Law of sin and death?

pinacled said:

" If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. "

Click to expand...

Lu 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

pinacled said:

What do you suppose the Lord means by saying," their law"?

Click to expand...

Ge 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.

Mercy74 said:

Hebrews 11:13 "but having seen them afar off".....

Click to expand...

A far off vision
Jo :56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Ge 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Nu 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

klutedavid said:

Jesus came to reprieve those that were sentenced to death. Jesus came to redeem the dead not the living.

Click to expand...

True...that is why he told them to carry out the law. The eyewitnesses were her accusers, not Jesus.

ralliann said:

Isaac was the sole heir.
As Hebrews says,
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. {be: or, be brought in }
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Where do we find this?
Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

Click to expand...

If everything (100%) Abraham possessed truly belonged to Isaac his "sole heir" as you say, how did Abraham have any gifts (Ephesians 4:11) left to give to his other sons? In fact Ishmael is the firsrborn from Hagar, Isaac is the only son born from his mother Sarah. Have you read the story of the prodigal son, how the father divided his inheritance among his sons? (Luke 15:12) The eldest son must share his inheritance with his brothers as co-heirs (Romans 8:17). Your understanding of Torah is not cogent, you still have much to learn.

pinacled said:

With help(halachah) a person might find a separation of waters.

But what to do with tears of joy depends on a choice.
Climb a tree in hope of seeing the Lord is an honorable fruit few seek.
What was it Mosheh said......"

A strength of forgiveness is very much like a promise. An eternal light over water.

But what I know

Click to expand...

Can't walk on water unless you know what above the law means.

ralliann said:

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Click to expand...

Yes, ole sh'aul is quite honest in his personal testimony.
And what the readers should head is that his testimony is never to be broad stroked amongst the whole of the community.

Each son and daughter of the kingdom is an individual gift with unique gifts from the Lord and creator.

Blessings Always

Mercy74 said:

If everything (100%) Abraham possessed truly belonged to Isaac his "sole heir" as you say, how did Abraham have any gifts (Ephesians 4:11) left to give to his other sons?

Click to expand...

Isaac as an heir took his fathers estate after he died. Prior to his death he gave gifts to his sons by his concubines. That is what scripture of the law says.

Mercy74 said:

In fact Ishmael is the firsrborn from Hagar, Isaac is the only son born from his mother Sarah.

Click to expand...

Yes, these are "two testaments". Each testament is an inheritance.

Mercy74 said:

Have you read the story of the prodigal son, how the father divided his inheritance among his sons? (Luke 15:12) The eldest son must share his inheritance with his brothers as co-heirs (Romans 8:17).

Click to expand...

Yes, but you asked about Abrahams son Isaac as an only born son. Isaac indeed was sole heir of the covenant (circumcision) made in Genesis 17.

Mercy74 said:

If everything (100%) Abraham possessed truly belonged to Isaac his "sole heir" as you say, how did Abraham have any gifts (Ephesians 4:11) left to give to his other sons? In fact Ishmael is the firsrborn from Hagar, Isaac is the only son born from his mother Sarah. Have you read the story of the prodigal son, how the father divided his inheritance among his sons? (Luke 15:12) The eldest son must share his inheritance with his brothers as co-heirs (Romans 8:17). Your understanding of Torah is not cogent, you still have much to learn.

Click to expand...

Awesome,
Thankyou for drawing the parralels between the prodigal parable and two sons of Avrhm.

I was reminded of how the elder serves the younger. And likewise the contrast following the meek and good soil to receive a promise.
By no fault of his own was Ishmael and his mother sent away.

Blessings Always

pinacled said:

Awesome,
Thankyou for drawing the parralels between the prodigal parable and two sons of Avrhm.

I was reminded of how the elder serves the younger. And likewise the contrast following the meek and good soil to receive a promise.
By no fault of his own was Ishmael and his mother sent away.

Blessings Always

Click to expand...

There are also parallels found in Ishmael being married to an Egyptian woman, along with yosef, and shlomo(Solomon)...

I very much doubt Ishmael mother ever married another.
Very interesting.

pinacled said:

To be more specific with Truth. (Or toruth as friend of mind once shared)
There needs to be two witnesses to convict and correct..

