Amillenialism and the nation of Israel

Grip Docility

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Who are these people that the Bible says exist on earth, just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, in that eternal age:

Revelation 22:15
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

And who are the thirsty people in that eternal age that the spirit is calling to outside the gates to come and drink of the water of life? Saved people aren't thirsty, for One drink ye shall never thirst again:

Revelation 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

And in this eternal state of Rest, where all has been made anew, brought back to the perfection that existed before the fall, why are the nations STILL in need of perpetual healing?

Revelation 22:2
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.



Don't you have to be actively shedding tears first for them to be "wiped away"?

And what about tears of Joy? will we be not allowed to shed tears of Joy there?

Will it be some sort of "Zoloft" type eternal existence... not too high, not too low... just even keel?

It says he will wipe away all tears. That’s one of the most known verses in Revelation.

Wouldn’t it be wise to know that Revelation 21:4 is saying before you make fun of it?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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What is the religion of the government of Israel?

If you study up, you will know, immediately.
Babylonian Talmudic Judaism I think..........

Jhn 4:21
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Rev 17:5
And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.”

Talmud - Wikipedia

The term "Talmud" normally refers to the collection of writings named specifically the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli), although there is also an earlier collection known as the Jerusalem Talmud (Talmud Yerushalmi).[5] It may also traditionally be called Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, or the "six orders" of the Mishnah.

Babylonian and Jerusalem
The process of "Gemara" proceeded in what were then the two major centers of Jewish scholarship, Galilee and Babylonia. Correspondingly, two bodies of analysis developed, and two works of Talmud were created. The older compilation is called the Jerusalem Talmud or the Talmud Yerushalmi. It was compiled in the 4th century in Galilee. The Babylonian Talmud was compiled about the year 500, although it continued to be edited later. The word "Talmud", when used without qualification, usually refers to the Babylonian Talmud.

While the editors of Jerusalem Talmud and Babylonian Talmud each mention the other community, most scholars believe these documents were written independently; Louis Jacobs writes, "If the editors of either had had access to an actual text of the other, it is inconceivable that they would not have mentioned this. Here the argument from silence is very convincing."[6]
==========================================
Religion in Israel - Wikipedia

Religion in Israel is a central feature of the country and plays a major role in shaping Israeli culture and lifestyle. Religion has played a central role in Israel's history. Israel is also the only country in the world where a majority of citizens are Jewish. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, the population in 2011 was 75.4% Jewish, 20.6% Arab, and 4.1% minority groups.[2] The religious affiliation of the Israeli population as of 2016[1] was 74.7% Jewish, 17.7% Muslim, 2.0% Christian, and 1.6% Druze, with the remaining 4.1% including faiths such as Samaritanism and Baha'iism, and irreligious people with no faith.[3][4]

Israel does not have a constitution. While the Basic Laws of Israel that serve in place of a constitution define the country as a "Jewish state", these Basic Laws, coupled with Knesset statutes, decisions of the Supreme Court of Israel, and various elements of the common law current in Israel, offer some protection for free practice of religion in the country.[5][6]

Pew Research Center has identified Israel as one of the countries that places "high" restrictions on religion,[7] and there have been limits placed on non-Orthodox streams of Judaism.[8] Legal accommodation of the non-Jewish communities follows the pattern and practice of the Ottoman and British administrations, with some important modifications. Israeli law officially recognizes five religions[citation needed], all belonging to the Abrahamic family of religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druzeism, and the Bahá'í Faith. Furthermore, the law formally recognizes ten separate sects of Christianity: the Roman, Armenian, Maronite, Greek, Syriac, and Chaldean Catholic Churches; the Eastern Orthodox Greek Orthodox Church; the Oriental Orthodox Syriac Orthodox Church; the Armenian Apostolic Church; and Anglicanism.[9][10] Relations among religious groups—between Jews and non-Jews, between Muslims and Christians, and among the different streams of Judaism, such as Orthodox, Reform and Conservative—are often strained.[5]
==============================================
Israeli citizenship law - Wikipedia

Israeli citizenship law
(Hebrew: חוק האזרחות הישראלית‎) regulates who are and can become citizens of Israel.

