with Isaac. Apart from Jesus, we would not be children and heirs, it is in Christ the new covenant is established. Why because Jesus was the only begotten son of God, again sole heir. In other it is through Isaac, just as it is through Christ.
Ge 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
No dismantling concerning seed of Abraham...………..That in itself does not make for children let alone heirs. Ironically Romans goes right back to Isaac as an example...….
Ro 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: {Of: or, To }

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Ge 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.

This all began with you asking me the question concerning an ONLY SON, I answered.

I am done here, be well

In Isaac shall they seed be called, this does not mean Ismael is not a son of Abraham. You have so much to learn. It says seed not seeds referring to one man. Those who believe in Christ shall be CALLED children of Abraham (Galatians 3:29). A son that is born from Abraham''s loins does not need to be called a son of Abraham, it is self evident through natural birth and dna.

ralliann · May 16, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Do you even know which law Paul the Pharisee is referring?

Ok, I wished you would have at least give reference to which scripture you are speaking of here. But I am assuming you are referring to the law that came 430 later cannot disannul?
Paul was referring to the law specifically from Moses. This is difficult because we are looking at scripture from two different lenses.

Mercy74 said:
You keep saying the same thing, but you do not understand what Paul is saying. There is a law however you are attempting to disannul with your non-scriptural doctrine of "sole heir".

Please try to elaborate so I can attempt to see where you are coming from. There is a law of works, and a law of faith. Moses law was additional law.

Mercy74 said:
I asked you for the exact words "sole heir" written in scripture, you have failed to do so. I have given you words explicitly written in scripture "co-heirs". Romans 8:17.

No the words "sole heir is not there. Sarah's words I think are good enough As well as God telling Abe to listen to her. These terms were understood in their time. Besides you asked me what it meant. What was I supposed to do? Sole heir was a term used for a modern understanding.

ralliann · May 16, 2019

Mercy74 said:
In Isaac shall they seed be called, this does not mean Ismael is not a son of Abraham. You have so much to learn. It says seed not seeds referring to one man. Those who believe in Christ shall be CALLED children of Abraham (Galatians 3:29). A son that is born from Abraham''s loins does not need to be called a son of Abraham, it is self evident through natural birth and dna.

That does not make them heirs of all things their father has. It does not even necessitate them being heirs at all.
Besides these things are allegories.

Mercy74 · May 16, 2019

ralliann said:
That does not make them heirs of all things their father has. It does not even necessitate them being heirs at all.
Besides these things are allegories.

Ishmael is an heir, like a king who has many princes and princesses. Every child of the king is considered royalty an heir to the throne. I am glad you are capable of admitting that the exact words "sole heir" is not written in scripture. I believe "what is written as it is written". Understand what it means to not go beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6).

pinacled · May 16, 2019

visionary said:
There is a lion?

my attempt at humor.

ralliann · May 16, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Ishmael is an heir, like a king who has many princes and princesses. Every child of the king is considered royalty an heir to the throne. I am glad you are capable of admitting that the exact words "sole heir" is not written in scripture. I believe "what is written as it is written". Understand what it means to not go beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6).

It is not going beyond scripture to use other terms to describe what a term means.
You asked me what only son meant, were you really expecting me to say it means only son? Come on! And to EXPlAIN the term in other words is not going beyond scripture. The first thing I did was quote scripture to support that. I quoted Hebrews where it explicitly says there is no force of a testament until the testator dies. Then I showed scripture where All Abes other sons were given gifts while he was yet living. These gifts had no force of inheritance (as scripture says), they were gifts. But gave all he had to Isaac. And then add to that the allegorical elements of the entire thing.

Mercy74 · May 16, 2019

ralliann said:
It is not going beyond scripture to use other terms to describe what a term means.
You asked me what only son meant, were you really expecting me to say it means only son? Come on! And to EXPlAIN the term in other words is not going beyond scripture. The first thing I did was quote scripture to support that. I quoted Hebrews where it explicitly says there is no force of a testament until the testator dies. Then I showed scripture where All Abes other sons were given gifts while he was yet living. These gifts had no force of inheritance (as scripture says), they were gifts. But gave all he had to Isaac. And then add to that the allegorical elements of the entire thing.

Again, the exact words "sole heir" is not found, but it is written "co-heirs". I believe what is written as it is written, no changes not even a jot or tittle. You change what is written to fit your ideas, you call it using modern words. What you are saying is not written, thus what you say is not foundational to this discussion. You should not attempt to build a house on sand. Do not go beyond what is written by the prophets.

