Love Your Neighbor. Why?

Athens said:

Christ instructed his disciples to love their neighbors. He also instructed them to love their enemies. So, love your neighbor and love your enemy. That really leaves no one out. His disciples are supposed to love all people. I have many questions concerning this. #1. In what sense are strangers worthy of my love and in what sense am I worthy of the love of a stranger?#2. To love all people would basically make it so that you don't have any enemies at all. Your enemy may hate you from his perspective and be your enemy, but from your perspective you have no enemies. How will that not take passion out of life? There's passion in hate just as there's passion in love. #3. Imagine someone who has no strong feelings. He may feel in some sense strongly when he reads books on philosophy or poetry or when he engages someone in passionate rhetoric, but he feels no strong ties of emotional connection with anyone. How can such a person love in any meaningful or Christian way?

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First idea that comes to mind is, what did any one deserve what Jesus did for them?

in terms of the stoic, apparently God made it work with some of them in the past, so it shouldn't be an issue. Romans 12 helps in that sense for instructions.

Athens said:

Christ instructed his disciples to love their neighbors. He also instructed them to love their enemies. So, love your neighbor and love your enemy. That really leaves no one out. His disciples are supposed to love all people. I have many questions concerning this. #1. In what sense are strangers worthy of my love and in what sense am I worthy of the love of a stranger?#2. To love all people would basically make it so that you don't have any enemies at all. Your enemy may hate you from his perspective and be your enemy, but from your perspective you have no enemies. How will that not take passion out of life? There's passion in hate just as there's passion in love. #3. Imagine someone who has no strong feelings. He may feel in some sense strongly when he reads books on philosophy or poetry or when he engages someone in passionate rhetoric, but he feels no strong ties of emotional connection with anyone. How can such a person love in any meaningful or Christian way?

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You should love your neighbor because he wants to love you but he doesn't know how.

Maybe it is the term "love" that is confusing. I don't believe it is meant in an emotional way (Like you love your mother or even your dog.) rather it means to treat everyone fairly and kindly. Michael Collum's reference to Romans 12 is good. Also THIS site references some old testament ideas.

You don't have to like (phileo) your neighbor or your enemy in order to love (agapeo) them. That's not what Jesus meant. You and God have an agreement that you won't harm your neighbor or your enemy, and if the opportunity or need presents you will help them.

You are also to carefully discern your relationship with them and avoid conflict.

You are to regard them as deserving of respect and the courtesy shown to others publically and privately.

When you see an immediate need you are duty-bound to help them regardless of your personal feelings for them.

You don't have to like them.

Do you understand that Jesus' gospel was the Gospel of the Kingdom? That the Kingdom is upside down compared to the world that man has made in our image?

The Kingdom functions according to the will of the Father which is put His will before our own and love all as self.

Our world functions according to our will which is predominantly self serving, seeking gain at the expense of others, and self justifying it all by changing the definition of good and evil to whatever suits us.

Watch the news. Everything on there is based on those principles and causes all the woes, evils, whatever you want to call them.. in the world.

The Kingdom's ways counteract those evils and quite simply, to follow Jesus means to do as He taught and live in allegiance to the Kingdom and not the world of man. Be in it but not of it. Repent of man's will in favour of God's will. No simplky carrying on thinking you are saved, because you are not if you don't play the part. If anyone doesn't understand that they will be disappointed come resurrection time.

The reason Jesus commands us to love all others is so that we would be at par with God the Father who is like that as well.

The secret of love is that it grows us a dwelling place for God inside of our hearts.

So truly loving God and neighbour grows us our new life in Him and sanctifies us from our old ways.

1 John 4:7-16
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

Athens said:

Christ instructed his disciples to love their neighbors. He also instructed them to love their enemies. So, love your neighbor and love your enemy. That really leaves no one out. His disciples are supposed to love all people. I have many questions concerning this. #1. In what sense are strangers worthy of my love and in what sense am I worthy of the love of a stranger?#2. To love all people would basically make it so that you don't have any enemies at all. Your enemy may hate you from his perspective and be your enemy, but from your perspective you have no enemies. How will that not take passion out of life? There's passion in hate just as there's passion in love. #3. Imagine someone who has no strong feelings. He may feel in some sense strongly when he reads books on philosophy or poetry or when he engages someone in passionate rhetoric, but he feels no strong ties of emotional connection with anyone. How can such a person love in any meaningful or Christian way?

