Why didn't the Right try to even the chances in the Entertainment culture war a bit?

Ada Lovelace

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The most crucial force behind virtually every production that has enough steam to make its way to a theater or onto TV, whether it be a quirky independent or the newest installment of a blockbuster franchise, is not a producer or director, or the talent; it's not SAG-AFTRA (union), an agency or a studio executive. All of those are of significant importance, of course, but the engine that must be properly installed and operational for a production to move forward is the insurance policy. The leading cause for why once-leading actors struggle to become cast is that they cannot be insured (attending rehab is often as much about satisfying a demand from an insurance company as it is to seek actual rehabilitation). Repeated violations of the clauses of an insurance policy is one of the fastest ways to have a production shut down and be barred from being issued a permit to film.

The few barriers to becoming a background actor (an "extra") for a union production pertain to liability, though they are designed to help protect these workers as much as they are to protect the production from risks those workers may pose. Through the hiring process the person provides documentation establishing their identity and authorization to work, consents to a basic background check, and signs a liability waiver. There are additional provisions in place to help protect children from harm and exploitation, namely a state-issued entertainment work permit for minors. It's simple to get that permit, though. There are two private schools in Studio City that are popular with kid actors and industry parents, and many of the students have the permits so they can take advantage of opportunities that sprout up, such as if a production is needing teens for a scene that is set at a high school and comes to campus to sign them up. Working as background actors is not what gives them any influence, though, it's the pre-established connections. They are in contrast to the adults who are working not for a lark but to work, and are dependent on that income. They have microscopic influence since by nature of the very job title for background acting work, they are to be in the background.

Think of the jeopardy posed by failing to have due diligence on who is permitted onto a set, especially one that has many children or is very high budget. A few seconds of filming can be elaborately expensive. Without vetting and oversight someone seeking to maliciously wreak havoc or troll can simply enter as a background actor and then scream or do something else to ruin the shot. Hiring background actors is also a means of making them compliant with rules. It's why the audience of Judge Judy is made up of paid extras who've been given detailed instructions on how to dress, how to conduct themselves so they appear attentive and do not cause a distraction. Typically background extras are forbidden from initiating contact with the talent or above-the-line crew, mainly because of the adage of how time is money and these people need to be focused on their specified tasks. Most will act professionally even if not treated with a reciprocal courtesy. The carrot that many background workers chase after are vouchers that if they accumulate can make them eligible for SAG-AFTRA, a union with higher pay.

Due to being paid laborers background actors are entitled to reasonable breaks for meals and the restroom, though it can be grueling, monotonous and oftentimes demoralizing work. It's not uncommon for them to have to show up at hideous call times - three in the morning to do things like run up the same hill repeatedly until the director is satisfied with the take. If they are injured while on set they can receive workers compensation since they are paid workers.

Allowing extras to work for free on a production sizable enough to have any form of influence would be folly. It would be unethical, and exploit those who are already vulnerable to exploitation.

People are at "liberty" to work for free on some nonunion productions, though.
Auditions, casting calls, and jobs for union and non-union actors page 1 | Backstage
Rarely, if ever, will such productions have enough of a presence to have any form of influence on entertainment culture. These are typically student films or ultra low-budget productions that the actors are in to build up a portfolio for themselves. The only nonunion production I can think of at the moment that got picked up by a major distributor and taken notice of in a substantial way is The Blair Witch Project which was made forever ago and an anomaly.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Why pick on the least powerful and worst paid? Is that really your "conservative values" allowing desperate, out of work people to be exploited?

As far as I know, the only thing stopping "allowing" extras from "working for free" is the union, the Screen Actors Guild. If producers want to hire their friends, family, dependents and people off the street to "work for free", they can, but there is no assurance that the same people will reliably show up, looking the same, day after day.

Now there's a great conservative value - union busting to exploit the working poor.

^^ This. ^^

Though some background actors are tourists who've registered with Central Casting (the largest agency for extra work) merely for the novelty of the experience, or high school students with a parent or friend affiliated with the production and doing it for fun and a bit of pocket money, there are many who are actually dependent on earning that income, and historically they've already been vulnerable to exploitation.

