~Anastasia~

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Is there a difference between instincts and passions though...? Cause I'm talking about the former, not the latter...

Oh and I'm not trying to excuse or looking for an excuse either, I still think it would be wrong to kill...

But then you have to wonder when does killing become acceptable, ect...? If it is permitted or is permissible under any circumstances, ect...?

God Bless!
Well ... I can't speak for whether there is a difference between "instinct" and passions. They don't seem to come from the same vocabulary.

Passions are normal and good inclinations given by God that have been bent toward a negative expression. It isn't bad to be hungry or to eat food, for example, but gluttony and over-desiring rich foods can be bad.

But do we "instinctually" especially desire rich foods?

The bottom line I think, is that it is about healing the person and becoming like Christ. And every person who might face a difficult situation such as we are discussing is going to come to it with their own set of past sins, shortcomings, weaknesses, and strengths. What happens in their mind and spirit and how they react, and what effect their action has on them is going to be unique for each one. And God always wants to heal us. So it's not about how condemnatory the action was or was not - it's about dealing with any aftermath (if we survive) and judgement is up to God.

Talking about this question in the way it is being framed is rather foreign to the way we would approach it. But I do understand that asking questions of all sorts and examining the nuances can help us to grasp an Orthodox way of thinking, which is very foreign to western Christians.

For me, it is more helpful to consider other things and build my understanding from there. For example, I was listening to a recording recently of two priests discussing a situation where a young woman had confessed a sin which we hold to be pretty serious (it was on the order of abortion or fornication) and it was handled too leniently by the confessor. She began to suffer in the coming months and felt not right about everything in her own spirit, until she was finally given a period to abstain from the Eucharist as a medicine for healing from her sin. We need to understand that it is not a punishment (that's why I didn't say "penance") ... sometimes people fear confessing serious sins because they are afraid there will be consequences. But in truth, the consequences, when they are properly applied, are there to help us properly and fully repent, so that we can be fully restored. This is part of what I mean by considering that God wants to heal us from the effects of our sin, and restore us.

It is not simply about being judged "not guilty" so that we don't have to be "punished" in eternity. It is so that we don't suffer the effects of truly BEING evil in eternity (which would be a great suffering indeed!).
 
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YJM

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I'm not Orthodox, I just lurk here because you're a good bunch of people.

My two cents worth - if someone broke into my house and threatened my wife and grandchildren if I had a gun - in the words of Clint Eastwood I'll "blow your head clean off" without a second thought.

Since I lack the gun I'd administer a severe beating and whilst he's lying on the floor and a bruised and bloodied heap I'd pray for his healing ;) ;) ;)
 
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Silverback

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It's probably a sin if you had an option not to kill the guy to save yourself or others from harm but you chose to kill him instead.

For example, you have an option to retreat or back off but instead, you quickly drew your pistol and shot the guy.

It could be a guy that is simply having a psychotic episode and acting in a dangerous manner and instead of trying to restrain him, you quickly judge him to be a low life and shot him - this is definitely bad.

You could kill in self defense.....BUT think really hard, don't be quick to judge and make sure you have already exhausted all other non-lethal options before employing lethal options.

I love in Florida, we have a very strong castle doctrine, that makes an assumption that if someone intrudes into your home they intend to kill you, or, commit great bodily harm. This covers any structure attached to your house, such as a screened back porch, or an attached garage, the same applies to your car, if someone opens the door of your car, or, breaks the glass while you are in it, the same assumption is applied.

Here there is no requirement to run from your home, or car.

The law States you are justified in using deadly force, you do not have to use pepper spray first, or, call 911 before you act, or, try negotiating first.

You can just simply kill them where they stand, no arrest, and you are protected from a civil suit as well.

However, there are situations that may cloud the law, such as shooting the intruder in the back as he fleeing, or, using racial slurs before you shoot them, or, have stupid saying printed on your firearm, like "your F****d" if you do these things, you can expect to be in trouble.

An intruder, a year or so ago, got into my screened back porch, I surprised him, and shoved my AR15 in his face. Under the law I could have air conditioned him on the spot, no questions asked.

It was his lucky day, I just did not feel threatened enough by him, so he got to live.

If he had stepped one foot inside my house proper, I would have terminated him on the spot, no talking, no questions, and the only thing left to do is wash the walls.

Is that a sin? I don't know, but I really think people who rise to that level of criminality are flirting with disaster, and I really have little sympathy for them, it was their choice to break the law, and commit a felony.

My wife is here, my children are here, my pets are here...so what do you do?
 
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FenderTL5

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[Thinking out loud (tol)]
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Why would you want to resist that?
[/tol]
It would seem to me that there's no doubt that the killing for any reason, including self-preservation is sin. I do NOT think it to be unforgivable.

- an excerpt from THE WAGES OF SIN
By Dr. George S. Gabriel


Adam died because he sinned; now we sin because we die. "And so death passed to all men, "because of which all have sinned (έφ΄ ώ πάντες ήμαρτον)" [Rom. 5:12]. The passage is given as Saint Paul wrote it and as the Holy Fathers, untainted by Augustine's doctrine of original sin, understood it: Death is the cause of all men having sinned...

Mankind's need was for an "antidote to death" (St. Ignatius of Antioch)."Our diseased nature needed a healer. Fallen man needed one to set him upright...
Rebirth means becoming free of the influences of the devil, free of bondage of instincts and of self-interests, self-preservation, and self-gratification that arise from out corruptible condition, and, finally, free of death and corruptibility.
(emphasis added)
Self-preservation.. even the self-defense, if I understand this correctly, is sin.
This is why we value the martyrs so much. They understand this even better than we (certainly I) do.
 
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E.C.

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As the token prodigal sailor here, let me answer with what a retired OCA Army chaplain said.

"99% of jobs in the military do not involve directly taking someone's life. If you do end up in that situation, than confess to a priest immediately. Yes, it is a sin. However, if it is because of the military than it is seen differently as it is in the defense of your nation. There is a difference between military service and homocide."
 
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ArmyMatt

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As the token prodigal sailor here, let me answer with what a retired OCA Army chaplain said.

"99% of jobs in the military do not involve directly taking someone's life. If you do end up in that situation, than confess to a priest immediately. Yes, it is a sin. However, if it is because of the military than it is seen differently as it is in the defense of your nation. There is a difference between military service and homocide."

the token Army chaplain agrees.
 
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YJM

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An intruder, a year or so ago, got into my screened back porch, I surprised him, and shoved my AR15 in his face. Under the law I could have air conditioned him on the spot, no questions asked.

Quote of the century - it may be a sin, but it was funny :)
 
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