Why Hell exists and why people can end up there.

GoldenKingGaze

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For the sake of people who do not accept Jesus because they cannot accept a good God would send people to Hell, I explain my view.
The revolt among the angels in pre-history was strongly malevolent. They intended great evil for God, like a pirate action against the official captain. Hell was made for detaining the angels of death.
When the concepts and the spirits of the angels of death, or Satan lure us to agree with them, after we know right from wrong, it is possible if we then die we may go to Hell. Some people who have committed suicide have died and gone to Hell, but were revived and got a second chance and it seems they may have even if they were not revived. Not sure. The Bible says that if God would give us Jesus for our own salvation, how much more all other things. Rom 8:32.
Howard Storm testifies on youtube and in his book My Descent Into Death, about his Christian childhood, later atheism and coldness, accidental death, Hell, a word that came to him, his prayer and then meeting Jesus and being healed from all wounds. And in 1985 during his death after a sorry life review, he foresaw the fall of Communism and asked many other questions and got answers.
Nothing will ever separate us from God's love. Rom 8:35-39. But then since God is so powerful, defeated death, and we each have a guardian angel, and since Jesus paid the price for each on the cross and his blood is mighty to clean our hearts, why then do some go to Hell? I would answer by saying that they have the nature, by this time of the father of rebellion, chief the angels of death, Satan. They want to steal, or murder, or cause harm, and in the light of life, they have contempt for the light, the love, Jesus' blood, other ones there... they cannot stay.
People knowing God loves them, may think they are special, and rightly so, but that when they see a person who owed them something, they grimace and attack, condemn and threaten. But when we are forgiven, we also must forgive like he forgave us. They have Jesus' blood too, and Jesus' blood and other things from him, go forth to repay us and them, and to reconcile us in full repayment, after we forgive.
It takes time to learn the Way of Christ, of love, the correct justice or righteousness balanced with mercy. Howard Storm was not ready to enter Heaven, and back alive in hospital, found it surprising hard after such inner movement to Jesus, just to love another man with dementia in the next bed.
Character change takes time. Only the Holy Spirit enables it, from within. He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Gal 5:22. Over time, it becomes one's character. Initially by faith in Christ resurrected, we pass from justice being harsh to salvation, in receiving Christ. Jesus blood become ours and accessible, justifies one and makes the heart clean, fit to enter God's presence. And if we die after this, we go on to perfection of character and become like angels. We remain in Heaven. The key is Jesus' blood and the Holy Spirit, in the heart, like in a lock. It open us up to enter the gates of Heaven.
I believe we may pray for mercy on the dead. Jesus is the saviour of all, especially those who believe. 1 Tim 4:10. This can be contrasted with 1 Cor 1:21. Many unborn children die and many children. But they have not learned to hate and reject God and his grace. They return to God. But they still need Christ and must be perfect in love to remain in Heaven, but naturally take and fill up with grace. Many ordinary people, children and adults, even to their surprise, have seen the light in their death before resuscitation. Some even opt to return for their families. They have a new sense of hope, compassion, fearlessness, and a mission.

Please feel free to ask me anything, or to disagree, or to add things.
 
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Peter J Barban

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How much of our "knowledge" about Satan comes from the Christian religion, and how much comes from Dante, Milton and Hellzapoppin?
As a Bible teacher, I was answering a question about Satan today. I had to admit, the Bible tells us very little directly about Satan. We take little hints here and there in the Bible and weave a story around it. There is much we say, but little we "know". I suspect that God doesn't want us to major on this topic.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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As a Bible teacher, I was answering a question about Satan today. I had to admit, the Bible tells us very little directly about Satan. We take little hints here and there in the Bible and weave a story around it. There is much we say, but little we "know". I suspect that God doesn't want us to major on this topic.
I think our scholars use Sola Scriptura, and try to major on everything. To Make as complete a theology as they can.

As for what I wrote, Satan is mentioned in Genesis, Satan the murderer tempts the couple to steal from God, along the same lines as the rebellion. Satan is mentioned in Job. Satan is mentioned in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. The anointed cherub that tried to rise above God. And in the Gospel he tempts Jesus Christ. He wants his worship. Wants Jesus not to know who he is... And in the parable of the wicked tenants he says the tenants want the inheritance. So in a way this means the Pharisees and Sadducees, but what Jesus called their father, Satan, was behind it and wanted to take the inheritance from Jesus in his death on the cross and out of body experience. He would never have arisen if Satan won. Of course Jesus won, and rose.

So Satan from Sola Scriptura is what I mainly go by. But also Catholic teachings such as the Paschal mystery, and early Latin father's teachings.
 