The law rests on two statutes; the Law of Return enacted in 1950, allowing every Jew to immigrate to Israel, and the Citizenship act of 1952 that defines how Israeli nationality could be acquired and lost. The Law of Return has since been amended twice and the Citizenship act 13 times.[1]

The primary principles of Israeli citizenship is jus sanguinis (citizenship by descent) for Jews and jus soli (citizenship by place of birth) for others.[2]

Apart from citizenship, there is another civil status which can be held by residents of Israel; the permanent residency status (Hebrew: תושב קבע‬‎ toshav keva). It is most common among Syrian citizens of the Golan Heights and among Arab East Jerusalem residents, but it occurs also among other non-citizens.

Legal definition of Jew

Main article: Who is a Jew?
While the law of Return allowed every Jew to immigrate to Israel, it did not define "Who is a Jew?" which brought on some legal issues such as the case of Rufeisen v Minister of the Interior in 1962. Oswald Rufeisen was a Polish Jew who had converted to Catholicism and sought to immigrate to Israel. The Supreme Court ruled that by converting to another religion he had forfeited his right to return. This decision of the court would make its way into the second amendment of the Law of Return in 1970 in which "Jew" was defined:

4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.
This interpretation differs from Jewish religious law, halakha in which a person born Jewish and a member of another religion would be considered a Jew.
================================
Law of Return - Wikipedia

Jewish ancestry amendment
The Law of Return was amended in 1970 to extend the right of return to some non-Jews.[8][9] Amendment number 2, 4a, states:

The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law, 5712-1952***, as well as the rights of an oleh under any other enactment, are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew, except for a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his/her religion.[10]

The law since 1970 applies to the following groups:
  • Those born Jews according to the orthodox interpretation; having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother.
  • Those with Jewish ancestry - having a Jewish father or grandfather.
  • Converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).
  • But Jews who have converted to another religion are not eligible to immigrate under the Law of Return, even though are still Jews according to halakha.
The 1970 amendment was induced by the debate on "Who is a Jew?". Until then the law did not refer to the question. There are several explanations for the decision to be so inclusive. One is that as the Nuremberg Laws did not use a halakhic definition in its definition of "Who is a Jew", the Law of Return definition for citizenship eligibility is not halakhic either. Another explanation is the 1968 wave of immigration from Poland, following an antisemitic campaign by the government. These immigrants were very assimilated and had many non-Jewish family members.[11]

A second explanation is that in order to increase immigration levels so as to offset the "demographic threat" posed by the growth of the Arab population, the law expanded the base group of those eligible to immigrate to Israel.[12]

A third explanation promoted by religious Jews is that the overwhelmingly secular leadership in Israel sought to undermine the influence of religious elements in Israeli politics and society by allowing more secular Jews and their non-Jewish spouses to immigrate.[13]

The Israeli Rabbinate is a purely Orthodox body that is far more strict in defining 'who is a Jew'. This creates a situation in which thousands of immigrants who are eligible for citizenship under the Law of Return's criteria, are ineligible for Jewish marriage by the Israeli Rabbinate.[14]

As of 2008, 2,734,245 Jews have immigrated to Israel since 1950.[15] Hundreds of thousands of people who do not have Jewish status under Orthodox Jewish interpretations of Halacha received Israeli citizenship, as the law confers citizenship to all offspring of a Jew (including grandchildren) and their spouses
=====================================
History of God's Holy Bible and the so-called Jews

The Etymology of the Word "Jew"

In his classic Facts are Facts, Jewish historian, researcher and scholar Benjamin Freedman writes:

Jesus is referred as a so-called "Jew" for the first time in the New Testament in the 18th century. Jesus is first referred to as a so-called "Jew" in the revised 18th century editions in the English language of the 14th century first translations of the New Testament into English. The history of the origin of the word "Jew" in the English language leaves no doubt that the 18th century "Jew" is the 18th century contracted and corrupted English word for the 4th century Latin "Iudaeus" found in St. Jerome's Vulgate Edition. Of that there is no longer doubt.

