Are you born again? How do you know?

Dave-W · May 9, 2019

nonaeroterraqueous said:
The thief was granted salvation by Christ. That's hardly Old Testament.

Christ is God. And who was it who spoke the 10 commands from atop of Mt Sinai? Our Lord.

So HE transcends all covenants.

the thief on the cross was saved under the Mosaic covenant.

Dansiph · May 9, 2019

Aspzan said:
I can't remember which gospel it was in but I also heard that according to Baptist (and others) beliefs the thief did everything necessary if you believe that he heard Jesus's words whilst on the cross to become a Christian.

As you follow it states he does things like call Jesus "Lord" etc and that he believes Jesus has a Kindgom. He also asks to be saved. Personally I believe the thief on the cross got saved. I also see that God is one so Jesus saying he'll be with him today is techincally correct.

I'll find the verses

Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

HTacianas · May 9, 2019

nonaeroterraqueous said:
The thief was granted salvation by Christ. That's hardly Old Testament.

Because Christ is sovereign. Does he not have that right?

Are we to assume then that the great commission was for nothing?

Share with us your own ideas on salvation. What does a person have to do to attain it?

Mary Meg · May 9, 2019

Aspzan said:
I can't remember which gospel it was in but I also heard that according to Baptist (and others) beliefs the thief did everything necessary if you believe that he heard Jesus's words whilst on the cross to become a Christian.

As you follow it states he does things like call Jesus "Lord" etc and that he believes Jesus has a Kindgom. He also asks to be saved. Personally I believe the thief on the cross got saved. I also see that God is one so Jesus saying he'll be with him today is techincally correct.

I'll find the verses

I don't think there's any question that the thief got saved...

The question is, are the "rules" Jesus says other places ("Unless you are both of water and the Spirit, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven," John 3:5, etc.) not really rules because there is an exception?

RDKirk · May 9, 2019

Dave-W said:
Christ is God. And who was it who spoke the 10 commands from atop of Mt Sinai? Our Lord.

So HE transcends all covenants.

the thief on the cross was saved under the Mosaic covenant.

The thief on the cross was saved by faith.

RDKirk · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
I don't think there's any question that the thief got saved...

The question is, are the "rules" Jesus says other places ("Unless you are both of water and the Spirit, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven," John 3:5, etc.) not really rules because there is an exception?

Nobody is saved by procedure Everyone is saved by faith. Faith will then move people to obedience to the commanded procedure, but procedure can be followed by those of no faith at all. It is by faith that they are saved.

Dansiph · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
I don't think there's any question that the thief got saved...

The question is, are the "rules" Jesus says other places ("Unless you are both of water and the Spirit, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven," John 3:5, etc.) not really rules because there is an exception?

I don't think baptism is needed for salvation

Mary Meg · May 9, 2019

RDKirk said:
Nobody is saved by procedure Everyone is saved by faith. Faith will then move people to obedience to the commanded procedure, but procedure can be followed by those of no faith at all. It is by faith that they are saved.

But then, is there a procedure for getting saved by faith?

Dave-W · May 9, 2019

RDKirk said:
The thief on the cross was saved by faith.

So was everyone else in the Mosaic covenant.

Dave G. · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
I've done it both ways -- been baptized, and had a personal conversion experience. That's how I know.

And Mary, how is it that you know ? If like most of us who have been born again, you were changed. The old passed away and the new came. And the amazing thing is you didn't do it but it is happening inside you ! Many Old interests died out, many activities too, the ones not so good. New ones replaced those, maybe even some friends. You were given a new birth in the heart, you love more than before and it grows in you. You want more Jesus Christ than before, in fact perhaps before you didn't even want Him but now you do. And do I even need to go on.

Mary Meg · May 9, 2019

Dave G. said:
And Mary, how is it that you know ? If like most of us who have been born again, you were changed. The old passed away and the new came. And the amazing thing is you diudn't do it but it is happening inside you ! Many Old interests died out, many activities too, the ones not so good. You were given a new birth in the heart, you love more than before and it grows in you. You want more Jesus Christ than before, in fact perhaps before you didn't even want Him but now you do. And do I even need to go on.

I think all of that is contained in the concept of a "personal conversion experience"...