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A_Thinker

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For the sake of people who do not accept Jesus because they cannot accept a good God would send people to Hell, I explain my view.
The revolt among the angels in pre-history was strongly malevolent. They intended great evil for God, like a pirate action against the official captain. Hell was made for detaining the angels of death.
When the concepts and the spirits of the angels of death, or Satan lure us to agree with them, after we know right from wrong, it is possible if we then die we may go to Hell. Some people who have committed suicide have died and gone to Hell, but were revived and got a second chance and it seems they may have even if they were not revived. Not sure. The Bible says that if God would give us Jesus for our own salvation, how much more all other things. Rom 8:32.
Howard Storm testifies on youtube and in his book My Descent Into Death, about his Christian childhood, later atheism and coldness, accidental death, Hell, a word that came to him, his prayer and then meeting Jesus and being healed from all wounds. And in 1985 during his death after a sorry life review, he foresaw the fall of Communism and asked many other questions and got answers.
Nothing will ever separate us from God's love. Rom 8:35-39. But then since God is so powerful, defeated death, and we each have a guardian angel, and since Jesus paid the price for each on the cross and his blood is mighty to clean our hearts, why then do some go to Hell? I would answer by saying that they have the nature, by this time of the father of rebellion, chief the angels of death, Satan. They want to steal, or murder, or cause harm, and in the light of life, they have contempt for the light, the love, Jesus' blood, other ones there... they cannot stay.
People knowing God loves them, may think they are special, and rightly so, but that when they see a person who owed them something, they grimace and attack, condemn and threaten. But when we are forgiven, we also must forgive like he forgave us. They have Jesus' blood too, and Jesus' blood and other things from him, go forth to repay us and them, and to reconcile us in full repayment, after we forgive.
It takes time to learn the Way of Christ, of love, the correct justice or righteousness balanced with mercy. Howard Storm was not ready to enter Heaven, and back alive in hospital, found it surprising hard after such inner movement to Jesus, just to love another man with dementia in the next bed.
Character change takes time. Only the Holy Spirit enables it, from within. He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Gal 5:22. Over time, it becomes one's character. Initially by faith in Christ resurrected, we pass from justice being harsh to salvation, in receiving Christ. Jesus blood become ours and accessible, justifies one and makes the heart clean, fit to enter God's presence. And if we die after this, we go on to perfection of character and become like angels. We remain in Heaven. The key is Jesus' blood and the Holy Spirit, in the heart, like in a lock. It open us up to enter the gates of Heaven.
I believe we may pray for mercy on the dead. Jesus is the saviour of all, especially those who believe. 1 Tim 4:10. This can be contrasted with 1 Cor 1:21. Many unborn children die and many children. But they have not learned to hate and reject God and his grace. They return to God. But they still need Christ and must be perfect in love to remain in Heaven, but naturally take and fill up with grace. Many ordinary people, children and adults, even to their surprise, have seen the light in their death before resuscitation. Some even opt to return for their families. They have a new sense of hope, compassion, fearlessness, and a mission.

Please feel free to ask me anything, or to disagree, or to add things.
Hell is reserved for those who'd rather not be in fellowship with God ...
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Hell is reserved for those who'd rather not be in fellowship with God ...
Yes, and why can't they change their minds and be given another chance? Who wants to stay in the fire, such as in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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As I see it, the Bible shows hell/lake of fire as eternal punishment for rebelling against God. In hell, there are no second chances, no escape.
I understand. And Jesus for one made a Way out. I am not sure if he took any others with him.

So what do you say to an unbeliever who holds from praying to Jesus because of Hell?
 
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Peter J Barban

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I understand. And Jesus for one made a Way out. I am not sure if he took any others with him.

So what do you say to an unbeliever who holds from praying to Jesus because of Hell?
I'm not clear what you mean regarding the unbeliever?
 
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A_Thinker

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I understand. And Jesus for one made a Way out. I am not sure if he took any others with him.

So what do you say to an unbeliever who holds from praying to Jesus because of Hell?
That hell is a description of our fates ... if we opt to refuse God's help.

Sort of like drowning in a pool .... where the lifeguard is reaching out his hand.

It is not so much a punishment, ... as it is a consequence ....
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I'm not clear what you mean regarding the unbeliever?
An unbeliever is a person who may have Christian parents but has not chosen to follow Jesus or say a Hindu man, who does not want to convert to Christ, because of Hell. He thinks God sounds good but the idea a loving God would create Hell and apply it to people, sending them there is not love. Love draws him, not fear.
 