What is a Jew?

Speaking to His elect Church Jesus said, "I know your affliction and your poverty, but you have heavenly riches, and I know the blasphemy of them who say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan . . . Take note, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, but are impostors who lie, to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you" (Revelation 2:9; 3:9).

Speaking to the so-called Jews who were of the sect of the Pharisees (or Judaism) Jesus said, "You serpents, offspring of vipers, how can you escape being sentenced to hell fire? Therefore take notice, I will send you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify; and some of whom you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has been shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I assure you, all these things shall come upon this race" (Matthew 23:33-36).

Jesus identified these so-called Jews as the descendants of Cain.

Speaking to Cain God said, "What have you done? the voice of your brother's blood cries to Me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened her mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand" (Genesis 4:10-11).
 
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Grip Docility

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Babylonian Talmudic Judaism I think..........

Jhn 4:21
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Rev 17:5
And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.”

Talmud - Wikipedia

The term "Talmud" normally refers to the collection of writings named specifically the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli), although there is also an earlier collection known as the Jerusalem Talmud (Talmud Yerushalmi).[5] It may also traditionally be called Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, or the "six orders" of the Mishnah.

Babylonian and Jerusalem
The process of "Gemara" proceeded in what were then the two major centers of Jewish scholarship, Galilee and Babylonia. Correspondingly, two bodies of analysis developed, and two works of Talmud were created. The older compilation is called the Jerusalem Talmud or the Talmud Yerushalmi. It was compiled in the 4th century in Galilee. The Babylonian Talmud was compiled about the year 500, although it continued to be edited later. The word "Talmud", when used without qualification, usually refers to the Babylonian Talmud.

While the editors of Jerusalem Talmud and Babylonian Talmud each mention the other community, most scholars believe these documents were written independently; Louis Jacobs writes, "If the editors of either had had access to an actual text of the other, it is inconceivable that they would not have mentioned this. Here the argument from silence is very convincing."[6]
==========================================
Religion in Israel - Wikipedia

Religion in Israel is a central feature of the country and plays a major role in shaping Israeli culture and lifestyle. Religion has played a central role in Israel's history. Israel is also the only country in the world where a majority of citizens are Jewish. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, the population in 2011 was 75.4% Jewish, 20.6% Arab, and 4.1% minority groups.[2] The religious affiliation of the Israeli population as of 2016[1] was 74.7% Jewish, 17.7% Muslim, 2.0% Christian, and 1.6% Druze, with the remaining 4.1% including faiths such as Samaritanism and Baha'iism, and irreligious people with no faith.[3][4]

Israel does not have a constitution. While the Basic Laws of Israel that serve in place of a constitution define the country as a "Jewish state", these Basic Laws, coupled with Knesset statutes, decisions of the Supreme Court of Israel, and various elements of the common law current in Israel, offer some protection for free practice of religion in the country.[5][6] Pew Research Center has identified Israel as one of the countries that places "high" restrictions on religion,[7] and there have been limits placed on non-Orthodox streams of Judaism.[8] Legal accommodation of the non-Jewish communities follows the pattern and practice of the Ottoman and British administrations, with some important modifications. Israeli law officially recognizes five religions[citation needed], all belonging to the Abrahamic family of religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druzeism, and the Bahá'í Faith. Furthermore, the law formally recognizes ten separate sects of Christianity: the Roman, Armenian, Maronite, Greek, Syriac, and Chaldean Catholic Churches; the Eastern Orthodox Greek Orthodox Church; the Oriental Orthodox Syriac Orthodox Church; the Armenian Apostolic Church; and Anglicanism.[9][10] Relations among religious groups—between Jews and non-Jews, between Muslims and Christians, and among the different streams of Judaism, such as Orthodox, Reform and Conservative—are often strained.[5]
==============================================
Israeli citizenship law - Wikipedia

Israeli citizenship law
(Hebrew: חוק האזרחות הישראלית‎) regulates who are and can become citizens of Israel.

