LDS Joseph Smith Said No God in Heaven Except With Flesh & Bones

mmksparbud

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Good question, but apparently they were not formed.

(Old Testament | Zechariah 12:1)

1 THE burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 44:24)

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

If we were His real, natural children, we would have been born as He was--which according to you, was
flesh and bone.
 
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Good question, but apparently they were not formed.

(Old Testament | Zechariah 12:1)

1 THE burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 44:24)

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Do we agree this is Jehovah talking ?
 
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Rescued One

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The bold seems to imply omniscience rather than omnipresence. Do Mormons believe all of the gods are made out of this fine matter and not just the holy Spirit?

As to where he is. No idea. Presumably in heaven near Heavenly Father and Jesus? I think the bigger question is, why does there need to be a Holy Spirit at all?

But if he's in heaven it contradicts: "There is no other God in heaven but that God who has flesh and bones."

The LDS Heavenly Father and Jesus have resurrected glorified bodies with parts and passions --- whatever they mean by that. The Holy Ghost has only a spirit body; Satan has only a spirit body.
 
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He is the way

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Book chapter and verse using The Bible or Book of Mormon
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes and do we agree that He used the word formed?

You don't know His power.
Psa_33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
 
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Peter1000

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It wasn't.

The Greek text is pneuma ho Theos, it uses the definite article in reference to Theos, "God". Greek doesn't have an indefinite article, and so its inclusion in translation is up to translators, either for ease of reading or interpetation.

A word-for-word translation of this phrase would be "spirit the God", that doesn't make any sense in English; so grammatically it's "the God [is] spirit". In English we usually ignore the definite article with proper nouns, so "the God" simply becomes "God", since "God" is is a proper noun in English making the definite article superfluous. Including or excluding the indefinite article can potentially change the nuance of the text, and so whether to include it or exclude it in the translation is up to translator's interpretation and discretion.

Arguing in favor of its exclusion is a case I would make based on context, the context is the dispute between Samaritanism and Judaism on which mountain is sacred, and thus which temple is valid. Jesus' point is God's boundlessness, God is not found "here" or "there", because God is everywhere. The point is God's incoporeality. Thus "God is spirit" better serves to underscore that point. Whereas "God is a spirit" could suggest something else entirely, that there is some sort of class called "spirits" of which God is a member; but such thinking has no basis in biblical thought. As God is a "class" unto His own, as He declares, "I alone am God and there is no other." The ineffable, incomprehensible, and unimaginable reality of God's Essence speaks of His absolute otherness and transcendence from all conceivable things. In other words, it is impossible to say what God is in any absolute sense beyond that God is God. He is what He is, as He said to Moses, "I am that I am".

-CryptoLutheran
Thank you for that excellent information, and I would believe you if I did not think God was something else than just spirit. We believe He is of a special class of species. A class that has enough intelligence to comprehend all things, even to be able to create, and do all the things that a god does.

I believe that He has created us in His image and likeness (and His species) because our intelligence's are of the highest order as His. It just has to finally receive all that He knows and then we too can be gods like Him. If we sit on his throne with Him for millions of years, do you think we can come to know what He knows?

I believe as adopted sons and daughters we, through our adoption can become just like him, just like an adopted son or daughter are heirs of all that their adopted parents have. Same thing.
Only it goes deeper than that with us and God our Father.

As the scriptures say, as children we are heirs, joint heirs with Jesus of all that the Father has.
Omniscience is one of His attributes that we can finally obtain as heirs. Right?

So look forward to an incredible future with God and Jesus. As He says:
Eye hath not seen,
nor ear heard,
neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
 
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Peter1000

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You don't know His power.
Psa_33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Yes, you have quoted that often, and we believe that to be true. Just like when Pharaoh, by his word, the pyramids were created. Only God commands the elements, and they obey Him. So you ask, what came first, the elements or God. That question is not answerable from the scriptures, but we do know that the elements do obey God, so we know He is superior, and above all.
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes, you have quoted that often, and we believe that to be true. Just like when Pharaoh, by his word, the pyramids were created. Only God commands the elements, and they obey Him. So you ask, what came first, the elements or God. That question is not answerable from the scriptures, but we do know that the elements do obey God, so we know He is superior, and above all.

God made the elements, God made the earth that man was formed from---God created all things---that means all. Nobody else created anything for Him to create out of!
 
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Peter1000

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God made the elements, God made the earth that man was formed from---God created all things---that means all. Nobody else created anything for Him to create out of!
God created the earth from the elements. Where in the scriptures does it say that God created the elements?
 
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mmksparbud

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God created the earth from the elements. Where in the scriptures does it say that God created the elements?


It plainly says Jesus created everything--you've been shown that countless times!! You still prefer the lies of JS to the plainly written word of God.
oh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 
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Peter1000

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It plainly says Jesus created everything--you've been shown that countless times!! You still prefer the lies of JS to the plainly written word of God.
oh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Is 'made' the same as 'created all out of nothing'?
 
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mmksparbud

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Is 'made' the same as 'created all out of nothing'?

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
All things is pretty clear. I know you have a problem with that and want to turn it into something else to make it jive with JS.
 
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He is the way

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You don't know His power.
Psa_33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
(Old Testament | Psalms 90:2)

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

(Old Testament | Psalms 95:5)

5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.

(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 37:26)

26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:7)

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
 
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Yes, you have quoted that often, and we believe that to be true. Just like when Pharaoh, by his word, the pyramids were created. Only God commands the elements, and they obey Him. So you ask, what came first, the elements or God. That question is not answerable from the scriptures, but we do know that the elements do obey God, so we know He is superior, and above all.

God was Eternal [ God the Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit ] and then he created the elements
 
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mmksparbud

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(Old Testament | Psalms 90:2)

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

(Old Testament | Psalms 95:5)

5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.

(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 37:26)

26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:7)

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.


So what???? What has formed got to do with it???---Life is not given until His breath is given. Animate or inanimate--His voice creates, His hands form. He gave presence of the elements with His breath, His voice. He gave life to what He formed with His breath---it's all right there---so sorry neither JS nor you guys can see it. It takes the real Holy Spirit to understand a little about how awesome our God is. And Yes, like it says, He formed it to be inhabited----Adam and Eve would have had children even if they had not fallen!
 
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He is the way

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So what???? What has formed got to do with it???---Life is not given until His breath is given. Animate or inanimate--His voice creates, His hands form. He gave presence of the elements with His breath, His voice. He gave life to what He formed with His breath---it's all right there---so sorry neither JS nor you guys can see it. It takes the real Holy Spirit to understand a little about how awesome our God is. And Yes, like it says, He formed it to be inhabited----Adam and Eve would have had children even if they had not fallen!
God formed the world.

(Old Testament | Psalms 90:2)

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
 
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mmksparbud

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God formed the world.

(Old Testament | Psalms 90:2)

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.


OK---tell you what, for the next year, You can read my previous post, I will read this one---you can read my previous post, I will read this one...…....Not my fault the Holy Spirit can not get through to you!
 
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