Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig Subpoenaed Over Tax Returns

Goonie · May 11, 2019

mark kennedy said:
Well you know what, after the baloney about Obama's birth certificate and chants of lock her up this should seem pretty mild. I don't know what they might find but my guess it will be that he hardly pays any taxes at all because of depreciation of real estate. That's not even the point, this is the law and the President doesn't get to decide which ones he does and does not have to comply with.

So anyone sympathetic with Mnuchin and Rettig, because they are the ones facing contempt charges? This is going to court, I would bet on it, and Trump is going to lose. I mean unless the legal argument could be made that it serves no legislative purpose. Of course they have said that, but saying it isn't a legal argument and this isn't something trivial that will come to nothing. Not because of the tax returns but because Trump is stonewalling over them.

Trump is hoping that by the time this gets to the supreme court, Ginsburg will have passed, and he will have a court ruling that the President and his records is not subject to subpoenas.

GodsGrace101 · May 11, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
Why would you assume that we would know it by now? This stuff is hard to find, particularly when everybody involved has an interest in keeping it secret. The NYT expose about his family's tax evasion took months' worth of work by one of the most well-resourced investigative journalism organizations on the planet and still only dug up stuff from decades ago before people were quite so skilled at being secretive. Most news orgs don't have the resources needed to go that deep.

You just proved my point.
Looks like something was dug up.
But from only decades ago.
I'm pretty sure stuff can be dug up...this is the newsman's job.
Unfortunately I can't speak too intelligently about specifics since I've been gone from the US a long time....

Also, there's tax avoidance which is not the same as tax evasion.

Those skeletons do rattle and newsmen sure hear the noise.

mark kennedy · May 11, 2019

Goonie said:
Trump is hoping that by the time this gets to the supreme court, Ginsburg will have passed, and he will have a court ruling that the President and his records is not subject to subpoenas.

I would be interested to see a descision might split over party lines. I've struggled with confidence in the courts over that sort of thing. A decision like that would be a landmark lose of confidence for me.

Hank77 · May 11, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
You just proved my point.
Looks like something was dug up.
But from only decades ago.
I'm pretty sure stuff can be dug up...this is the newsman's job.
Unfortunately I can't speak too intelligently about specifics since I've been gone from the US a long time....

Also, there's tax avoidance which is not the same as tax evasion.

Those skeletons do rattle and newsmen sure hear the noise.

Usually when the media reports something like this, a decade of tax returns, they didn't dig it up, it was brought to them by someone else with access to the info. The tax returns could have been obtained by someone who worked in Trump's CPA's office or tax attorney's office or even an ex-wife/wives. They may have had them in their possession for years. Maybe they intended to write a book about him at some point.

Pommer · May 12, 2019

mark kennedy said:
House Democrats issued subpoenas Friday for President Donald Trump's tax records, escalating a fight that is likely to end up in court. Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal (D-Mass.), who is spearheading the effort, delivered formal demands for the filings to both Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig. Neal is giving them until 5 p.m. next Friday to comply. (Democrats subpoena Trump's tax returns in escalating fight with White House)

The Congress has demanded Trump's tax returns, now the House Ways and Means Committee is taking action based on a statue giving them the right. The statute is pretty clear but the challenge is new territory. I don't think Trump has a chance of winning in court with Mnuchin and Rettig facing probable contempt charges if they don't comply. I'm just wondering if this isn't a tragic mistake on the part of the President or another political posturing move that will yield little.

I’m unsure what the poll is asking.
There is a “separation of powers” issue, namely the Executive ignoring a subpoena from the
Legislative because the Executive asserts that “there is no legitimate legislative issue” to advance...that’s NOT the Executive’s call, they must obey the law, which, by my reading, doesn’t have any qualifiers such as “legitimate legislative issues”.

mark kennedy · May 12, 2019

Pommer said:
I’m unsure what the poll is asking.
There is a “separation of powers” issue, namely the Executive ignoring a subpoena from the
Legislative because the Executive asserts that “there is no legitimate legislative issue” to advance...that’s NOT the Executive’s call, they must obey the law, which, by my reading, doesn’t have any qualifiers such as “legitimate legislative issues”.

It's starting to look like it will end up in the courts, I actually feel bad for Mnuchin and Rettig. They appear to be the sacrificial lambs going into this test case.

LoAmmi · May 12, 2019

I am not surprised the "law and order" President refuses to comply with the law. He really meant laws for us not for him.

Aryeh Jay · May 12, 2019

I have no problems demanding a president provide documents and records when they consistently lie to the American people (57 states, my Muslim faith, born in Kenya, etc.) Trump is clearly qualified to be President, clearly chosen by the American people to be President, clearly a billionaire, clearly a successful businessman, and clearly has a right to his privacy.

KCfromNC · May 13, 2019

mark kennedy said:
It's starting to look like it will end up in the courts, I actually feel bad for Mnuchin and Rettig. They appear to be the sacrificial lambs going into this test case.

It is their own choice to be in that position, though. So 0 sympathy for their breaking the law.

mark kennedy · May 13, 2019

KCfromNC said:
It is their own choice to be in that position, though. So 0 sympathy for their breaking the law.

Really? They are talking a $25,000 a day fine until they produce those returns. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for someone who consciously accepted a post in the Trump administration either. But this gets nasty for these guys early and often over things, they really don't have a lot of control over.

KCfromNC · May 14, 2019

mark kennedy said:
Really? They are talking a $25,000 a day fine until they produce those returns. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for someone who consciously accepted a post in the Trump administration either. But this gets nasty for these guys early and often over things, they really don't have a lot of control over.

They could just, oh, I don't know, follow the law?

mark kennedy · May 14, 2019

KCfromNC said:
They could just, oh, I don't know, follow the law?

No, no, no, think about who they work for, there's got to be another way. What if he tweets mean things about them?

KCfromNC · May 15, 2019

mark kennedy said:
No, no, no, think about who they work for, there's got to be another way. What if he tweets mean things about them?

He knew what he signed up for.

LoAmmi · May 15, 2019

mark kennedy said:
Really? They are talking a $25,000 a day fine until they produce those returns. I don't really have a lot of sympathy for someone who consciously accepted a post in the Trump administration either. But this gets nasty for these guys early and often over things, they really don't have a lot of control over.

They could resign and walk away. No guns to heads making them stay.

mark kennedy · May 15, 2019

LoAmmi said:
They could resign and walk away. No guns to heads making them stay.

I'm not saying I feel sorry for them, just don't see any honor in using them like this. My guess is they will fold, I doubt they will have much choice. I'm thinking they my be on resignation watch.

Pommer · May 15, 2019

LoAmmi said:
They could resign and walk away. No guns to heads making them stay.

The problem with this is that the person so situated knows that they’ve been keeping the more vociferous of their colleagues at bay, one of which will likely be taking their job and doing whatever the heck the President wants.

Pommer · Jun 14, 2019

As expected the DOJ asserted that “no legitimate legislative purpose” (which is not in the text of the statute) Barr’s (ahem!) the release of the President’s tax returns.

Justice releases legal opinion backing Treasury's refusal to release Trump tax returns

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig Subpoenaed Over Tax Returns

Is this a balance of powers issue?

Yes

No

Not so Mystic Mog.

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