Alabama's Restrictive Abortion Law: Rape and Incest Discussion

ChristianForCats said:

I know you are a man. When it comes to sexual topics men can't understand women's issues all hte time.

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But women do - and many, many women are pro-life. Why is that?

I mean you don't understand women's issues related to the pregnancy which can result in them seeking a first trimester abortion. It is not all about the status of a fetus as a human being.

ChristianForCats said:

I mean you don't understand women's issues related to the pregnancy which can result in them seeking a first trimester abortion. It is not all about the status of a fetus as a human being.

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No I do not understand why a woman thinks her rights over shadows her child's rights due to any reason.

If people don't want to accept my opinions I am done.

ChristianForCats said:

If people don't want to accept my opinions I am done.

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I told you, i will never agree or support killing unborn baby's.

I can accept your opinions, but not support them.

Danielwright2311 said:

No I do not understand why a woman thinks her rights over shadows her child's rights due to any reason.

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Hint: 1973

ChristianForCats said:

I mean you don't understand women's issues related to the pregnancy which can result in them seeking a first trimester abortion. It is not all about the status of a fetus as a human being.

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But still, many women do think it's all about the status of a fetus as a human being. Why? Why do their arguments not count?

ChristianForCats said:

Hint: 1973

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Yes, and it is a evil law.

ChristianForCats said:

If people don't want to accept my opinions I am done.

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It's called the Internet . A difference of opinion has been known to happen from time to time.

Danielwright2311 said:

Yes, and it is a evil law.

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What evil law? The Fourteenth Amendment was written to outlaw slavery.

ChristianForCats said:

What evil law? The Fourteenth Amendment was written to outlaw slavery.

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And how does the slavery bill act to abortion rights?

chilehed said:

Rather, the question is whether or not all human beings have human rights (yes), and whether or not the path to her recovery from the trauma of the assault can include murdering the innocent child (no).

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But no one here is talking about murdering children. Whether you like it or not, words have meanings. Murder is an illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Abortion is not illegal, hence it is not murder.

ChristianForCats said:

I had a coworker who weighed 150 pounds when she got pregnant, but suffered gestational diabetes that became permanent and has weighed over 300 pounds ever since. She also almost lost her son by having a grand mal seizure (she has epilepsy) during those 9 months. Because of that seizure, she had her tubes tied.

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I noticed that none of those who say that a pregnant woman should be forced to carry the fetus of her attacker against her will have answered the question of developing diabetes. I guess women just aren't that important to them.

SPF said:

Alabama Senate passes near-total abortion ban - CNNPolitics

The Alabama law makes abortion illegal except for three exceptions:

• "To avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother"
• For ectopic pregnancy
• If the "unborn child has a lethal anomaly."

You'll see that of the exceptions, rape and incest are not among them. Opponents of the bill did attempt to have it amended to include rape and incest. Here is what Eric Johnson said below:

Eric Johnston, head of the Alabama Pro-life Coalition and the drafter of the initial legislation, told CNN "it would upend the law's legal standing.Regardless of how the conception takes place, the product is a child, and so we're saying that that unborn child is a person entitled to protection of law," he added. "So if, be it a rape or incest conception, then it would be impossible to ask a judge which of these is protected by law and which is not."

I think he's right. When it comes to the morality of abortion, the how in which a new human being comes into existence plays absolutely no role in determining their moral worth and value.

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I agree, If we are to believe and treat the unborn and a separate moral entity....deserving rights separate from the mother..... rape and incest should not be a reason to "kill" this separate entity.

But why is the mothers health an exception? If I catch an lethal illness, does that give me a right to go kill "grandpa" .....an example used often by those against choice.

The unborn did nothing wrong...and is an separate entity.....why should it's life be put at risk because someone else get sick?

If we make an excuse for "murder" because of the physical health of the mother......Why not also make an excuse for "murdering" for the mental health of one who was raped?

Archivist said:

But no one here is talking about murdering children. Whether you like it or not, words have meanings. Murder is an illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Abortion is not illegal, hence it is not murder.

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Then your position is that all human rights are mere gifts of the State, that there are none that are self-existent and unalienable and which cannot be legitimately legislated away. Your position is that we use the civil process to pass a law that says that it's not murder to kill Jews, or whites, or people under the age of five years, then that means it won't be murder in reality.

Nope. That was one of the defense arguments at the Nuremberg trials. It doesn't hold water.

SPF said:

I guess the reason I struggle with that position is because we are talking about the killing of another human being. That just seems like a big deal to me.
I don’t think we should have the freedom to choose whether or not another innocent human has the right to live or not.

If I thought the unborn wasn’t as morally valuable as a newborn then I could see the argument for it. But I really believe that an unborn truly is created in God’s image and truly does possess the same inherent moral worth and value.

Therefore, I don’t see how I could hold any position other than one that says the killing of the unborn for any reason other than medical emergency is wrong and we shouldn’t allow it

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And I simply feel that no woman should be forced to carry the fetus of her attacker against her will. Remember, my side isn't saying that the pregnant woman should be forced to have an abortion. We are simply saying that the choice must remain with her.

As I said earlier, the bill was written this way to ensure that it gets appealed to the Supreme Court.

chilehed said:

Then your position is that all human rights are mere gifts of the State, that there are none that are self-existent and unalienable and which cannot be legitimately legislated away.

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No, my position is that you are misusing a term.

Archivist said:

And I simply feel that no woman should be forced to carry the fetus of her attacker against her will. Remember, my side isn't saying that the pregnant woman should be forced to have an abortion. We are simply saying that the choice must remain with her.

As I said earlier, the bill was written this way to ensure that it gets appealed to the Supreme Court.

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against her will?

How is she being forced to carry her own child?

So killing a child is acceptable?

So what if I should have the same right not to care for my elderly parents? should i have the same right to kill them?

Killing is killing no matter how you look at it.

Archivist said:

No, my position is that you are misusing a term.

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So then your position really is that if we use the civil process to pass a law that says that it's not murder to kill Jews, or whites, or people under the age of five years for no other reason than they are one of those things then that means it won't be murder in reality.

1. The Lord knows us before he forms us in the womb.

"Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.'" - Jeremiah 1:4-5

2. God gives us life, not man.

"For You formed my inward parts: You covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, and that my soul knows very well. My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them." - Psalm 139:13-16

3. God considers a mother and a child's life of equal value.

"If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot . . ." - Exodus 21:22-24

4. God is the author of life.


"It is I who bring both death and life." - Deuteronomy 32:39

5. God creates life for a purpose.

"But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
was pleased to reveal His Son to me, so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles." - St. Paul to the Galatians 1:15-16