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Not David

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For the sake of people who do not accept Jesus because they cannot accept a good God would send people to Hell, I explain my view.
The revolt among the angels in pre-history was strongly malevolent. They intended great evil for God, like a pirate action against the official captain. Hell was made for detaining the angels of death.
When the concepts and the spirits of the angels of death, or Satan lure us to agree with them, after we know right from wrong, it is possible if we then die we may go to Hell. Some people who have committed suicide have died and gone to Hell, but were revived and got a second chance and it seems they may have even if they were not revived. Not sure. The Bible says that if God would give us Jesus for our own salvation, how much more all other things. Rom 8:32.
Howard Storm testifies on youtube and in his book My Descent Into Death, about his Christian childhood, later atheism and coldness, accidental death, Hell, a word that came to him, his prayer and then meeting Jesus and being healed from all wounds. And in 1985 during his death after a sorry life review, he foresaw the fall of Communism and asked many other questions and got answers.
Nothing will ever separate us from God's love. Rom 8:35-39. But then since God is so powerful, defeated death, and we each have a guardian angel, and since Jesus paid the price for each on the cross and his blood is mighty to clean our hearts, why then do some go to Hell? I would answer by saying that they have the nature, by this time of the father of rebellion, chief the angels of death, Satan. They want to steal, or murder, or cause harm, and in the light of life, they have contempt for the light, the love, Jesus' blood, other ones there... they cannot stay.
People knowing God loves them, may think they are special, and rightly so, but that when they see a person who owed them something, they grimace and attack, condemn and threaten. But when we are forgiven, we also must forgive like he forgave us. They have Jesus' blood too, and Jesus' blood and other things from him, go forth to repay us and them, and to reconcile us in full repayment, after we forgive.
It takes time to learn the Way of Christ, of love, the correct justice or righteousness balanced with mercy. Howard Storm was not ready to enter Heaven, and back alive in hospital, found it surprising hard after such inner movement to Jesus, just to love another man with dementia in the next bed.
Character change takes time. Only the Holy Spirit enables it, from within. He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. Gal 5:22. Over time, it becomes one's character. Initially by faith in Christ resurrected, we pass from justice being harsh to salvation, in receiving Christ. Jesus blood become ours and accessible, justifies one and makes the heart clean, fit to enter God's presence. And if we die after this, we go on to perfection of character and become like angels. We remain in Heaven. The key is Jesus' blood and the Holy Spirit, in the heart, like in a lock. It open us up to enter the gates of Heaven.
I believe we may pray for mercy on the dead. Jesus is the saviour of all, especially those who believe. 1 Tim 4:10. This can be contrasted with 1 Cor 1:21. Many unborn children die and many children. But they have not learned to hate and reject God and his grace. They return to God. But they still need Christ and must be perfect in love to remain in Heaven, but naturally take and fill up with grace. Many ordinary people, children and adults, even to their surprise, have seen the light in their death before resuscitation. Some even opt to return for their families. They have a new sense of hope, compassion, fearlessness, and a mission.

Please feel free to ask me anything, or to disagree, or to add things.
The concept of hell is different in Orthodoxy.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2014/03/03/more-thoughts-on-hell/
 
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Peter J Barban

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An unbeliever is a person who may have Christian parents but has not chosen to follow Jesus or say a Hindu man, who does not want to convert to Christ, because of Hell. He thinks God sounds good but the idea a loving God would create Hell and apply it to people, sending them there is not love. Love draws him, not fear.
I am a firm believer that God draws people to himself. I can give accurate information but I am not responsible for making an effective sales pitch. Thus, I would heighten the unsaved person's conflict rather than softening it. Jesus, himself, did this.

Hence, I would tell him that God makes the rules whether we like it or not. We must respond to reality as it is, not as we wish it were. You can reject God's offer of mercy for any reason you like, but you will go to eternal torment if you do so.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I think to reach each heart for Christ, we need use a variety of styles, methods, persuasions. Some bow in reverence, some raise their hands in praise, some taste of God's presence and power and it immediately takes them out from any sinful relationship or from drugs, some love the wisdom in Christ, some need healing, some love the testimonies. The love of God captures the really nice ones.

Better to be led by the Spirit when to suggest receiving Christ. And different pastors have different methods, we can send their testimonies out to whoever it may appeal to.
 
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Peter J Barban

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I think to reach each heart for Christ, we need use a variety of styles, methods, persuasions. Some bow in reverence, some raise their hands in praise, some taste of God's presence and power and it immediately takes them out from any sinful relationship or from drugs, some love the wisdom in Christ, some need healing, some love the testimonies. The love of God captures the really nice ones.

