Who believes we are in the latter days and that the Rapture will happen in our lifetime?

The Righterzpen said:

Well the Scripture is pretty clear that those who are believers are the children of promise; so I don't know why people get all "gaga" over "national Israel".

Did you know that 85% of modern Jews aren't even Semitic? And Jews who do have a particular marker of "ancient Middle-Eastern DNA"; they can't even identify the original source of that DNA; because most of the people who currently live in the Middle-East have that same marker.

So, for anyone wishing to make an argument for "Jewishness" based on genetics - sorry; it just aint there.

Click to expand...

I said "Israel" not Jews, and I said I am grafted in.

Tone said:

I said "Israel" not Jews, and I said I am grafted in.

Click to expand...

So, if it's not about "descendants of Abraham" in a literal sense - than how are you being "reconciled to the older brother" what does that mean? Making peace with the Old Testament? If Christ is the prophetic fulfillment there of - than what is there to be reconciled to?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Good question......
Jesus also referenced a mountain being cast into the sea......

What mountain was Jesus talking about in Matt 21:21>

Faith, Mountain, and Sea Matt 21:21/Mark 11:3

Matthew 21:21
Yet Jesus answering said to them, "amen I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting<1252>, not only the of the fig-tree<4808> ye shall be doing,
but even-ever to the Mountain, this, ye may saying, 'Be being lifted up!<142> and be being cast! into the Sea', it shall be becoming"; [Revelation 8:8]

Hebrews 12:
18 For you have not come to a mountain that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and to blackness, darkness, storm, 19 the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which those who heard it begged that not one more word should be spoken to them,
22 But ye have come<προσεληλύθατε 4334> to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,

Revelation 8:8
And the second messenger trumpets, and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the Sea,
and the third of the sea became blood,
=====================================

Click to expand...

Interesting correlation on the "mountain burning with fire". Obviously it's Sini!

Now ya got me wondering what does it mean Sini thrown into the sea? Hum..... A couple of possibilities I can think of off the top of my head.

Revelation says that the "sea" (or waters) Babylon the mother of harlots is sitting on is "people, tongues and nations".

Hum..... ??

@Tone

The "Hebrew roots movement" - I'd never heard that term before - watching a video at current (not that I've never heard of the concepts). So, I'm watching an informational video on it right now. To me though, this movement just sounds like "Judeizers" repackaged.

Tone said:

The pastor at an assembly I just returned from said something useful. He said when a motorcyclist is making a turn on a bike, they don't focus on the front of the bike where the wheels are turning on the street, because they will head right into the ground, instead they look far into the distance of the turn...

Click to expand...

But no one has seen into the future correctly when it comes to rapture. All idle speculation and unfortunate distraction from what life really ought to be about.

parousia70 said:

Kind of an ironic, pessimistic worldview for someone with the screen name "FutureAndHope".

Click to expand...

Not sure what you think is pessimistic about my world view. But it is a biblical one. The fact is that in the last days there will be persecution of Christians, both men and women. You only have to look into church history to see that the apostles, and many generations of Christians have undergone persecution, be it burning at the stake, beheading, and other tortures. The fact is that as Christians we need to be aware that these things could happen to us. When I say could, not everyone will undergo harsh persecution, as in all times past, some Christians will go through the persecution with relatively little harm, yet they will still be displaced, robed of possessions, and have no place in society. Even the verse below suggest levels of distress:

Rev 13:10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

As for the current state of society. It is pushing Jesus out and replacing it with an Antichrist, homosexual based philosophy. It is interesting that in Daniel one of the traits of the Antichrist is "he will not ... regard the desire of women", possibly aligning him with homosexuality. It would not surprise me if the Antichrist is a homosexual.

Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

TheSinningServant said:

I apologize if this question has already been asked.

I am wondering if anyone believes that we are in last days based on prophecies and why. If you do not think so, I would also like to know why you think this.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Well, after reading all this discussion on "end time experts" - LOL.

If you're interested in reading something whereas I've found a lot of "interesting coincidences" in the Scripture?

Here ya go!

Bible Study - END TIMES? Chapter 1: Introduction, a bible fanfic | FanFiction

FutureAndAHope said:

Not sure what you think is pessimistic about my world view.

Click to expand...

The view that the world is just going to get worse and worse and worse and worse and there’s nothing Christians can do about it. That would be what I think is pessimistic about your worldview.

