Explaining the disastrous “grace-only” doctrine

yeshuaslavejeff said:

If you can find one or two that is not corrupt, you are very blessed.

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i see no reason to argue with you about this. It seems were essentially on the same page on this issue. I feel alot of churches treat you well and tell you your saved as long as they speculate your giving money to the church regularly. Some user on this site posted a "95 theses" type of post and number 66 was churches should accept stuff and services as a tithe in addition to money. I've seen churches that said this is not biblical and i've certainly never seen a church so far that did the practice.

There are passages in the scripture that may be understood from different perspectives. The passage you referenced below is one such passage.

“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to
the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:29-30)

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From above, BACs are predestined for 2 things:
(1) – to be conformed to the likeness of Jesus
(2) – to be called, justified, and glorified

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I believe that Paul is talking about and directly to the Jews in Rome in this passage (Romans 8:29-30).

Paul is saying that the Jews, that God had formerly known (i.e., through the law) were also predestined to salvation in Jesus Christ.

The wider context of the chapters before and after Romans chapter eight, forces my hand on the interpretation of Romans 8:29-30.

Therefore, i would reject the idea that God foreknew the Gentiles.

Hammster said:

God does His best? Your view of God makes Him quite impotent.

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I would agree with you Hammster on what you said.

Salvation is a free gift granted to all by the grace of Jesus Christ. This free gift of salvation cannot be generated or modified by us.

A view of salvation that is based on our ability to contribute to that process is absolutely impotent.

We are saved by grace!

QUOTE="BCsenior, post: 73947910, member: 401650"]Paul says that God has chosen and called
those (BACs) whom he is writing to.

Some very spiritual BACs (whom I know)
believe that when these BACs first heard
the gospel, they had the free will choice to
reject it (God's drawing power wasn't enough).

I tend to disagree, feeling they have free will
to fall away (from God's grace, etc.) later on.[/QUOTE
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If they are "very spiritual" , isn't that a good thing ? (if true).

"they had free will" this is true - why argue that ? it's true, isn't it ?

"later on" "feeling"?! no - not by feelings -
"later on" "they have free will" YES ! why argue that ? it's true, isn't it?

"free will" continues until death, right ? That's it, then it is done, over, capiche!
(after death, the judgment)

BCsenior said:

You unfortunately ignore and/or reject the
many dire warnings in the NT about the
very real possibility of losing salvation.

Here's a thread which lists some of them ...
Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

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Here is a verse to consider.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Do you believe that you cleanse yourself from sin or do you believe that Jesus is the one who purifies us?

klutedavid said:

We are saved by grace!

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And grace only gave us the Kingdom, an option.

BCsenior said:

How did you make out with the verses
in the link I gave you?

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I will reply to one of those verses you posted in your link.

Romans 8:13-14
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

When we read this passage above more carefully we see that a Christian is someone whom is led by the Holy Spirit.

God is the first cause not us. We can do nothing about our own fleshly desires. There is a powerful difference between what I can do through my own strength regarding holiness and what the Holy Spirit can do through me.

The passage says, 'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.'

Led by the Holy Spirit is God working His magic in and through us. It is never what we can do and the glory belongs to Christ's alone.

timothyu said:

And grace only gave us the Kingdom, an option.

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Saved by grace unless of course you have some personal merit that I have missed.

klutedavid said:

Saved by grace unless of course you have some personal merit that I have missed.

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No Kingdom, no salvation. Why do you think it was Jesus' only gospel?

timothyu said:

No Kingdom, no salvation. Why do you think it was Jesus' only gospel?

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Need further information in your question so that I understand what you are saying.

klutedavid said:

Need further information in your question so that I understand what you are saying.

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#332, 334, 335

Dave L said:

Love drives us to do good to others.

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Can't pagans love? Can't even an elephant love?

We're either oppressed or oppressors. Which are of the Kingdom?

BCsenior said:

This is a horrible response to one who has
just shown you your error re: righteousness.
You'll have to read the NT to discover
for yourself who a righteous person is.

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Righteousness has nothing to do with works. You can't prove righteousness by works. The unregenerate also do the same works.

BCsenior said:

Yes, you read the NT verses
and cannot believe them!

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JN 3:16, 5:24 which I believe.