Mercy74 · May 17, 2019

ralliann said:
It is not going beyond scripture to use other terms to describe what a term means.
You asked me what only son meant, were you really expecting me to say it means only son? Come on! And to EXPlAIN the term in other words is not going beyond scripture. The first thing I did was quote scripture to support that. I quoted Hebrews where it explicitly says there is no force of a testament until the testator dies. Then I showed scripture where All Abes other sons were given gifts while he was yet living. These gifts had no force of inheritance (as scripture says), they were gifts. But gave all he had to Isaac. And then add to that the allegorical elements of the entire thing.

Abraham gave all he had to Isaac while he yet was still alive (Genesis 25:5), he gave gifts to his other sons. The father also gave his inheritance to his two sons while he was alive, the story of the prodigal son. Ismael and Isaac buried their father together as firstborns, they participated in burial rights. The true sign of inheritance. As the prophet Elisha personally witnessed Elijah's ascension, Elisha received the mantle (2 Kings 2:13). As Jacob received the blessing from his father Isaac while Isaac was alive and blind. You must understand scriptures in their proper context.

ralliann · May 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Abraham gave all he had to Isaac while he yet was still alive (Genesis 25:5), he gave gifts to his other sons. The father also gave his inheritance to his two sons while he was alive, the story of the prodigal son. Ismael and Isaac buried their father together as firstborns, they participated in burial rights. The true sign of inheritance. As the prophet Elisha personally witnessed Elijah's ascension, Elisha received the mantle (2 Kings 2:13). As Jacob received the blessing from his father Isaac while Isaac was alive and blind. You must understand scriptures in their proper context.

I will just give you this..... Which I believe speaks to the story of the prodigal son, as well as Isaac as an heir.....distinct from Ismael being an heir. I will bolden the points I believe are of significance.
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

First we see this with Issac. Abrahams servant swearing what he will not do concerning Isaac. He has authority concerning Isaac it appears concerning where Isaac goes. And has rule over all he had.....
Gen 24:1 And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in all things. {well … : Heb. gone into days }
2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

34 And he said, I am Abraham’s servant.
35 And the LORD hath blessed my master greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses.
36 And Sarah my master’s wife bare a son to my master when she was old: and unto him hath he given all that he hath.
37 And my master made me swear, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife to my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, in whose land I dwell:

So the eldest servant still had rule over all Abe had, yet Isaac was given all Abe had.....the time appointed by Abraham was not yet.
Isaac here is still nothing different from a servant, though he was given all. The time appointed for Isaac to receive all IMO was when Abe died. Abe had already designated him his heir. The elder servants rule was ended at this point. (Or at least the time appointed until he married or bare children. But it is clear, the elder servant was yet ruling over all Abe had at that time..which Isaac already been designated to have been given it.

We see similar in the prodigal son. The son wanted what fell to him as if he were an hired servant, as his due wages. Thus as though he were dead (as an heir), as though he were lost (as an heir).
He came back to his father willing to be his servant again.
See what is said to the non prodigal son.....
Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

pinacled · May 17, 2019

ralliann said:
I will just give you this..... Which I believe speaks to the story of the prodigal son, as well as Isaac as an heir.....distinct from Ismael being an heir. I will bolden the points I believe are of significance.
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

First we see this with Issac. Abrahams servant swearing what he will not do concerning Isaac. He has authority concerning Isaac it appears concerning where Isaac goes. And has rule over all he had.....
Gen 24:1 And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in all things. {well … : Heb. gone into days }
2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

34 And he said, I am Abraham’s servant.
35 And the LORD hath blessed my master greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses.
36 And Sarah my master’s wife bare a son to my master when she was old: and unto him hath he given all that he hath.
37 And my master made me swear, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife to my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, in whose land I dwell:

So the eldest servant still had rule over all Abe had, yet Isaac was given all Abe had.....the time appointed by Abraham was not yet.
Isaac here is still nothing different from a servant, though he was given all. The time appointed for Isaac to receive all IMO was when Abe died. Abe had already designated him his heir. The elder servants rule was ended at this point. (Or at least the time appointed until he married or bare children. But it is clear, the elder servant was yet ruling over all Abe had at that time..which Isaac already been designated to have been given it.

We see similar in the prodigal son. The son wanted what fell to him as if he were an hired servant, as his due wages. Thus as though he were dead (as an heir), as though he were lost (as an heir).
He came back to his father willing to be his servant again.
See what is said to the non prodigal son.....
Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

That letter of divorce finalised by the tenth and unforgivable sin.
The tenth of a city destroyed is her choice alone. Given that a 2 fold exponential blessing is offered. The ten plagued children will devour their Egyptian mother in desperation.
Without a watered soul and well they devour blood. With three ribs in their mouth sudden destruction comes.
Not only upon Ishmael but all the 12 prince's who failed to offer obescience to Yisrayl in humble blessings.