The apostles believed otherwise.
The Apostles were certain Christians would turn the world upside down, subdue Kingdoms and establish righteousness and that nothing could stop us.

That’s the Biblical view. And I’d say it’s spot on!

But it is a biblical one.

Click to expand...

As you can tell, I disagree.

The fact is that in the last days there will be persecution of Christians, both men and women. You only have to look into church history to see that the apostles, and many generations of Christians have undergone persecution, be it burning at the stake, beheading, and other tortures.

Click to expand...

How does that record of Church history differentiate itself from the Biblical last days?

As for the current state of society. It is pushing Jesus out and replacing it with an Antichrist, homosexual based philosophy.

Click to expand...

What society is that?
Saudi Arabia? India? South America? China?
Where?
All over the world?

The fact is there are more Christians today than there were yesterday, and there will be more tomorrow than there were today...

Nations rise and fall, and many had devolved into levels of moral debauchery that we couldn’t even imagine of today (indeed homosexuality, for example, was far more widespread and accepted in the societies of Ancient Rome and Greece, to the point where it was even a REQUIREMENT!… What’s going on today is peanuts and patty-cake compared to how bad it used to be) The fact is the arc of history continues unabated toward the inevitable Christianization of the planet.
The past 2000 years have brought us leaps and bounds toward that inevitable hopeful future..
Might take another 1000 years or more, but God is patient. (And 1000 years is buy a day to him anyway)

It is interesting that in Daniel one of the traits of the Antichrist is...

Click to expand...

Daniel never says one thing about the biblical antichrist. Not even one. All the teaching contained in the Bible about nature and traits of antichrist are contained in first and second John. Any interpretation of what antichrist is or is not that does not line up with that explicit specific teaching found in those two chapters Is entirely unbiblical.

People have invented for themselves this idea of a future, singular, global, totalitarian despot named antichrist, when no such teaching exists in scripture anywhere.

It does help to sell a lot of “left behind” fiction books and movies though…to line the pockets of the televangelists

The Righterzpen said:

Interesting correlation on the "mountain burning with fire". Obviously it's Sini!

Now ya got me wondering what does it mean Sini thrown into the sea? Hum..... A couple of possibilities I can think of off the top of my head.

Revelation says that the "sea" (or waters) Babylon the mother of harlots is sitting on is "people, tongues and nations".

Hum..... ??

@Tone

The "Hebrew roots movement" - I'd never heard that term before - watching a video at current (not that I've never heard of the concepts). So, I'm watching an informational video on it right now. To me though, this movement just sounds like "Judeizers" repackaged.

Click to expand...

Well, I don't know what you are watching...a critique? I'm pretty sure every group has their critics. Try this short one. I have gained a lot from this guy Brad Scott of WildBranch ministry. I do not consider them to be "Judaizers".

Tone said:

Well, I don't know what you are watching...a critique? I'm pretty sure every group has their critics. Try this short one. I have gained a lot from this guy Brad Scott of WildBranch ministry. I do not consider them to be "Judaizers".

Click to expand...

So.... do you need to be circumcised and perform animal sacrifices because that "fills up the spirit of the law"? If you're passionate enough about it, than you've "fulfilled it in spirit"? (That's basically what he said.)

Now let's take his concept and see if it has universal application across all Scripture passages that use that word. (And we are doing this because the Scripture tells us to interpret it by using itself. "line upon line, precept upon precept...." (Isaiah 28)

The word "fulfill" in Hebrew is translated as:
fill (107x), full (48x), fulfill (28x), consecrate (15x), accomplish (7x), replenish (7x), wholly (6x), set (6x), expired (3x), fully (2x), gather (2x), overflow (2x), satisfy (2x), miscellaneous (14x).

The word "fulfill" in Greek is translated as:
be (255x), come to pass (82x), be made (69x), be done (63x), come (52x), become (47x), God forbid (with G3361) (15x), arise (13x), have (5x), be fulfilled (3x), be married to (3x), be preferred (3x), not translated (14x), miscellaneous (4x), vr done (2x).

Now as we can see just by looking at all these words, "fulfill" does't universally mean "to fill up".

Let's take a look at a couple of examples:

Numbers 6:13
And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:

Now one of the things that happens once the Nazarite vow is "filled up" is the person cuts their hair. They no longer continue in letting their hair grow because the vow is "fulfilled". So the cease from a certain activity because it's fulfilled.