Better to be led by the Spirit when to suggest receiving Christ. And different pastors have different methods, we can send their testimonies out to whoever it may appeal to.
I agree.
 
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AACJ

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As a Bible teacher, I was answering a question about Satan today. I had to admit, the Bible tells us very little directly about Satan. We take little hints here and there in the Bible and weave a story around it. There is much we say, but little we "know". I suspect that God doesn't want us to major on this topic.
My Bible says quite a lot about Satan. Why do you believe otherwise?
 
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Peter J Barban

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Is the serpent in Eden named Satan? We think so, but the text doesn't say.
We think Satan's true name is Lucifer, but text doesn't clearly say that.
We think Satan was the highest of Angels, even a heavenly worship leader, but the text is not clear.

There are many passages that may refer to Satan in the Bible, but it is not so clear.

Note, I do teach about Satan, but I let my listeners know that I don't have 100% confidence in everyone's interpretation of what the Bible says. As a teacher, it is important to acknowledge the difference between what I know and what I think I know.
 
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watchman1956

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I think to reach each heart for Christ, we need use a variety of styles, methods, persuasions. Some bow in reverence, some raise their hands in praise, some taste of God's presence and power and it immediately takes them out from any sinful relationship or from drugs, some love the wisdom in Christ, some need healing, some love the testimonies. The love of God captures the really nice ones.

Better to be led by the Spirit when to suggest receiving Christ. And different pastors have different methods, we can send their testimonies out to whoever it may appeal to.

I think that in the end we will see this approach as a fatal mistake to many who are called Christians.
The problem is if people are not accepting of all of who God is then they are still in rebellion to the true God.
God has many faucets, some we like and some are hard. To want a God that is only love but has no wrath is another god. To want mercy but not deal with judgement and rightness is another god.

Jesus went around doing good and healing everyone and the multitudes followed him for this reason. Then he turned to them and said that they were a wicked generation that were going to be judged on the day of judgement.

Matt. 11:20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

This is very much what we see going on in america today. There are people from all over the world trying to get into our country for the benefits we have here but they don't want our president, our government or our laws. They only want the parts that they like. Well many christians are presenting God the same way. What part do you like, you can have that and forget the rest.

That won't work because that type of faith is what most of us grew up on. Don't you remember when your mom told you believe in the tooth fairy and you will get money, believe in Santa clause and you will get presents, believe in the Easter bunny and you will get chocolate, and oh by the way believe in Jesus and you will go to heaven. How is that faith working out for you so far?

The gospel message in america and maybe around the world has gone from God saving us from the wrath to come and eternal life to your best life now message. It is a man centered message that will get you what ever you want if you only believe. And if your not getting it than you lack faith. And of course that faith is in yourself.

Christ suffered the way he did because that is the just punishment for sin. And all sin will be punished. The only way to escape the judgement is to "REPENT" This is why God sent Christ to us so we could turn back to God and so he could be just and forgive us because justice was served for our sins in Jesus. You can take all the other benefits of God through Christ like healing, deliverance, prosperity, love and mercy but if you don't "repent" there will be judgement.

Rom 11:22 Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

This is my view of the gospel of heaven and hell. The are both real. Hell is reserved for those who reject God's rule over them and want to be there own god. Heaven is for those who have bowed a knee and said not my will but yours be done.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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To non believers, there is the need to attract and win them. Later, they grow in the Holy Spirit. Their values change. Who they want to marry and what they want to do... Peter was won by Jesus miracles and wisdom... at first he exclaimed to Jesus "Get away from me Lord I am a sinful man." Jesus had to win him. How Peter was transformed.

I think Jesus deliberately gave hard teachings like "drink my blood", to the hard hearted and the blind, so that only those the Father chose would join faithfully to the discipleship. And so that he would be handed over to the Romans. But after the passion there is so much power and mercy, Peter collects 3000 in a day. The same people who called for Jesus death.

Patience and kindness leads to repentance.

A child convert doesn't know what to want. But as a adult may do Bible college and missions, Bible translation or evangelism.

An adult newly converted with established false values will change over time, but will not be won by threats in some cases.

I think God makes people with particular strengths. Some worship on their knees better than standing with hands raised.

Some people are taken to commitment to Christ by reverence, others by love, others by wisdom, for which reason they do not doubt and give up. Then they can even go through discipline and suffering for what is right and persist in reverence or love for God.
 
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Stratified existence, anything not conducive to God's nature, ultimate reality, must be eliminated. Nothing is separate from God, even hell. Pure evil does not exist, "the horror". Given that nothing exists, without God. Satan, the adversary or resistor, opposing force, failed to enslave creation to his will.
 
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