The law rests on two statutes; the Law of Return enacted in 1950, allowing every Jew to immigrate to Israel, and the Citizenship act of 1952 that defines how Israeli nationality could be acquired and lost. The Law of Return has since been amended twice and the Citizenship act 13 times.[1]

The primary principles of Israeli citizenship is jus sanguinis (citizenship by descent) for Jews and jus soli (citizenship by place of birth) for others.[2]

Apart from citizenship, there is another civil status which can be held by residents of Israel; the permanent residency status (Hebrew: תושב קבע‬‎ toshav keva). It is most common among Syrian citizens of the Golan Heights and among Arab East Jerusalem residents, but it occurs also among other non-citizens.

Legal definition of Jew

Main article: Who is a Jew?
While the law of Return allowed every Jew to immigrate to Israel, it did not define "Who is a Jew?" which brought on some legal issues such as the case of Rufeisen v Minister of the Interior in 1962. Oswald Rufeisen was a Polish Jew who had converted to Catholicism and sought to immigrate to Israel. The Supreme Court ruled that by converting to another religion he had forfeited his right to return. This decision of the court would make its way into the second amendment of the Law of Return in 1970 in which "Jew" was defined:

4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.
This interpretation differs from Jewish religious law, halakha in which a person born Jewish and a member of another religion would be considered a Jew.
================================
Law of Return - Wikipedia

Jewish ancestry amendment
The Law of Return was amended in 1970 to extend the right of return to some non-Jews.[8][9] Amendment number 2, 4a, states:

The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law, 5712-1952***, as well as the rights of an oleh under any other enactment, are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew, except for a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his/her religion.[10]

The law since 1970 applies to the following groups:
  • Those born Jews according to the orthodox interpretation; having a Jewish mother or maternal grandmother.
  • Those with Jewish ancestry - having a Jewish father or grandfather.
  • Converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations—not secular—though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).
  • But Jews who have converted to another religion are not eligible to immigrate under the Law of Return, even though are still Jews according to halakha.
The 1970 amendment was induced by the debate on "Who is a Jew?". Until then the law did not refer to the question. There are several explanations for the decision to be so inclusive. One is that as the Nuremberg Laws did not use a halakhic definition in its definition of "Who is a Jew", the Law of Return definition for citizenship eligibility is not halakhic either. Another explanation is the 1968 wave of immigration from Poland, following an antisemitic campaign by the government. These immigrants were very assimilated and had many non-Jewish family members.[11]

A second explanation is that in order to increase immigration levels so as to offset the "demographic threat" posed by the growth of the Arab population, the law expanded the base group of those eligible to immigrate to Israel.[12]

A third explanation promoted by religious Jews is that the overwhelmingly secular leadership in Israel sought to undermine the influence of religious elements in Israeli politics and society by allowing more secular Jews and their non-Jewish spouses to immigrate.[13]

The Israeli Rabbinate is a purely Orthodox body that is far more strict in defining 'who is a Jew'. This creates a situation in which thousands of immigrants who are eligible for citizenship under the Law of Return's criteria, are ineligible for Jewish marriage by the Israeli Rabbinate.[14]

As of 2008, 2,734,245 Jews have immigrated to Israel since 1950.[15] Hundreds of thousands of people who do not have Jewish status under Orthodox Jewish interpretations of Halacha received Israeli citizenship, as the law confers citizenship to all offspring of a Jew (including grandchildren) and their spouses
=====================================
History of God's Holy Bible and the so-called Jews

The Etymology of the Word "Jew"

In his classic Facts are Facts, Jewish historian, researcher and scholar Benjamin Freedman writes:

Jesus is referred as a so-called "Jew" for the first time in the New Testament in the 18th century. Jesus is first referred to as a so-called "Jew" in the revised 18th century editions in the English language of the 14th century first translations of the New Testament into English. The history of the origin of the word "Jew" in the English language leaves no doubt that the 18th century "Jew" is the 18th century contracted and corrupted English word for the 4th century Latin "Iudaeus" found in St. Jerome's Vulgate Edition. Of that there is no longer doubt.