John 15:25
But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Now here's an interesting example of this in the negative. What's written in the law has been "filled up" that they hated Him without a cause. Now keep in mind the passage says they are fulfilling the law with their hatred; yet are they suppose to hate Him? Is what they are doing a moral action? No, they are actually fulfilling the law by their sin!

Do they eventually cease to hate Him without a cause? Well, yeah they do. The cease when either they are converted or they face God's wrath.

So here is another example that they are fulfilling the law by something that morally they should stop doing!

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Here's a verse that gives us some information. Righteousness of the law is not fulfilled in the flesh but after the Spirit. The next 3 verses I'm going to put up here explain what that means.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Now these three verses here all explain that if you love one another, work no ill toward your neighbor and love your neighbor as yourself; you have "filled up" the law.

Now does being circumcised, performing animal sacrifices or not eating pork have anything to do with loving someone else?

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now here's my question related to this passage. Is the law "filled up" for some people and not for others? (thus the reference to heaven and earth passing away). If it's been fulfilled for a believer because of Christ, than jot and tittle does pass away, even if heaven and earth haven't yet.

Yet, note the weightier matters (justice, mercy and faith) are displayed in showing forth love as the fulfillment of the law.

It's not about following the outward sign when the substance has come and fulfilled the law.

So what happens practically speaking and how?

The guy in the video does have correct that it is God who plants the seed. What he's missing though is that the permanence of that planted seed is not nurtured in following the outward signs of the Mosaic law.

The Holy Ghost does not take up permanent residence in someone to go back to picking up the law of Moses. Those in Christ are dead to that law and in Christ are alive to the law of the Spirit of life or the law that gives life. Romans 8:2, Galatians 3:21.

Those born of the Spirit are now under a different law. And that "law of life" is still good and right and just and moral, because all those things are the nature of God the Spirit who now indwells that person. They live on a different paradigm; because the purpose of the first law was to convict men of sin.

The Righterzpen said:

Those born of the Spirit are now under a different law. And that "law of life" is still good and right and just and moral, because all those things are the nature of God the Spirit who now indwells that person. They live on a different paradigm; because the purpose of the first law was to convict men of sin.

Click to expand...

In short, the "law of sin and death" is not Torah.

This is not the forum or the thread to debate this, but I will see you in the following if you wish:

What commandments is Jesus talking about?

The Commandments

Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

Col 2 is not opposing the Bible - it is opposing making stuff up via traditions of man

Sabbath and The Law

This thread is a discussion on eschatology.


*Thanks for watching the video, by the way.

crossnote said:

I believe so as the last days involve Israel's regathering and eventually all nations coming against Her. Our Lord gave us signs pointing to the season of His Coming and they are a blooming.

Click to expand...

A BIG Amen!

Luke 21:32
32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

---SE---

Click to expand...

It means no respect because in Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

In 2Thessalonians2:4, the person is claiming to be God.

The person is not an atheist.

Douggg said:

It means no respect because in Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

In 2Thessalonians2:4, the person is claiming to be God.

The person is not an atheist.

Click to expand...

Incorrect. The beast is not one man. The beast is a BODY of professed Christians who have opened their mouth in blasphemy against God. It is right in God's House.

The modern logic, like yourself, might ask, how could it burn God's people and yet they don't know it? The answer of course is that it's not a physical burning, but a spiritual burning. God is using symbolic terms just as He does in Revelation 16 with the sores that caused His people pain wherein they blasphemied God. They don't know that they are deluded and blaspheming God, for God has not given it unto them to know. Again, this cannot emphasize enough to many times:

2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12

• "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
• And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

God sends His external congregation people thus STRONG delusion, which means they do not know what this is because they are deluded or deceived! Get it? There are false prophets and christs out there where they had many people believe the lie that they are saved, but are unable to be saved at this time! And what does God say the result of this delusion that He Sends upon them? That they believe a lie. In other words, they think they are serving God but are serving the devil and blaspheming God by embracing satanic doctrines. This same blasphemy that we see today in many churches, who "believe" that they are serving Christ, when they are serving the pseudo-christ or Anti-christ. They serve the false Christs and blasphemy God because He has cut them off, forsaken them who would not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness, exactly what Revelation 11:2 said:

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

So then, when it says they blasphemed God because of their pains and sores...