Their leaders bring the sickle of a moon and give no thought to the fullness of the fellowship offering of comfort.

Go ahead and take a 28 day of Ramadan.
Whatever that means to your community.

Where I'm from,
Provocation is not only direspectfull.

It's an offensw of need that will be answerered.
To deny the crucible," Love your neighbor"
Will not be acceptable.

Swift justice is on the way.

Mercy74 · May 18, 2019

ralliann said:
I will just give you this..... Which I believe speaks to the story of the prodigal son, as well as Isaac as an heir.....distinct from Ismael being an heir. I will bolden the points I believe are of significance.
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

First we see this with Issac. Abrahams servant swearing what he will not do concerning Isaac. He has authority concerning Isaac it appears concerning where Isaac goes. And has rule over all he had.....
Gen 24:1 And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in all things. {well … : Heb. gone into days }
2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

34 And he said, I am Abraham’s servant.
35 And the LORD hath blessed my master greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses.
36 And Sarah my master’s wife bare a son to my master when she was old: and unto him hath he given all that he hath.
37 And my master made me swear, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife to my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, in whose land I dwell:

So the eldest servant still had rule over all Abe had, yet Isaac was given all Abe had.....the time appointed by Abraham was not yet.
Isaac here is still nothing different from a servant, though he was given all. The time appointed for Isaac to receive all IMO was when Abe died. Abe had already designated him his heir. The elder servants rule was ended at this point. (Or at least the time appointed until he married or bare children. But it is clear, the elder servant was yet ruling over all Abe had at that time..which Isaac already been designated to have been given it.

We see similar in the prodigal son. The son wanted what fell to him as if he were an hired servant, as his due wages. Thus as though he were dead (as an heir), as though he were lost (as an heir).
He came back to his father willing to be his servant again.
See what is said to the non prodigal son.....
Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Therefore a slave has only temporary residence but the son dwell in the house forever. A child is no different than a slave because he sins ignorantly like Paul the Pharisee (1 Corinthians 13:11). A child that is an heir is no different than a servant though he be Lord of all. The heir as a child is lord of all like his father (Galatians 4:1). The prodigal son was a lost heir or dead heir, he never ceased being an heir. The prodigal son has "permanent residence" in his father's house. Toral law always permit Israel to return home. You err because you do not know the scriptures or the power of G-d (Matthew 22:29).

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

visionary said:
With all these outsiders, this thread is not getting into the meatier matters of the thread. Since the law stone is the stumbling block for them. May I suggest you leave this thread and allow MJ only to post.

A "law stone" is the stumbling block? I am only thinking of 1 Peter 2 talking about the chief cornerstone of 1 Peter 2. It is Christ, not the law. What verse were you talking about?

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
1 John 2:1. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

Many use this verse to say that Jesus is our Advocate if we fulfill the lust of the flesh and sin willfully. There is no mention of repentance in this verse, so I believe it ties to 1 John 1:7, not 1 John 3:4. They are the difference in types of sins of 1 John 5:16-17. We need to know how God looks at our sins, because He is the judge.

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

visionary said:
And He was law abiding.. so abide therein..

Why did Paul say Jesus freed us from the law? What did Jesus actually accomplish that ultimately freed us from the holy law? There is a huge missing step people miss, though @LoveofTruth is on the right track.

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

visionary said:
You make it sound like Jew and Gentile have two different relationships with God. Like Jews have no grace with God, and gentiles are lawless.

True!

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Paul the Pharisee, son of a Pharisee circumcised on the 8th day taught and practiced Torah law.

You mean as a Pharisee before Christ don't you, which I agree; or do you mean in the Scriptures he wrote?

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

pinacled said:
Who are the ministers of The Fire?

This question peaked my interest, but in looking at the post of @LoveofTruth I don't know what you are responding to.

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

visionary said:
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away?? It should have been written with a question. Which glory is done away with .. the engraved stones or the face of Moses?? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Seeing as you are Messianic, I would like to know your point in quoting this verse in 2 Corinthians 3. I'm puzzled.

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

visionary said:
In the first, God is Lord of the Sabbath as Creator. In the second, God is the redeemer and keeping the Sabbath helps you to remember that. Exodus 20:1–17, and then at Deuteronomy 5:4–21.

Wow, you blew me away and was anxious to read Deuteronomy 5:4-21 but did not see the word "redeemer." Can you check again, and tell me what version and what single verse you are referring to? I really want to read that!

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