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Even Science admits that LOVE ... or EMPATHY ... is the GLUE that makes societies out of individuals, ... and that individuals joined into SOCIETIES is a great source of human progress ...

Athens said:

Christ instructed his disciples to love their neighbors. He also instructed them to love their enemies. So, love your neighbor and love your enemy. That really leaves no one out. His disciples are supposed to love all people. I have many questions concerning this. #1. In what sense are strangers worthy of my love and in what sense am I worthy of the love of a stranger?#2. To love all people would basically make it so that you don't have any enemies at all. Your enemy may hate you from his perspective and be your enemy, but from your perspective you have no enemies. How will that not take passion out of life? There's passion in hate just as there's passion in love. #3. Imagine someone who has no strong feelings. He may feel in some sense strongly when he reads books on philosophy or poetry or when he engages someone in passionate rhetoric, but he feels no strong ties of emotional connection with anyone. How can such a person love in any meaningful or Christian way?

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Who said love is syruppy emotions?

John 15:13 (KJV) Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Athens said:

Christ instructed his disciples to love their neighbors. He also instructed them to love their enemies. So, love your neighbor and love your enemy. That really leaves no one out. His disciples are supposed to love all people. I have many questions concerning this. #1. In what sense are strangers worthy of my love and in what sense am I worthy of the love of a stranger?#2. To love all people would basically make it so that you don't have any enemies at all. Your enemy may hate you from his perspective and be your enemy, but from your perspective you have no enemies. How will that not take passion out of life? There's passion in hate just as there's passion in love. #3. Imagine someone who has no strong feelings. He may feel in some sense strongly when he reads books on philosophy or poetry or when he engages someone in passionate rhetoric, but he feels no strong ties of emotional connection with anyone. How can such a person love in any meaningful or Christian way?

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Interesting questions. But, as someone else pointed out, the "love" in this context is not an emotional love like one has for their family. It is more of a friendship or empathy kind of thing. It is the desire to just make another person happy. So, with that understanding, here are my answers:

1. Loving others has nothing at all to do with whether they are worthy of your love or not. Doing good for others...even others who are known to be unworthy...is at the core of why love works so well. When it is given without conditions, it has a magical effect on others. And this concept is at the core of the teachings of Jesus. If you would like someone to be kind to you, it is the responsibility of the Christian to do that first for others.

2. It doesn't take the passion out of life. Rather it shifts the passion for life from something negative to something positive. The unconditional Love Jesus demonstrated to all, even His enemies, clearly did not take away His passion for life.

3. This is the crux of understanding the kind of love (agape) which Jesus was teaching. It is not particularly emotional in the first place. It is, as Jesus commanded it, simply doing for others as you would want them to do for you. ie. If you were laying in the street with a broken leg, you would want someone to protect you from further injury and call for medical help. The kind of love Jesus talked about then would have you do that same thing for someone you found laying in the street with a broken leg. Or if you like to have others hold the door open for you, you would hold the door open for others. I suppose it is really learning to have empathy for others and acting on that empathy.

Love isn't just a good idea. For a Christian it is a Commandment.

Athens said:

Michael Collum: that's one of my problems, actually... What he did for us. We human beings cause wars, we destroy the earth, and we torture and kill each other. And we're just mean to one another on an average day (it's the little torments, you know). I find it hard, if not impossible, to love or respect a God that would love us (especially THAT much, the Cross).

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The irony is that there are DIAMONDS scattered in among the COAL. Jesus told often about a man who found a TREASURE in a field ... and went and sold everything he had ... to buy the field.

Sometimes, ... to gain the TREASURE, ... you have to buy the FIELD ...

Athens said:

How would you explain sociopaths and sadists?

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I would say that these are more fallen (i.e broken) examples of humanity. Perhaps such would never desire to follow Jesus, ... similar to Satan. You could think of them as the inevitably evil off-shoots of creation, ... who were never destined to be anything more than ... examples of how NOT to be.

This could be what Paul was considering when he wrote of "vessels created for destruction" ....