What is a Jew?

Speaking to His elect Church Jesus said, "I know your affliction and your poverty, but you have heavenly riches, and I know the blasphemy of them who say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan . . . Take note, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, but are impostors who lie, to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you" (Revelation 2:9; 3:9).

Speaking to the so-called Jews who were of the sect of the Pharisees (or Judaism) Jesus said, "You serpents, offspring of vipers, how can you escape being sentenced to hell fire? Therefore take notice, I will send you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify; and some of whom you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has been shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I assure you, all these things shall come upon this race" (Matthew 23:33-36).

Jesus identified these so-called Jews as the descendants of Cain.

Speaking to Cain God said, "What have you done? the voice of your brother's blood cries to Me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened her mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand" (Genesis 4:10-11).

^ This

Spot on

They should cast the Talmud aside! But, the Talmud accounts that attempt to vilify Jesus actually proof that He did the things the Gospel says He did.
 
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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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It is indeed Judaism. Look at the requirements to become a citizen and how By controversy alone they have been loosened.
I don't see anything in the citizenship process that suggests religion being a factor? In fact, it states that religion is not a consideration. Do you have something that shows this has changed?

Israel's Nationality Law relates to persons born in Israel or resident therein, as well as to those wishing to settle in the country, regardless of race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. Citizenship may be acquired by:

  • Birth
  • The Law of Return
  • Residence
  • Naturalization
 
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Grip Docility

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Tutorman

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he Preterism, whether partial, full, lite, or special, is a false doctrine. They, like the Dispensaltialisists, share the same blindnes

Good to know I'm blind and that you know all about that type of thing
 
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mkgal1

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Good to know I'm blind and that you know all about that type of thing
Right. I don't even know how a person can be a self-professed Christian and NOT a partial preterist. That would mean they're waiting for ALL prophecy fulfillment (including the birth of the Messiah/Christ and His death on a cross).

Or.....the poster isn't comprehending what preterism actually is.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Good to know I'm blind and that you know all about that type of thing
Right. I don't even know how a person can be a self-professed Christian and NOT a partial preterist. That would mean they're waiting for ALL prophecy fulfillment (including the birth of the Messiah/Christ and His death on a cross).
Or.....the poster isn't comprehending what preterism actually is.
Great post.
The birth, death and ascension of our Lord Jesus is shown in Revelation..........
Jesus' Birth, Crucifixion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension in Revelation.

Micah 5:2
2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah!
From thee to Me He cometh forth -- to become Ruler in Israel,
And His goings forth are of old, From days of antiquity/eon.
Isaiah 7:14
“Therefore Yahweh Himself will give thee a sign:
Behold! the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel
Isaiah 9:6
A Child is born to us! A Son is given to us! And He will be our ruler.
He will be called, “Wonderful Counselor,” “Mighty God,”
“Eternal Father,” “Prince of Peace.”

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth<5088> a Son, a male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.

,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Gap of time>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Matthew 1:
21 and she shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.’
Luke 2:
7 and she brought forth her Son — the first-born, and wrapped Him up, and laid Him down in the manger, because there was not for them a place in the guest-chamber.
======================================
John 19:30
When then Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "it has been finished!<5055>".
And reclining the head He gives up the spirit,

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a Son, a male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.
and caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Acts 1
9 And these things having said — they beholding —
He was taken up, and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in His going on, then behold! two Men stood by them in white apparel,


And now:

Revelation 1:18
12 And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, 14 and his head and hairs white, as if white wool — as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; 15 and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, 16 and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.

17 And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me,
‘Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the ages of the ages.

And I am having the keys of the Hades and of the Death.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Great post.
The birth, death and ascension of our Lord Jesus is shown in Revelation..........
Jesus' Birth, Crucifixion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension in Revelation.

Micah 5:2
2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah!
From thee to Me He cometh forth -- to become Ruler in Israel,
And His goings forth are of old, From days of antiquity/eon.
Isaiah 7:14
“Therefore Yahweh Himself will give thee a sign:
Behold! the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel
Isaiah 9:6
A Child is born to us! A Son is given to us! And He will be our ruler.
He will be called, “Wonderful Counselor,” “Mighty God,”
“Eternal Father,” “Prince of Peace.”