Click to expand...

God is always perfectly righteous and just, all of His Judgments are Perfect and Right.
He NEVER makes a mistake.

ralliann said:

Yes, but you asked about Abrahams son Isaac as an only born son. Isaac indeed was sole heir of the covenant (circumcision) made in Genesis 17.

Click to expand...

Galatians 3:29
"29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

What is "Abraham's seed" and who has it?

*Is it the belief, the obedience, the promise, or something else, or all of it together?

**Whatever it is, wouldn't you agree that it is diametrically opposed to "the law of sin and death"?

What is the purpose of a seed?

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God."

1 Peter 1:23
"for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God."

1 Corinthians 15:37-38
"and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own."

Leviticus 19:19
'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.


Isaiah 61:3
"3to provide for those who grieve in Zion— to give them a crown of beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, and a garment of praise in place of a spirit of despair. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified."

Colossians 3
"14And over all these virtues put on love, which is the bond of perfect unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, for to this you were called as members of one body. And be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."

We are the Body of peace!

HALLELUYAH!!!!!

Psalms 22:27-28
"27All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD. All the families of the nations will bow down before Him. 28For dominion belongs to the LORD and He rules over the nations. "

The law of sin and death hates the above ^.

Ephesians 2
"13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace."

"The dividing wall of hostility"...this is "the law of sin and death"...

What is it ^?


*Psalms 119:127 - Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Psalms 119:34 - Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with [my] whole heart.

Tone said:

Ephesians 2
"13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace."

"The dividing wall of hostility"...this is "the law of sin and death"...

What is it ^?


*Psalms 119:127 - Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Psalms 119:34 - Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with [my] whole heart.

Click to expand...

Indeed.....All the inheritance, and covenants made with Abraham are law, are Torah.
Indeed accepting by faith the Gospel we are indeed fulfilling the law spoken concerning us upon whom the promise has come.

Tone said:

Galatians 3:29
"29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

What is "Abraham's seed" and who has it?

*Is it the belief, the obedience, the promise, or something else, or all of it together?

**Whatever it is, wouldn't you agree that it is diametrically opposed to "the law of sin and death"?

Click to expand...

Hmm never thought of the question of being opposed to the law of sin and death....
The law from Moses is holy just and good, having it's purpose. Abrahams seed is Christ, Isaac used as an allegorical likeness, of the only begotten son.

ralliann said:

Isaac as an heir took his fathers estate after he died. Prior to his death he gave gifts to his sons by his concubines. That is what scripture of the law says.

Yes, these are "two testaments". Each testament is an inheritance.

Yes, but you asked about Abrahams son Isaac as an only born son. Isaac indeed was sole heir of the covenant (circumcision) made in Genesis 17.

Click to expand...

Ishmael and Isaac were circumcised, as well as the males in Abraham''s house. Ishmael the first born of the bondservant Hagar. The firstborn son of the hated wife, must receive a double portion (Deuteronomy 21:17). Moses father in law, Jethrow, high priest of Midian was a descendent of Ishmael. Ishmael was the father of a holy priesthood (Galatians 3:29). Ishmael son a slave, his mother, yet he is a son of Abraham (Galatians 3:28). Abraham prayed for Ishmael.

Tone said:

*Psalms 119:127 - Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Psalms 119:34 - Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with [my] whole heart.

Click to expand...

With the Ruach ha Kodesh we praise the Commandments...the seed of the serpent hates them...

Mercy74 said:

Ishmael and Isaac were circumcised, as well as the males in Abraham''s house. Ishmael the first born of the bondservant Hagar. The firstborn son of the hated wife, must receive a double portion (Deuteronomy 21:17). Moses father in law, Jethrow, high priest of Midian was a descendent of Ishmael. Ishmael was the father of a holy priesthood (Galatians 3:29). Ishmael son a slave, his mother, yet he is a son of Abraham (Galatians 3:28). Abraham prayed for Ishmael.

Click to expand...

Again Mercy, you asked me about the only son, not the firstborn? I do not understand why you keep referencing more than an only son. Torah presents Isaac as a sole heir among Abrahams other sons. The one seed.