Athens said:

Thank you for the well articulated reply, zephcom. Now a few points: You say love is a kind of empathy thing. So, should everyone be a disciple of Christ or only some people? If everyone should be a disciple of Christ then what do we make of people who find empathy difficult or impossible? You say it's the desire to make someone else happy, but why is their happiness my concern (especially if I dont know this person)? You can do good to other people and maybe they'll do good to you... or maybe they'll spit in your face or manipulate you for their own advantage. And finally, you said love doesn't take the passion out of life but shifts the passion from something negative to something positive. Some of my favorite moments have been when I was engaged in heated conversation with someone (or watching such a conversation). Now that's not exactly hate (necessarily), but its heat. And hate is only more heat. Furthermore, if you take away hate it may be a slippery slope. Do we desire to overcome our friends in competition as much as someone we hate? If we do away with hate, we may have to do away with competition as well.

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Before we get into the questions, note that I list myself as a Deist and not a Christian. I have a lot of respect for the teachings of Jesus but that respect does not translate into adherence for the modern religion. I mention this because my answers reflect my understanding of Jesus' teachings and the meaning of His life as presented by the authentic writings of Paul as found in the Bible.

Now the questions. No, I don't think everyone should be a follower of Jesus. Jesus taught a higher level of spirituality than the simple 'law book' level of the Jews. Not everyone is ready to move to that higher level of spirituality. In the Jewish version of spirituality, one becomes 'righteous' if one complies with a long list of rules on behavior. In Jesus' version of spirituality, one becomes 'righteous' if one complies with a single concept of behavior...Love. This higher level of spirituality requires one to be able to understand the hopes, desires and Divinity which resides in others and then to nurture that.

Why is the happiness of others your concern?? It isn't your concern unless you have chosen to follow Jesus' teachings. In John 14:23-24 Jesus said, "23 ...“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

People will respond in all sorts of ways when someone does a kindness for them. For the follower of Jesus, the kindness wasn't done to get a kindness back from the person. It was done because the follower loves Jesus and because they love Jesus, they follow His commandments. The blessing which comes from doing the kindness to others does not come from the one the kindness is done for, rather it comes from God. If you will...it is the 'treasure' one stores in the Kingdom of Heaven.

I enjoy a 'heated' discussion as much as anyone does. I learn from them. In my opinion, the important thing is to remember that the person one is having the discussion with is Loved by God just as I am and that they carry the same spark of Divinity that I do. When the discussion of over, they are still my friend and we can go have a drink and enjoy life together.

As far as competition goes, if it is sport, go for the gusto. That is the purpose of the sport, but follow the rules and don't 'trash talk'. In life, I think the meaning of Jesus' teachings is to use your own position in life to reach back, grab the hand of others and lift them up over you.

#1. In what sense are strangers worthy of my love and in what sense am I worthy of the love of a stranger?

They, and you, are creations of God. Beautifully intricate little miracles, made in His image and likeness. Christ tells us that whatever we do to one of these people, that thing has been done to Him. You often hear "treat others as you would like to be treated", but what He tells us is to treat others as we would treat Him.

#2. To love all people would basically make it so that you don't have any enemies at all. Your enemy may hate you from his perspective and be your enemy, but from your perspective you have no enemies. How will that not take passion out of life? There's passion in hate just as there's passion in love.

There are ways of using our sensual abilities which bring us closer to God, and ways which turn us farther away from Him. We were created to participate in the former way, and that is where we find lasting contentment and fulfillment. The latter is a cheap knock-off, a misuse of our capabilities. The correct use of the passions fills us, the incorrect devours us. This is true not only with feelings like love and hate, but of all things pertaining to the human life. Think of food - if we eat nutritious things in moderate amounts we are healthy and satisfied, but if we eat only junk foods and either too much or not enough, we are unhealthy, obese or frail, prone to myriad illnesses. If we eat items we ought not to eat, things like rocks, plastics, chemicals, we will perish.

Though our human abilities are such that we can find a multitude of ways to use them, some ways are good for us and others are not. That we gain a new sensation from using them in a new way does not automatically mean we ought to seek this out for the sake of having that sensation. We do not (generally) seek out the sensation of being poisoned, contracting painful and deadly viruses, serious bodily injury, depression, grief, shame, embarrassment, etc. just because these things are available to us... The absence of these things, or the opposite of them, is generally thought to be preferable. So why ought we seek hatred just for the experience, when there is a joyful and fulfilling alternative?

#3. Imagine someone who has no strong feelings. He may feel in some sense strongly when he reads books on philosophy or poetry or when he engages someone in passionate rhetoric, but he feels no strong ties of emotional connection with anyone. How can such a person love in any meaningful or Christian way?