In one of my economics classes we actually studied how the number of adults registered with casting agencies is a reflection on the health of the economy. Despite unemployment being currently low, wage stagnation has caused more people in full-time occupations to grapple with meeting their financial obligations and driven some to register to work as background actors as a way of generating more income. On the registration form applicants are asked to list any special skills. Some pertain to talent, such as being able to dance, juggle, or play an instrument, but others are occupational. A nurse or certified EMT is more likely to be cast for medical scenes since they will not require as much detailed direction for their scenes. Many teachers work as background actors in the summer. One of the objections when the LAUSD moved up the start date for the school year is that it interfered with the ability for teachers to do this work. Most of the television episodes aired in the fall were filmed during the summer. These college-educated credentialed teachers were not subjecting themselves to spending hours sitting on hard benches in a corral for extras, being ordered around by PAs, and
oftentimes dressed in attire that is oppressively uncomfortable (think of how many shows are set in Chicago but filmed in LA, and how you'd feel if you had to wear a wool sweater and a thick coat to look the part when it was 102 in Burbank). It can be dispiriting work. I've been in SAG-AFTRA since I was in elementary school and have witnessed how background actors have been patronized, herded into what was tantamount to a pen. Most memorably was when I was dancing for an award show and we were filming promos for it. Background actors had been hired to make it appear there was an audience. I spotted my Sunday school teacher - a lady who is a 5th grade teacher with the LAUSD and was probably in her 50s - and waved at her when the cameras were not rolling. She waved back and then got scolded for it by a 20 something PA in front of everyone. That job was at least comfortable and simple, in contrast to ones where she had to wear mud-stained clothes and run at full pace pretending she was fleeing from some terror, or soaked in fake blood, or scream until her voice was gone.

This article is from 2011 but little has improved since then for background actors:
Extras are the center of attention in crackdown on casting company fees
"When you're the weakest, least visible group of people without any clout, it's easy to take advantage of you," said Russell McConnell, a veteran extra who chairs the background actors committee at the Screen Actors Guild. "A lot of background actors live on the financial edge, and it doesn't take much to push them over, so any additional costs and fees they have to incur is critical."

Concern about fees has been heightened by the fact that many extras, especially those living in Los Angeles, are having trouble earning a living.

Most extras earn the minimum wage: $64 for an eight-hour day. Union extra jobs pay a minimum of $139 ($142 as of July 1) but have become more scarce in the last decade as producers have resisted attempts by SAG and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists to expand the coverage. For example, as of July 1, the first 21 extras jobs on a TV show in the Western region must be covered under a union contract, down from 75 jobs more than two decades ago.
 
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RDKirk

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Think of the jeopardy posed by failing to have due diligence on who is permitted onto a set, especially one that has many children or is very high budget. A few seconds of filming can be elaborately expensive. Without vetting and oversight someone seeking to maliciously wreak havoc or troll can simply enter as a background actor and then scream or do something else to ruin the shot. Hiring background actors is also a means of making them compliant with rules. It's why the audience of Judge Judy is made up of paid extras who've been given detailed instructions on how to dress, how to conduct themselves so they appear attentive and do not cause a distraction.

Hmm. When I was stationed at Pearl Harbor, it was pretty popular for young military troops to get gigs as extras for productions in Hawaii. Maybe that's part of the reason.
 
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Sjatov's Avenging Angel

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Those "barriers to entry" are just part of the cost of doing business. They apply to everybody regardless of ideological leanings. Removing them isn't going to magically make it easier for conservatives to create movies.
If the cost of doing business could be cheaper it's barrier to entry.

I did not say it would be magic.

I work in the arts/entertainment industry. My wife and most of my friends work in arts/entertainment and/or in academia related to it.

I grew up very conservative (I did a presentation about Rush Limbaugh in 8th grade and also caught the tail end of the Satanic Panic); my family is still very conservative and I'm very familiar with the rhetoric that permeates that culture and the media pundits who influence it.

IME, being effective in the arts requires a level of curiosity, empathy, understanding, and comfort with ambiguity (particularly moral ambiguity) that is extremely hard to find (and often discouraged) on the right. It also requires treating art and practitioners of the arts with some measure of respect and thoughtfulness, yet my entire life I've watch the far right denegrate the entire industry and everyone in it as a bunch of godless, liberal heathens and their work as trash to be burned in the town square.

Your side can't be effective in an industry that you train your children to despise and distrust. Few of them will be inspired to enter that field in the first place, and those who do will be at a competitive disadvantage because they'll have to unlearn all of that nonsense before being able to do the work.