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth<5088> a Son, a male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.

,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Gap of time>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Matthew 1:
21 and she shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.’
Luke 2:
7 and she brought forth her Son — the first-born, and wrapped Him up, and laid Him down in the manger, because there was not for them a place in the guest-chamber.
======================================
John 19:30
When then Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "it has been finished!<5055>".
And reclining the head He gives up the spirit,

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a Son, a male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.
and caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Acts 1
9 And these things having said — they beholding —
He was taken up, and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in His going on, then behold! two Men stood by them in white apparel,


And now:

Revelation 1:18
12 And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, 14 and his head and hairs white, as if white wool — as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; 15 and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, 16 and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.

17 And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me,
‘Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the ages of the ages.

And I am having the keys of the Hades and of the Death.
Rev 12:5 = "Birth Pangs of Messiah" = first part of Jesus' response in Matt 24

birth pangs of the messiah don k preston - Bing video
 
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Erik Nelson

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just a quick reminder for all:

the "Kingdom of God" (eternal, has no end) is not identical to the "Millennium" (a single thousand-year age or epoch of the eternal Kingdom)

the KoG began with Christ, matures into the Millennium, and then afterwards endures Gog & Magog until Final Judgement

IDK why such a desire to "conflate" and "telescope" the two terms together exists, but, although they are related, they are not identically the exact same

the Millennium is just one part / age / epoch / era / period / span of time of the KoG
 
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TribulationSigns

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Or.....the poster isn't comprehending what preterism actually is.

Lol. Oh, yes I do. I have been teaching against preterism for many years.

Preterism holds that the time of Jesus' second coming (Greek: parousia) was A.D. 70. The second coming of Jesus was the destruction of Jerusalem in that year. Preterism holds that the second coming of Christ promised in Scripture was exclusively the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. A.D. 70 was the end of the ages prophesied by Scripture. Christ came then; the dead were raised then; the final judgment took place then; creation was renewed then.

To expect a visible, bodily coming of Jesus, a resurrection of the dead, a final judgment, and a cataclysmic destruction of the present creation in the future on the basis of any prophecy of Scripture is mistaken. All is past.

Hence, "preterism." The term itself derives from a Latin word meaning 'past.'

Basic to the heresy is its interpretation of Matthew 24 as referring exclusively to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The preterist insists that verse 34 is decisive for this interpretation: "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Preterism also makes much of the fact that Scripture teaches that Jesus' coming is "near," or "at hand." Explaining this "nearness" in terms of a very brief period of time according to man's standards, preterism concludes that the New Testament predicted the coming of Christ within 40 years at the most. This prediction was fulfilled in A.D. 70. It was completely and exhaustively fulfilled in A.D. 70.

Heresy indeed.
 
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Tutorman

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Lol. Oh, yes I do. I have been teaching against preterism for many years.

Preterism holds that the time of Jesus' second coming (Greek: parousia) was A.D. 70. The second coming of Jesus was the destruction of Jerusalem in that year. Preterism holds that the second coming of Christ promised in Scripture was exclusively the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. A.D. 70 was the end of the ages prophesied by Scripture. Christ came then; the dead were raised then; the final judgment took place then; creation was renewed then.

To expect a visible, bodily coming of Jesus, a resurrection of the dead, a final judgment, and a cataclysmic destruction of the present creation in the future on the basis of any prophecy of Scripture is mistaken. All is past.

Hence, "preterism." The term itself derives from a Latin word meaning 'past.'

Basic to the heresy is its interpretation of Matthew 24 as referring exclusively to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The preterist insists that verse 34 is decisive for this interpretation: "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Preterism also makes much of the fact that Scripture teaches that Jesus' coming is "near," or "at hand." Explaining this "nearness" in terms of a very brief period of time according to man's standards, preterism concludes that the New Testament predicted the coming of Christ within 40 years at the most. This prediction was fulfilled in A.D. 70. It was completely and exhaustively fulfilled in A.D. 70.