I imagine this sensation is not uncommon, though there are various degrees. For some, they feel strong connections only with those few people closest to them. For others, the feeling are only for themselves. For others, the emotional connections are with animals rather than people. For perhaps many, the connections are to things; a job, a hobby, wealth, an ideology, etc. Where your treasure is, there your heart will be. Whatever or whoever it is that you value above all else, that you strive towards, that you sacrifice for, that is where you will have these connections.

I would say that for the vast majority of people, this connection is not with God, or with all of humanity, or with even most of humanity. Perhaps there are rare souls who love as they ought to, but for most of us it is something we need to practice and try to learn how to do. A good starting point is to make an effort to pray for other people, to desire good things for them, to have a good mental disposition towards them. And then, we return to point #1... Trying to see Christ in them, and trying to do for them as we would if Christ Himself were standing before us. If we can learn to see people this way, or if we even simply wish that we could see them this way, I think God will help us in this struggle.

that's one of my problems, actually... What he did for us. We human beings cause wars, we destroy the earth, and we torture and kill each other. And we're just mean to one another on an average day (it's the little torments, you know). I find it hard, if not impossible, to love or respect a God that would love us (especially THAT much, the Cross).

Sometimes it is more difficult to accept a thing you know you don't deserve than one you feel you've earned, isn't it? Especially when you know that the person giving it knows you're undeserving. Imagine there's a person whom you've stolen vast sums of money from, and they know that you've taken it. If they were to yell at you, beat you senseless, take back their money, or have you arrested, you'd accept this as something you've earned from them. But what if instead, they see that you have a debt which you owe and cannot afford, and they give you money to repay it? Ah, perhaps your pride will cause you to reject their offer. You'll imagine that they are trying to show how much more charitable they are than you, that they're trying to make themselves feel morally superior. Perhaps you will take it, while thinking what a fool they are. Perhaps you will think they are setting up some sort of trap so you feel indebted to them. And chances are good that where people are concerned, any number of these things are indeed true.

But what of God? He has no need to assert moral superiority over us - we already know that to be the case. He knows all things - He is no fool. He has created all things - we could be no more indebted to any being than we already are to Him simply for giving us our being. Our human reasonings and interactions hardly give us any comparable situation by which we can judge the sacrifice made on the cross. The closest I can imagine is a mother throwing herself in front of a deadly danger to save the life of a person who has just killed her child right before her eyes. And how might that murderer feel when he thinks upon her sacrifice which allowed him to keep living? Will he despise it? And should he?

I once heard the saying that the only way to love the truly broken person is to be crucified by them. Is it not true that it is often the people whom we love, that hurt us the most? Our love compels us to endure some amount of suffering which we never would put up with from someone we had no care for. We may suffer insults or hurt feelings from a friend, which we would not from a stranger. A parent will endure immense sufferings heaped on them by their own child, which they would not from any other person. How much love must there be to endure humiliation, beatings, crucifixion, and death...and to say through all of it "forgive them, for they know not what they do."? Can we ever understand that sort of love?

zephcom said:

In Jesus' version of spirituality, one becomes 'righteous' if one complies with a single concept of behavior...Love. This higher level of spirituality requires one to be able to understand the hopes, desires and Divinity which resides in others and then to nurture that.

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Part of Jesus style was to simplify what man had complicated. Love even simplifies what He simplified by putting all the laws into two commandments. It is the way of the Kingdom of God (both governance and place). But definitely not the way of man who unsimplified Jesus' teachings once again in Christianity just as the Jews had done with their religion.

timothyu said:

Love even simplifies what He simplified by putting all the laws into two commandments.

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Not apparently.

So many people choose to disobey all the commandments today,

the ten, and the two,

because they thought and were taught it was "simplified", wrongly.

timothyu said:

Part of Jesus style was to simplify what man had complicated. Love even simplifies what He simplified by putting all the laws into two commandments. It is the way of the Kingdom of God (both governance and place). But definitely not the way of man who unsimplified Jesus' teachings once again in Christianity just as the Jews had done with their religion.

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I think that is one way of looking at what Jesus did and how the religion 'undid' it. And I don't find it necessary wrong either.

But I think that in simplifying what man had complicated, He also raised the level of spirituality required of His followers. By taking away the 'check list' of things people did to qualify as righteous, He also placed onto the individual the requirement to know how to best love everyone.

People would now not be able to take out their law book and look up the proper response when dealing with others. And, incidentally, it took away the need for a religion to verify that you actually did do the things you 'checked off'.