I wasn't aware of this, so I did some looking.

I went back through about a week and a half of Federalist posts and didn't see much beyond reviews of GoT or Marvel movies. (given this week's lineup, that's not surprising and FWIW I don't necessarily fault them for that) Some were stupid; some were fine, but not terribly thoughtful. None of it was inspiring. But even assuming that there is some good, legitimate, thoughtful art criticism and understanding buried in there that I just didn't find, getting there would've required wading through tons and tons of simple-minded, dishonest invective (in the form of their other articles) that is entirely antithetical to creating good art. Any prospect of engendering art appreciation in a single piece would've been undone by the dozens of bitterly negative headlines past which you would've had to scroll to get there.

National Review was notably better, but they're sort of the last bastion of Never-Trumpers, so I don't know how representative they are of the whole of the right. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a high correlation between being a never-Trumper and appreciating art. Ditto for Reason. I didn't find much on Reason aside from their TV section, but they strike me more as sensible libertarians than as hard-right antagonists a la Hannity et al. They would be the places I'd expect to find Koch and the other remaining rich art-appreciating holdouts.

What does effective in the arts mean? You cannot be an atheist and right wing? There are no right wingers who are not christians or barely practice?
What does being a Never Trumper or not being has to do with being appreciative of art or moviemaking craftsmanship?

You can think Trump is useful for the Right and appreciate the arts.
 
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iluvatar5150

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What does effective in the arts mean?

Being influential.

You cannot be an atheist and right wing? There are no right wingers who are not christians or barely practice?

Being right wing isn't 100% synonymous with being very religious, but at least in the US, there is a high correlation between the two. That doesn't really matter, though, since I've seen plenty of barely-religious people on the right co-opting religious terminology to attack the left. Religion is a convenient weapon, whether or not it's wielded sincerely.

What does being a Never Trumper or not being has to do with being appreciative of art or moviemaking craftsmanship?

Being a never-Trumper requires a level of self-reflection and self-awareness and willingness to go against the crowd that IME is also conducive to making good, thoughtful art. It's hard for me to imagine how someone could get caught up in the blind sycophancy that is Trumpism and still have the thoughtfulness and contemplative capacity required to create good art.

Note that being a "good artist" is not the same as being a good craftsman.

You can think Trump is useful for the Right and appreciate the arts.

There's a difference between being a fan of Trump and thinking he's useful for the right. Heck, I think he's useful for the right and I think he's an embarrassment. My comments aren't directed at the folks who merely see him as useful; they're directed at his true fans.
 
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RDKirk

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Being right wing isn't 100% synonymous with being very religious, but at least in the US, there is a high correlation between the two. That doesn't really matter, though, since I've seen plenty of barely-religious people on the right co-opting religious terminology to attack the left. Religion is a convenient weapon, whether or not it's wielded sincerely.

I keep saying: Jesus is not a way of life for the right-wing cultural gang. Jesus is just their gangsign.
 
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Sjatov's Avenging Angel

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Being influential.
So you are making the case that right wingers cannot be influential in the arts?
Being right wing isn't 100% synonymous with being very religious, but at least in the US, there is a high correlation between the two. That doesn't really matter, though, since I've seen plenty of barely-religious people on the right co-opting religious terminology to attack the left. Religion is a convenient weapon, whether or not it's wielded sincerely.
I coiuld not find what you qouted but i assume this means you agree with what i wrote.
Being a never-Trumper requires a level of self-reflection and self-awareness and willingness to go against the crowd that IME is also conducive to making good, thoughtful art. It's hard for me to imagine how someone could get caught up in the blind sycophancy that is Trumpism and still have the thoughtfulness and contemplative capacity required to create good art.

Note that being a "good artist" is not the same as being a good craftsman.

So there is just blind loyalty to Trump and anti Trump, no room for nuance for someone to be hopeful about Trump and created good art whatever that means.

There's a difference between being a fan of Trump and thinking he's useful for the right. Heck, I think he's useful for the right and I think he's an embarrassment. My comments aren't directed at the folks who merely see him as useful; they're directed at his true fans.
I honestly think that category is insignificant.

Sure it can be cheaper. Don't use extras.
This is like saying build a house with weak material...
 