Revelation 16:10-11 KJV
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

The seat of the beast will not be in Temple Mount. It is the congregations of God all over the world. God is talking about HIS kingdom that was given to Satan and the Gentiles for the purpose to judge the unfaithful in his congregation. It is not about physical pains and sores. Rather the pains and sores signifies SINS which requires Jesus Christ as our doctor to heal! Therefore Revelatino 16 is not saying they're aware of their pains and sores and so blasphemy God because of it, rather God sent this plague upon them that they might believe a lie and blasphemy, and all be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Their fall into blasphemy or believing the lie is all God's doing, the result of their spiritual fornication or unfaithfulness.

As in the days of Isaiah, "Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law." Who will give the congregation today for a spoil, and the church to the buyers and sellers the den of thieves? Is it not the LORD, he against whom they have sinned who would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law? Think about it! And they won't recognize it any more than Israel did. It is God who gives Satan and his minions a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies that he continue forty and two months. When they open their mouths in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, his tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven, it is because God gave it to them. Yet they are so deceived and deluded, they blasphemy without knowing they are blaspheming. Remember all the Jewish leaders of God's congregation whom Christ said were blaspheming? They were unaware that they were blaspheming, in fact, they thought Christ was the one blaspheming. Because God's judgment was upon them, that they were blinded to the Truth and could not see nor hear the Truth. Same things are happening to unfaithful believers in the congregation of God today!

Revealing Times said:

You need to think things through before you hit send, because everyone knows Atheists who do not believe in God Blaspheme His name all the time.

Click to expand...

Listen... God does not send a plague upon atheists who were not called into his congregation in the first place and were already deceived under Satan's Camp. God was talking about HIS EXTERNAL CONGREGATION, aka the professed Christians with the spirit of disobedience who actually believe God but won't do His will. It is them that God allowed the false prophets and christs to DECEIVE so they will "BELIEVE A LIE" even if they seek salvation (death in Christ, Revelation 9). Selah!

The Last Beast is a MAN.......That is a fact, the NUMBER of his name is 666.

Click to expand...

Yeah?

Revelation 13:16-18 KJV
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

God called for those with WISDOM. Tell me...do we count chronologically by one until we reach six hundred threescores and six? That would be ridiculous of course. But God didn't give us any other number to count with or by, so obviously, He wants us to simply count "that" single number. He didn't say add it to another number, He didn't say assign letters for numbers, He didn't say to calculate it using Hebrew numerology, and He didn't say that it was three six's. The number is not 6 three times, it is "literally" 600, +60 +6. And so as faithful servants of God, we should do exactly as God has instructed. Do what? We COUNT this number the only way it can be counted. As the number of itself.

Tell me how can we do that...if you have the understanding!

parousia70 said:

Daniel never says one thing about the biblical antichrist. Not even one. All the teaching contained in the Bible about nature and traits of antichrist are contained in first and second John. Any interpretation of what antichrist is or is not that does not line up with that explicit specific teaching found in those two chapters Is entirely unbiblical.

People have invented for themselves this idea of a future, singular, global, totalitarian despot named antichrist, when no such teaching exists in scripture anywhere.

It does help to sell a lot of “left behind” fiction books and movies though…to line the pockets of the televangelists

Click to expand...

From your past post, I am glad you have a positive view of the world, and it will be good if it turns out the way you stated. But you are 100% wrong with your view that there is no Antichrist.

The bible says:

2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Jesus Himself said of the last days:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Daniel said:

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

After this the Anti Christ arises:

Exulting himself as God, setting himself up in the temple.

Dan 11:36-37 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

The same man is:

Rev 13:1314 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revealing Times said:

By the way, Atheists can and do BLASPHEME God's name by mocking Hm today.

Click to expand...

The person also blasphemes them that dwell in heaven.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

He can't be an atheist.

ewq1938 said:

Antichrist also means "instead of Christ" meaning a copy or false Christ and Christ is God so either way the AC is not an Atheist.

Click to expand...

Just one more step in your rationale regarding the Antichrist.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The jewish religious leaders mocking him were referring to Jesus - Christ the King of Israel.

The Antichrist will be someone "instead of" Jesus - as the King of Israel.
_____________________________________________________________________

The person cannot become the King of Israel unless he is a Jew, and his religion is Judaism in order for the Jews to embrace him as their king. Being an atheist is out of the question.