Heresy indeed.

Full but not all preterism, just like some evangelicals aren't insanely ocd about Revelations being future
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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mkgal1 said:
Or.....the poster isn't comprehending what preterism actually is.
Lol. Oh, yes I do. I have been teaching against preterism for many years.

Preterism holds that the time of Jesus' second coming (Greek: parousia) was A.D. 70. The second coming of Jesus was the destruction of Jerusalem in that year. Preterism holds that the second coming of Christ promised in Scripture was exclusively the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. A.D. 70 was the end of the ages prophesied by Scripture. Christ came then; the dead were raised then; the final judgment took place then; creation was renewed then.

To expect a visible, bodily coming of Jesus, a resurrection of the dead, a final judgment, and a cataclysmic destruction of the present creation in the future on the basis of any prophecy of Scripture is mistaken. All is past.

Hence, "preterism." The term itself derives from a Latin word meaning 'past.'

Basic to the heresy is its interpretation of Matthew 24 as referring exclusively to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The preterist insists that verse 34 is decisive for this interpretation: "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Preterism also makes much of the fact that Scripture teaches that Jesus' coming is "near," or "at hand." Explaining this "nearness" in terms of a very brief period of time according to man's standards, preterism concludes that the New Testament predicted the coming of Christ within 40 years at the most. This prediction was fulfilled in A.D. 70. It was completely and exhaustively fulfilled in A.D. 70.

Heresy indeed.
Full but not all preterism, just like some evangelicals aren't insanely ocd about Revelations being future
Agree........
Or some believing all of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation are still ALL FUTURE.
Now I would view that as heresy........

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

1 Peter 4:7
7 Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>, be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

Rev 2:26 “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end<5056>, to him I will give power over the nations—

How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

Current Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled
08/28/13

I view all of it fulfilled 37 24.18%

I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled 62 40.52%

I view it as none of it is fulfilled 21 13.73%
===============================
How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled (2)

View Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled

I view all of it fulfilled 39 24.38%

I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled 66 41.25%

I view it as none of it is fulfilled 22 13.75%

I don't really know 15 9.38%

Other [please explain] 18 11.25%
 
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Erik Nelson

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Lol. Oh, yes I do. I have been teaching against preterism for many years.

Preterism holds that the time of Jesus' second coming (Greek: parousia) was A.D. 70. The second coming of Jesus was the destruction of Jerusalem in that year. Preterism holds that the second coming of Christ promised in Scripture was exclusively the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. A.D. 70 was the end of the ages prophesied by Scripture. Christ came then; the dead were raised then; the final judgment took place then; creation was renewed then.

To expect a visible, bodily coming of Jesus, a resurrection of the dead, a final judgment, and a cataclysmic destruction of the present creation in the future on the basis of any prophecy of Scripture is mistaken. All is past.

Hence, "preterism." The term itself derives from a Latin word meaning 'past.'

Basic to the heresy is its interpretation of Matthew 24 as referring exclusively to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The preterist insists that verse 34 is decisive for this interpretation: "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Preterism also makes much of the fact that Scripture teaches that Jesus' coming is "near," or "at hand." Explaining this "nearness" in terms of a very brief period of time according to man's standards, preterism concludes that the New Testament predicted the coming of Christ within 40 years at the most. This prediction was fulfilled in A.D. 70. It was completely and exhaustively fulfilled in A.D. 70.

Heresy indeed.
the "Parousia" is not necessarily the full-fledged End-of-Earth-Time 2nd Coming

70 AD fully revealed and "proved" Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God in heaven, as both the Temple Priests & dynasty of Julius Caesar, who together had Crucified Christ, were both judged (temple destroyed, Nero the last of Caesar's line committed suicide)

I think you can separate the "Parousia" in 70 AD, per Preterists, from the full 2C, per Tradition
 
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Erik Nelson

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Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

1 Peter 4:7
7 Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>, be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

Rev 2:26 “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end<5056>, to him I will give power over the nations—