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TLK Valentine

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Allowing extras to work for free and reducing movie copyringhts to 20 years woould mess with the ability of the current studio system to preach their values or qoute unqoute values.

I legit think it could lead to a more ideologicaly diverse entertainemnt landscape.

They had everything 2 years ago in terms of legilsative power.

Why is the Right's only change of "winning the culture war" rewriting the rules? Why can't they win by the rules already in place?
 
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Pommer

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Why is the Right's only change of "winning the culture war" rewriting the rules? Why can't they win by the rules already in place?
And there’s a gun in nearly every movie....that’s gotta be a “win”!
 
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iluvatar5150

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So you are making the case that right wingers cannot be influential in the arts?

It's not impossible, though I think it unlikely.

So there is just blind loyalty to Trump and anti Trump, no room for nuance for someone to be hopeful about Trump and created good art whatever that means.

Why would you think there's no room for nuance?

I honestly think that category is insignificant.

You think his base of TrueFans is insignificant? Most of the conservative media industry caters to his every whim. Few congressional Republicans dare challenge him on anything. And he's got some of the highest approval ratings of any Republican president in history.
 
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Sjatov's Avenging Angel

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Why is the Right's only change of "winning the culture war" rewriting the rules? Why can't they win by the rules already in place?
The Left never changed any rules?

And there’s a gun in nearly every movie....that’s gotta be a “win”!
No it's not. Same is true in India and Hong Kong.

I will answer Iiluvatar also.
 
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evoeth

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Was Netflix Hollywood when it started?

If actual rich people would put real money to decrease the dominance of the Progressives i fail to see why it could not succeed.

Just consider that the audience for right wing propaganda is probably much more limited than you think.
 
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RDKirk

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Just consider that the audience for right wing propaganda is probably much more limited than you think.

Generally speaking, when the audience can detect someone grinding his own ax, they stop paying attention. The problem with art by ideologues is that they can never hear themselves grinding their own axes.

That can go both ways. It's the reason why audiences failed to respond to both "God is Not Dead" and to Disney's "A Wrinkle in Time."

The original "Red Dawn" was chock full of right-wing propaganda. But it was also quite a bit of fun.
 
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TLK Valentine

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So you are making the case that right wingers cannot be influential in the arts?

They can be... but for the most part, they aren't.

But hey, if at first you don't succeed...


So there is just blind loyalty to Trump and anti Trump, no room for nuance for someone to be hopeful about Trump and created good art whatever that means.

No doubt some such people exist... they must be terribly disappointed. No wall, no Muslim ban, no repeal of the ACA, no deal with North Korea, no plan to deal with Iran (except empty threats of war), no headway with China (except tariffs on top of more tariffs)...

A pro-Donald artist would probably be going through their "blue" period right about now...

I honestly think that category is insignificant.

His true fans feel likewise, I'm sure.

This is like saying build a house with weak material...

You want something made cheap, or do you want it made well?
 
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iluvatar5150

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I will answer Iiluvatar also.

If you want a good example of why right-wingers are unlikely to become influential in the entertainment culture war, google "First Man controversy" and compare the actual movie First Man to the right's insipid reaction to it without having even seen it.

Even POTUS got in on it (spoiler alert for this one).

First Man is about Neil Armstrong and his struggle to overcome the death of his 2yo daughter (as well as several of his colleagues) while balancing his obligations as a husband and father with the demands of his very dangerous and very public job. It's a great movie (that sounds incredible btw) that hits on a bunch of traditionally conservative touchstones: family, country, work, but the conservative anger mill got butthurt because the filmmakers chose not to show the flag-planting scene in favor of focusing on other, more personal elements of the story. In their minds, one infers, Armstrong can't be treated as a struggling person, but rather can only be rendered as flag-waving American in service of the cartoonish jingoism that so many conservatives perceive to be patriotism. Until conservatives learn how to tell stories without such a simple-minded, ham-fisted agenda, they'll never even the chances in the culture war. Nor would they deserve to.
 
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RDKirk

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Until conservatives learn how to tell stories without such a simple-minded, ham-fisted agenda, they'll never even the chances in the culture war. Nor would they deserve to.

Well, conservatives are not the only ones who serve up stories with simple-minded, ham-fisted agendas, but in general the left-wing stories with simple-minded, ham-fisted agendas don't do well at the box office either.
 
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