You propagate your belief on a Faith + Works/Arminian theology.
Hi Ronald,
You quoted, in part, my response to one of your questions, as follows:
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In our English, we have words that specifically convey each of many meanings given by that one Greek word "S 5843."
Unfortunately, the Greek language does not distinguish so precisely, so we have to determine the word's meaning depending on how it is used in a sentence within the context of the Greek Scriptures .
As you noted, many Bible translations use the English word "given" in Philippians 1:29
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is "given" on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake
The word "given" carries a meaning in Phil 1:29, that is different than if I was to place the word "gave" instead of given...
"For God "gave" you, not only your faith but your suffering on behalf of Christ.
Do you see the difference?
The actual idea conveyed in Phil 1:29 is not that God is giving you faith and suffering, but that Christians are given (granted) by God to believe and also to suffer for Christ's sake.
If you disagree, that is okay. However, I base my understanding by the context given, not only in the context of Philippians 1, but also of the entire Bible. Whether the OT or NT, God does not give faith to save, but God does lovingly grant mankind to believe in Him and pleads with us to repent and to believe in Him.
Ezekiel 18 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
For instance: In Acts 11, the Apostle Peter shows the other Jewish converts to Christianity that the reason why he had to accept the Gentiles right to be saved is because, God showed him that God also granted the Gentiles repentance that leads to life, just like the Jews were. Before that time, the Jews thought only Jews could be Christians.
Acts 11:18 (NIV)
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Notice the granting by God of repentance to Gentiles is open to all Gentiles indiscriminately, not to a specific person.
Just as Prophecy declares:
Isaiah 49:6 (NIV)
6 He says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”
Lord Jesus confirms this:
John 10:16 (NIV)
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
And also again re-affirms by the Great Commission: Matthew 28:19-20
So "grant" in this sense, means that God made Jesus to be a light, not only to the Jews, but also to the Gentiles. --- Not that God is giving faith as a gift to anyone - although "gift" is one of the many meanings for this word in Greek.
God is granting faith indiscriminately to Jews and Gentiles alike by making His Son Jesus a light to the Gentiles by means of the Gospel.
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Ronald's Response:
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You propagate your belief on a Faith + Works/Arminian theology. You look at a verse that doesn't support your belief and then you dismantle it, distort it so that it can fit into your package. Such a basic word as FAITH, which God grants in proportions, you dismantle and claim it is not our faith that He is the Author of, it is a separate faith that we must mimic. WOW.
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setst RE: While looking at the full context may seem like dismantling to you, that is only because I am dismantling your biased understanding of an isolated text in which you are supplying your own meaning outside of the context of Scripture.
The Passage states that Jesus is the Author or Pioneer of Faith. This is HIS faith, not our feeble faith. We are to follow Jesus supreme example of faith to be saved, which is to deny self, as Jesus did, and take up our cross and follow Him to be saved.
Ronald quotes me as follows:
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Acts 11:18 (NIV)
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Notice the granting by God of repentance to Gentiles is open to all Gentiles indiscriminately, not to a specific person.
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Ronald RE:
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Again, deciphering a simple word like grant which means to give like a government grant to a college kid -- it's a gift, seems to be a struggle for you, it doesn't sit well for you so you resort to distort the meaning and making endless efforts to hold to your view.
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setst RE: Is God granting all Gentiles repentance or does it say God is selecting only some Gentiles? Does that mean all Gentiles will repent? No.
Ronald quotes me as follows:
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I am just stating what the Passage is saying. That verse does not say "OUR" faith, it says that Jesus is the Author or Pioneer or Chief of faith. By the command of Jesus, we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. Jesus is our pioneer, our example, whom we must follow to be saved.
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Ronald RE:
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Spiritual Faith is the Faith that comes from God and is given to us. Don't try to distort the meaning. There is a human faith, but that is not sufficient to comprehend God. We required a new program, if you will, to be downloaded in order to function. The human program of faith could not compute God, so He gave us a new program!
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setst RE: Show me the Scripture. Remember
John 3:16 and all the other saying we must put our faith in Jesus to be saved.
Ronald writes:
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"But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? Rom. 9:20
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setst RE: Potter and the Clay....
In
Jeremiah 18:2-11 (the Passage Paul used in Romans 9), God (the Potter) purposes to form into a vessel of honor only those who repent. We must repent first. READ . . .
Jeremiah 18 (WEB) Bolding mine… 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay
was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. . . 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Yahweh says:
Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you:
return you now everyone from his evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.
How a person or nation reacts in God's (Potter's) hands, will determine how God chooses to form the clay. The fact that the clay is marred in God's hands is not God's doing, because God forms everything perfectly.
Rather, the clay itself was marred, so God formed it for destruction.
God then summarizes in verse 11 - God is telling them the responsibility is on them to repent and God would reconsider the punishment He had intended against them.
Ezekiel 33:11-12 (NIV) 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’
In other words, God does not ordain good and evil, and all that occurs; rather, a Sovereign God righteously works out His will according to His omniscience and omnipotence. God’s sovereignty, glory and perfect will is being worked out in His creation in which every person is responsible for his own choices.
Jeremiah 18 is the bases for Paul’s reasoning of
Romans 9, which confirms this very thing regarding God’s Sovereignty. This reality clearly shows the indescribable depth of God’s Sovereignty, Wisdom and Foresight, which is unlike any human sovereignty in that a Sovereign God is able to work out His perfect will and plans while at the same time allowing mankind free will choices.
Same in the following verses:
2 Timothy 2 (WEB) Bolding mine… 19 However God’s firm foundation stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “
Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from unrighteousness.”
20 Now in a
large house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of clay. Some are for
honor, and some for
dishonor. 21
If anyone therefore cleanses himself from latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, and suitable for the master’s use, prepared for every good work.
God forms a vessel into something honorable and sanctified but only if they cleanse themselves.
So, God, as the Potter, chooses to have mercy on those who repent, and chooses to harden those who obstinately keep refusing His grace. That is why Paul, at the end of Romans 9, sums up why God had punished Israel – because they pursued righteousness not by faith but by works. This is actually how Scripture itself teaches us regarding God’s Sovereignty from Genesis to Revelation.
In this way, a Sovereign and Holy God remains an impartial and righteous judge who genuinely loves righteousness and genuinely hates sin, rather than a God of Calvinism who forms people for damnation and others for salvation, which would make God responsible for all the good and evil in the world. As we have seen, by one of Calvinist’s strongest proof texts, Romans 9, this is, thankfully, not the case.