Expensive tree...

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

I saw this story and it's one of those accounts that makes me think we're hiding our country in a dictatorship: Couple must pay nearly $600G for removing oak tree from their property, judge rules

Tom 1 · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
I saw this story and it's one of those accounts that makes me think we're hiding our country in a dictatorship: Couple must pay nearly $600G for removing oak tree from their property, judge rules

It's a basic reality in any country that you have to get authorisation to do anything that contravenes any kind of protection act.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

Tom Farebrother said:
It's a basic reality in any country that you have to get authorisation to do anything that contravenes any kind of protection act.

I used to be involved somewhat in environmental impact problems in our country. There is some truth to what you say when it involves the protection of wildlife. I'm just not sure the environmental impact of that one tree relates to $600,000 going to the government.

Tom 1 · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
I used to be involved somewhat in environmental impact problems in our country. There is some truth to what you say when it involves the protection of wildlife. I'm just not sure the environmental impact of that one tree relates to $600,000 going to the government.

Looks like it's a combination of a punative fine and costs involved in whatever they plan to do. That kind of thing can get pretty pricey, with the planning, expertise, manpower and machinery involved. Always better to get approval before acting, I think.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

Tom Farebrother said:
Looks like it's a combination of a punative fine and costs involved in whatever they plan to do. That kind of thing can get pretty pricey, with the planning, expertise, manpower and machinery involved. Always better to get approval before acting, I think.

They look pretty rich anyways, sold the land for 8.45 million so they wouldn't have to deal with the easement issues.

Jonathan Walkerin · May 9, 2019

Also it was not just one tree....

"The tree, two others they removed and a dozen others along a previously undisturbed path they bulldozed died, along with surrounding vegetation."

It is usually a good idea to read the article you bring to discussion in the first place.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Also it was not just one tree....

"The tree, two others they removed and a dozen others along a previously undisturbed path they bulldozed died, along with surrounding vegetation."

It is usually a good idea to read the article you bring to discussion in the first place.

I did, I was more indicating that people can't do with their property that which they desire anymore without paying the government huge amounts of money. The USA used to be a free land where you could. But the government has changed and now we are no longer free to do with our land that which we desire. It's a USA thing probably that other countries have done for so long they aren't aware of it.

I guess I subscribe to the idea that God gave his children the earth. God didn't give the governments the earth. The governments are the rich rulers of countries. But now we must pay for the land and pay the government to live here. It's a growing problem that is only going to get worse. And taxes keep increasing in the USA.

A_Thinker · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
God didn't give the governments the earth.

But He did establish government on the earth ...

Romans 13

1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. 2 Consequently, the one who resists authority is opposing what God has set in place, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4 For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer.

5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes. For the authorities are God’s servants, who devote themselves to their work.

timewerx · May 9, 2019

Worth the 600G. A tree often maintains its own ecosystem or part of another ecosystem - they help considerably in the pollination process of other trees and plants in the area as well as benefit other plant or animal life, particularly bees.

The impact of one tree in a local area can be considerable and over time, it can amount to a sizeable cost.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

timewerx said:
Worth the 600G. A tree often maintains its own ecosystem or part of another ecosystem - they help considerably in the pollination process of other trees and plants in the area as well as benefit other plant or animal life, particularly bees.

The impact of one tree in a local area can be considerable and over time, it can amount to a sizeable cost.

What if they had ate the bees first? Would it then be OK?

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

A_Thinker said:
But He did establish government on the earth ...

Romans 13

1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. 2 Consequently, the one who resists authority is opposing what God has set in place, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4 For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer.

5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes. For the authorities are God’s servants, who devote themselves to their work.

Yeah I agree, thankfully I live in the USA compared to some other governments I could have been born under.

Shiloh Raven · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
I saw this story and it's one of those accounts that makes me think we're hiding our country in a dictatorship: Couple must pay nearly $600G for removing oak tree from their property, judge rules

I'm glad the couple was held accountable for knowingly violating the conservation easement. The judge said the couple demonstrated “arrogance” and “disregard” over the terms of the easement.

FreeinChrist · May 9, 2019

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a clean up of some rude, off topic posts and then the resulting discussion of those posts.

Tropical Wilds · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
I did, I was more indicating that people can't do with their property that which they desire anymore without paying the government huge amounts of money. The USA used to be a free land where you could. But the government has changed and now we are no longer free to do with our land that which we desire. It's a USA thing probably that other countries have done for so long they aren't aware of it.

They are paying a fine for destroying a segment of property that wasn’t theirs to develop or tear apart. That wasn’t their land... That’s the point.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
They are paying a fine for destroying a segment of property that wasn’t theirs to develop or tear apart. That wasn’t their land... That’s the point.

OK cause I got the general idea that it was their land and the easement gave the right for someone else to cross it or something:

Easement: "a right to cross or otherwise use someone else's land for a specified purpose."

In the title of the story it indicates that it was their property. Or did I miss something?

Yes they should be held accountable probably, but $600,000?

Maybe I should add the price of restalking the forest:

Tree Name Height Price
Live Oak - Seedling 16 - 18' $800
Live Oak - Seedling 18 - 20' $1,400
Live Oak - Seedling 20 - 22' $1,700
Live Oak - Seedling 22 - 24' $2,000

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I'm glad the couple was held accountable for knowingly violating the conservation easement. The judge said the couple demonstrated “arrogance” and “disregard” over the terms of the easement.

That's interesting to me. How can arrogance and disregard amount to more money. I don't see how a judge could charge more money due to the character of the defendants. Shouldn't they be judging on damages and stay out of character?

timewerx · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
Maybe I should add the price of restalking the forest:
Tree Name Height Price
Live Oak - Seedling 16 - 18' $800
Live Oak - Seedling 18 - 20' $1,400
Live Oak - Seedling 20 - 22' $1,700
Live Oak - Seedling 22 - 24' $2,000

Planting a tree restores or raises the value of an ecosystem.

That's restoration vs destruction. You can't expect the two to have the same price tag.

You help restore, you can get things cheap or even compensated. You destroy useful things, you pay for it or go to jail or both.

timewerx · May 9, 2019

devin553344 said:
I don't see how a judge could charge more money due to the character of the defendants.

It pays to be nice. As a Christian more so, and we shouldn't sympathize with bad attitudes.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

timewerx said:
Planting a tree restores or raises the value of an ecosystem.

That's restoration vs destruction. You can't expect the two to have the same price tag.

You help restore, you can get things cheap or even compensated. You destroy useful things, you pay for it or go to jail or both.

I guess I see it different. I feel the judge overstepped their authority with charging more than restoration costs. I see that as fair judgment. Throwing people in jail for something like that just damages peoples lives. I don't see that as a good thing.

devin553344 · May 9, 2019

timewerx said:
It pays to be nice. As a Christian more so, and we shouldn't sympathize with bad attitudes.

Sure but it's not a crime to be arrogant either.

Expensive tree...

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