How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

Current Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled
08/28/13

I view all of it fulfilled 37 24.18%

I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled 62 40.52%

I view it as none of it is fulfilled 21 13.73%
===============================
How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled (2)

View Poll Results: Amount of Matt 24 fulfilled

I view all of it fulfilled 39 24.38%

I view it as mostly/partially fulfilled 66 41.25%

I view it as none of it is fulfilled 22 13.75%

I don't really know 15 9.38%

Other [please explain] 18 11.25%
Those OD references = Birth Pangs of the Messiah = Revelation 12:5

The "Harrowing of Hell" of Christ descending to Abraham's Bosom (Luke 16) = Paradise (Luke 22) = Limbo (Latin) = Erebus (Greek), in order to resurrect the OT righteous saints, satisfied the prophesied Resurrection of Daniel 12:2
 
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mkgal1

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70 AD fully revealed and "proved" Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God in heaven, as both the Temple Priests & dynasty of Julius Caesar, who together had Crucified Christ, were both judged (temple destroyed, Nero the last of Caesar's line committed suicide)
What makes sense to me is that His Ascension was Him being seated at the right hand of the Father - and the Parousia was when Jesus took His rightful throne of David (in 70 AD). Based mostly on this:


For David himself, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until I humble your enemies beneath your feet.’ - (Psalm 110; Mark 12:36; Matthew 22:24)
 
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Erik Nelson

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What makes sense to me is that His Ascension was Him being seated at the right hand of the Father - and the Parousia was when Jesus took His rightful throne of David (in 70 AD). Based mostly on this:


For David himself, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until I humble your enemies beneath your feet.’ - (Psalm 110; Mark 12:36; Matthew 22:24)
wow, awesome insight !
 
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jgr

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No, ALL Preterism is wrong. Full, partial, etc. Because there is NO prophecy in the Bible related to 70AD. Period. Not even your interpretation of "generation" is biblically accurate. And you guys got all Olivet Discourse wrong, as well as trying to apply the books of Daniel and Revelation to 70AD.

Your Bro. Warren's exposition regarding Matthew 24:34 in the supplied link is flawed, beginning with his citation of Matthew 1:1:


Matthew 24:34 generation
1074 [e]
genea
γενεὰ
generation
N-NFS

1074. genea
3.
the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); ; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γενεάς ταύτης, Luke 11:31; τήν δέ γενεάν αὐτοῦτίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 the Sept.) (but cf. Meyer, at the passage).


Matthew 1:1 generation
1078 [e]
geneseōs
γενέσεως
of [the] genealogy
N-GFS

1078. genesis
1.
source, origin: βίβλος γενέσεως τίνος a book of one's lineage, i. e. in which his ancestry or his progeny are enumerated (equivalent to תּולְדותסֵפֶר, Genesis 5:1, etc.) (Matthew 1:1).


"Generation" in Matthew 24:34 is manifestly different from "generation" (literally translated "genealogy") in Matthew 1:1.

The two cannot be equated.

Matthew 24:34 unquestionably relates to the generation, those living at that time, who would suffer the judgments of 70 AD.
 
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@Grip Docility do you believe Jesus is now sitting on His rightful throne - the throne of David as promised?

Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. "And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end." (Lu 1:30-33)​

Per Galatians 4, we know there is a specifically distinguished difference between (Jerusalem Above) and (Jerusalem Below).

Per Revelation 4:2, we see where God is seated. Heaven.

Per Revelation 2:13, we see Satan has a throne. For the record, the location correlates with “Present day Turkey”.

Per Revelation 1, we know all eyes will witness Christ’s return, thus... biblically, it is incorrect to say (Jerusalem Above) is Christ’s Kingship over the earth.

Thusly, we know He, Jesus, is set up on the Throne in (The Jerusalem Above).

A funny point, Satan is currently claiming Earth as his kingdom, and death still reigns on earth, but humorously, God has His feet on Earth like it is a footstool, in scripture.

16613.gif


306abbec6bddf70a473482719ec93ab4.jpg



Satan’s “kingdom” that is perishing is merely God’s footstool.
 
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