I was 9 years old when I "got saved" and was baptized. I was never a profligate sinner, but always raised in church in a godly and loving family. Truthfully, I believe I was "saved" -- I had faith in Christ and knew Him as my Lord and friend -- from the time I was a very small child. I do think turning to Him publicly was important, and the more I read, the more value I place on my baptism -- but no, I don't think either praying a prayer or doing a thing is in itself essential. It's faith, and the faith of a child is more than enough.

But I do believe Jesus commands us to do things, like baptism, and that they are more than symbols or empty acts of obedience. But that doesn't mean that He can't give us the same gifts by grace through faith.

Dave-W · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
But then, is there a procedure for getting saved by faith?

Not so much of a procedure as a list of items. Procedure means they have to be done sequentially to be valid. It is a very western concept.

I am not convinced there is a step by step order to it; or at what point in going thru the list one would be born again.

Dave-W · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
I had faith in Christ and knew Him as my Lord and friend -- from the time I was a very small child. I do think turning to Him publicly was important, and the more I read, the more value I place on my baptism -- but no, I don't think either praying a prayer or doing a thing is in itself essential. It's faith, and the faith of a child is more than enough.

That sounds a lot like my mother's experience.

Dave L · May 9, 2019

Romans 8 said:
Is the bible clear on this? It seems that the church is not.

Faith is fruit of the Holy Spirit. So if you have true faith, it is evidence of the new birth.

1watchman · May 9, 2019

There is a lot of speculation here and religious ideas and preferences, but ONLY when a soul receives the Lord Jesus into their heart as their Savior and TRULY lord of their life, does God honor that faith in His Son, and seal that one by His Holy Spirit (note 1 Jn. 5:10-12; etc.). One will know that when they continue on in communion with the Lord Jesus, and has the "peace that passeth all understanding" by the promise of God. Such things as baptism does NOT save the soul, but HONORS GOD and much pleases Him by taking a stand for God against the unbelieving world ---and He says: "them that honor Me, I will honor".

As to the "thief on the cross", etc. Such were the last of the OT saints and went to "Abraham's bosom". One can see this all explained at the Biblecounsel.net web site, if interested in further inquiry.

Ken Rank · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
It seems like the concept of being "born again" as an personal conversion experience is a relatively new understanding... probably coming out of the Great Awakening revival movement in the United States in the 19th century.

All of the Church Fathers and other early writers I've read understand John 3:5,7 and being "born again" in the context of water baptism.

Actually, there is mention of being born again in other ancient Jewish writings. I think that is why Jesus, if you want to read it this way... seems more surprised with Josephus. "Aren't you a TEACHER and you do not know????" (paraphrased) It is a restart, where one begins a new path with a clean slate. We come in faith, we repent and put our past sinful lives behind us... and we begin a new (to us) path.

RDKirk · May 9, 2019

Dave-W said:
So was everyone else in the Mosaic covenant.

True, which was the major intellectual leap that Paul made: It was always faith.

Dave G. · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
I think all of that is contained in the concept of a "personal conversion experience"...

I was 9 years old when I "got saved" and was baptized. I was never a profligate sinner, but always raised in church in a godly and loving family. Truthfully, I believe I was "saved" -- I had faith in Christ and knew Him as my Lord and friend -- from the time I was a very small child. I do think turning to Him publicly was important, and the more I read, the more value I place on my baptism -- but no, I don't think either praying a prayer or doing a thing is in itself essential. It's faith, and the faith of a child is more than enough.

But I do believe Jesus commands us to do things, like baptism, and that they are more than symbols or empty acts of obedience. But that doesn't mean that He can't give us the same gifts by grace through faith.

Ken Rank said:
Actually, there is mention of being born again in other ancient Jewish writings. I think that is why Jesus, if you want to read it this way... seems more surprised with Josephus. "Aren't you a TEACHER and you do not know????" (paraphrased) It is a restart, where one begins a new path with a clean slate. We come in faith, we repent and put our past sinful lives behind us... and we begin a new (to us) path.

Thus, I'll say it again: We Are Changed.

RDKirk · May 9, 2019

Mary Meg said:
But then, is there a procedure for getting saved by faith?

If there were a procedure, it would not be by faith.

Mary Meg · May 9, 2019

RDKirk said:
If there were a procedure, it would not be by faith.

Why do you say that?

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:37–38)

Just because we have faith doesn't mean we don't need to know what to do.

Are you born again? How do you know?

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

Well-Known Member

Overseer

Well-Known Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Well-Known Member

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Well-Known Member

Similar threads