Are you born again? How do you know?

Romans 8 said:

Is the bible clear on this? It seems that the church is not.

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The bible is clear on it and so is the Church. To be "born again" is to believe, repent, water baptism for the remission of sins, chrismation to receive the Holy Spirit, and participate in the sacramental life of the Church.

Romans 8 said:

Not all churches agree on this.

Can you explain the process of "chrismation to receive the Holy Spirit"?

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Chrismation is the "laying of hands" to receive the Holy Spirit. Sometimes in the bible it is accomplished through the prayer of the apostles.

It seems like the concept of being "born again" as an personal conversion experience is a relatively new understanding... probably coming out of the Great Awakening revival movement in the United States in the 19th century.

All of the Church Fathers and other early writers I've read understand John 3:5,7 and being "born again" in the context of water baptism.

HTacianas said:

The bible is clear on it and so is the Church. To be "born again" is to believe, repent, water baptism for the remission of sins, chrismation to receive the Holy Spirit, and participate in the sacramental life of the Church.

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"This day you will be with me in paradise".

Romans 8 said:

Do you believe in an indwelling Holy Spirit when we believe, and then a Baptism later? Or just one receiving of the Holy Spirit?

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There is one instance of a group receiving the Holy Spirit at the prayer of the apostles and being baptized afterwards. But that seems to be outside the norm.

Romans 8 said:

Not all churches agree on this.

Can you explain the process of "chrismation to receive the Holy Spirit"?

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Not all churches teach soundly. Any denomination which teaches that being born again (of water and spirit) is not connected to baptism, teaches falsely.

Dave G. said:

"This day you will be with me in paradise".

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When did the thief on the cross receive the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8 said:

I agree, but how do you know if you're born of Spirit?

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I've heard it said that if you now understand the Bible more easily this is a sign of being born again. I think this is the verse used:

1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 8 said:

I agree, but how do you know if you're born of Spirit?

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If you know you have been validly baptized (whether because you remember your baptism, or because there is documentation of it), then you know that you have been born again.

Romans 8 said:

This is a great point. The thief simply believed.

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The thief died under the old testament and had a dispensation from God. If otherwise why all the business about baptism and some holding the ability to convey the Holy Spirit onto others while some could not?

TuxAme said:

If you know you have been validly baptized (whether because you remember your baptism, or because there is documentation of it), then you know that you have been born again.

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According to scripture ? If so where ?

Romans 8 said:

This is a great point. The thief simply believed.

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Yes, but this is an extraordinary instance, not the ordinary means by which one is "born again". This can't be applied to everyone who isn't being crucified alongside Him, coming to faith at their eleventh hour.

I've done it both ways -- been baptized, and had a personal conversion experience. That's how I know.

HTacianas said:

The thief died under the old testament and had a dispensation from God.

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The thief was granted salvation by Christ. That's hardly Old Testament.

If otherwise why all the business about baptism....

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Because Christ is sovereign. Does he not have that right?

Dave G. said:

"This day you will be with me in paradise".

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I can't remember which gospel it was in but I also heard that according to Baptist (and others) beliefs the thief did everything necessary if you believe that he heard Jesus' words whilst on the cross to become a Christian.

As you follow it states he does things like call Jesus "Lord" etc and that he believes Jesus has a Kindgom. He also asks to be saved. Personally I believe the thief on the cross got saved. I also see that God is one so Jesus saying he'll be with him today is techincally correct.

I'll find the verses