Do the “dead say Yes?”

redleghunter said:

Yes the spiritually dead according to Ephesians 2 act according to their nature and are enemies of God. Until God makes them alive together with Christ.

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A soldier of satan will at times see where he/she is heading and can at those time decide to continue to fight on, be macho, pay the piper and be willing to accept the punishment he/she fully deserves or they can wimp out, give up and surrender to their enemy even though they still hate their enemy, but are just willing to take pure charity from their enemy. That willingness to accept pure charity as charity is all God needs to shower that person with wonderful gifts including being made alive.

redleghunter said:

I'm kind of looking for a straight answer.

If we are dead who or Who makes us alive?

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We are not physically dead, but Spiritually unable to do righteous acts.
God gives life to the spiritually dead, but only to those spiritually dead who are willing to accept God's pure sacrificial charity (which includes life).

redleghunter said:

The OP passage addresses those dead in their trespasses. So spiritually dead.

Of course because those who are sons of disobedience and children of wrath are dead.



He does. But all of them? Some are not as we are told some will perish.


God makes all people alive with Christ and then only some choose Him?

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I agree “…we are told some will perish.”

I am not saying: “God makes all people alive with Christ and then only some choose Him”. But:

Those made alive were made by God.

Those made alive by God are the Spiritual dead, who wimp out, give up and surrender to their enemy while God is still their enemy just willing to accept God’s charity.

redleghunter said:

If one is spiritually dead then it is not whimping out. It is a child of wrath doing what they do.

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So spiritually alive are the wimps?

Carl Emerson said:

At the same time...

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yeah, it's like two sides of the same coin.

ViaCrucis said:

Faith precedes confession.

"Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says 'Jesus is accursed!' and no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except in the Holy Spirit." - Corinthians 12:3

The Spirit who makes us alive, grants us faith, does so through Word and Sacrament; which is why the Apostle will in Romans 10 rhetorically ask, "How can they call on Him they have never heard?" and "How can they hear unless one preaches?" And "How can one preach unless they are sent?" Therefore, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ." (Romans 10:17).

For God works through Means to create faith by the Holy Spirit, and it is the gift of faith which we have received by the working of God by the Spirit that places the confession on our lips.

-CryptoLutheran

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Right, ..."on our lips" but before we speak we have confessed as much in our spirit to God.
So in the physical sense of confession, yes faith precedes, but in the spiritual sense of confession, faith IS confession.

redleghunter said:

Does this happen before or after we are made alive in Christ?

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We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, Romans 5:2.

Since we are made alive in Christ by the grace of God; and salvation is by grace through faith: I would say that faith is the catalyst for entering into grace; and therefore faith must always come first. It is the key to the door by which we enter into the place of blessing that is called grace. And of course, Jesus is the door.

If we enter in by Him, we shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture, John 10:9.

This idea that grace comes before faith is contrary to proper evangelism.

The sinner can say, grace comes first; therefore I do not even need faith: it is unnecessary for my salvation since I can have grace apart from faith: if grace comes before faith.

Therefore the doorway by which we enter in to salvation is deterred from; the person is told that God will arbitrarily save them by His predetermined choice and that faith is not a factor in this.

Again, if grace comes before faith in salvation, then faith isn't necessary; a person can have grace apart from faith.

redleghunter said:

Does this happen before or after we are made alive in Christ?

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Does what happen ? (yes, rhetorical, for clarity)

Does it matter whether before or after, according to the verse quoted, or others ?

bling said:

Say "yes" to what?
The prodigal son in his dead state (by Jesus definition of dead) could be described as saying "yes" to going home for the possibility of some kind of undeserving life, but it might have been more of a "no" to starving to death in a pigsty.

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No where is it written that he was starving, is it ?

CORRECTION(thanks to bling's reply): LUKE 15:17 Says so. (whether literally or figuratively, no matter)
(I thought since the prodigal was "alive" and working daily, he "was not starving to death". )

Most people on earth do not starve, yet they all need to turn to Yahuweh to be saved, no matter what their life and physical conditions, right ?

redleghunter said:

You mean does it matter if we are dead but somehow come alive and respond without God?

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I don't think that was the question.
Give me a few minutes, Yahuweh Willing I will quote the verse you posted in the op.

redleghunter said:

We do that is true. Yet the text says we are dead and God makes us alive with Christ. I guess the point is can the spiritually dead exercise this access by faith without God making them alive?

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Is the person not made alive through the grace of the Lord? Since faith comes before grace, this would indicate that the spiritually dead can indeed exercise faith.

The altar is purified seven times by blood in scripture; and then whatever touches the altar is holy.

God will take even an impure or unholy faith and is able to sanctify it.

Mar 9:23, Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mar 9:24, And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

redleghunter said:

“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;”
ROMANS 10:9 NASB

Does this happen before or after we are made alive in Christ?

Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

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It's done when we are "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" for the remission of past sins.
Baptism is where our old man is killed and the new creature is reborn of God's seed.

redleghunter said:

“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;”
ROMANS 10:9 NASB
Does this happen before or after we are made alive in Christ?

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

Does what happen ? (yes, rhetorical, for clarity)

Does it matter whether before or after, according to the verse quoted, or others ?

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The verse is truth, right ? (of course, expecting no argument there)


Note that as written throughout Yahuweh's Word, few are saved.
Also, for future discussion perhaps, In the verse: the verb or tense: "will be"

along with other times it is written "will be" throughout the New Testament.