Replacement Theology Refuted

ewq1938 said:

God divorced Judah.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

put her away
7971

07971 shalach {shaw-lakh'}

a primitive root; TWOT - 2394; v

AV - send 566, go 73, (send, put,...) forth 54, send away 48, lay 14,
send out 12, put 10, put away 7, cast out 7, stretch out 5,
cast 5, set 5, put out 4, depart 4, soweth 3, loose 3, misc 22; 847

1) to send, send away, let go, stretch out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to send
1a2) to stretch out, extend, direct
1a3) to send away
1a4) to let loose
1b) (Niphal) to be sent
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to send off or away or out or forth, dismiss, give over, cast out
1c2) to let go, set free
1c3) to shoot forth (of branches)
1c4) to let down
1c5) to shoot
1d) (Pual) to be sent off, be put away, be divorced, be impelled
1e) (Hiphil) to send



To put a wife away is another way to speak of divorce.




Gill:

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes, whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery,.... Not only Judah saw, but God, who sees all things, saw the idolatry of the ten tribes which apostatized from him, and all the springs, causes, reasons, and occasions of it, and its consequences; and also the treachery, hardness, and idolatry of Judah:

I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; as men did, when they put away their wives, as they might lawfully do in case of adultery; and here being that which answered to it, spiritual adultery or idolatry, the Lord, who was married to this people, put them away from him, and caused them to be carried captive out of their own land into another, 2Ki_17:6 which is meant by the bill of divorce; so the Targum,

"I caused them to go into captivity, as those that give a bill of divorce (to their wives) and dismiss them:''


Barnes:

Jeremiah 3:8

Rather, “And I saw” that because apostate “Israel” had “committed adultery, I had put her away, and given her” the writing of her divorcement, “yet” false “Judah her sister feared not.”...The expression, “For all the causes whereby,” is probably the actual formula with which writings of divorcement commenced.


JFB:

Jeremiah 3:8

I saw that, though (whereas) it was for this very reason (namely), because backsliding (apostate) Israel had committed adultery I had put her away (2Ki_17:6, 2Ki_17:18), and given her a bill of divorce, yet Judah, etc. (Eze_23:11, etc.).
bill of divorce — literally, “a writing of cuttings off.” The plural implies the completeness of the severance. The use of this metaphor here, as in the former discourse (Jer_3:1), implies a close connection between the discourses. The epithets are characteristic; Israel “apostate” (as the Hebrew for “backsliding” is better rendered); Judah, not as yet utterly apostate, but treacherous or faithless.


SB:

Jeremiah 3:1-25

Contents: Jeremiah’s message concerning the impenitence of Judah. Encouragement to backsliders to return and repent.
Characters: God, Jeremiah.
Conclusion: Those will justly be divorced from God that join themselves to such as are rivals with Him, but God is ever ready to pardon sin and receive those who will return to Him humbly confessing their sins and acknowledging their dependence upon Him for salvation.




Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


"which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them"

This covenant is the marriage covenant which both broke.



Zechariah 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.


Judah was "cast off" by God.


cast ...off
2186

02186 zanach {zaw-nakh'}

a primitive root meaning to push aside; TWOT - 564; v

AV - cast...off 17, cast away 1, turn...away 1, removed...far off; 20

1) to cast off, reject, spurn
1a) (Qal) to reject
1b) (Hiphil) to forcefully reject someone
2) to stink, emit stench, become odious
2a) (Hiphil) stink (perfect)



This "casting off" is the same reference of divorcing as in "putting away" a wife found in Jeremiah 3:8. Judah and Israel were "cast off" just as Israel had been "put away", both are terms for divorcing.




Mal_2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.

Here Judah is either presented as a male who has married the daughter of a false god, or a female who has married the daughter of a false god. Either way, Judah is no longer married to God.

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You need to grasp there are two houses addressed in Jeremiah 3:8; only Ephraim is divorced.

Concerning my comment that your responses are anachronistic you wrote,

claninja said:

How so?

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Anthropology concerns the origins of people and it’s a simple fact that some people in our modern society are descendants of the ten northern tribes of Ephraim and some are not. Supersessionists can grumble all they want but this fact still stands. When the inerrancy of scripture is upheld, the Old Testament texts concerning the restoration of the elect of Ephraim pertain to the descendants of the ten northern tribes and those concerning the elect gentiles pertain to those who are not descendants of the ten tribes. Your comments make no such distinctions so they are anachronistic, anthropologically as well as scripturally.

claninja said:

If saying I have a lack of erudition makes you feel better, I'm glad I could help.

But this still doesn't address how Paul applies Hosea in romans 9:25-26 to the Jews and Gentiles in Romans 9:24.

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But this is precisely why I wrote your comments are anachronistic; not all Israelites are Jews! Your perception implies Paul is merely speaking of “Jews” in Romans 9:24, which is a shallow perception in light of the fact he is addressing “who is true Israel among Israel,” in your own words. He is obviously employing hyperbole and means Israel; God has his elect, vessels of mercy, amongst the Israelites as well as the gentiles. Verses 25-26 cite Hosea 2:23 pertaining the descendants of Israel, the ten northern tribes, that are redeemed and then sown throughout the world, which carries over from the previous verse concerning Israel and the succeeding one from Isaiah 10:22. The context supports my perception and not yours and any notion that the “gentiles” were sown in the world to spread the gospel is anachronistic, anthropologically as well as scripturally. It’s not about anyone’s feelings, it’s about the truth.

In response to my comments upon discernment between fulfillment and consummation, you reiterated the common misapprehension that the apostles cite from the OT to indicate the fulfillment of OT texts pertaining to the establishment of the Davidic kingdom.

claninja said:

Isaiah 11:13: Paul has Isaiah 11:10 fulfilled with the gentiles glorifying God.
Romans 15:12: And once more, Isaiah says: “The root of Jesse will appear, One who will arise to rule over the Gentiles; in Him the Gentiles will put their hope.”

Hosea 1:10: Paul has Hosea 1:10 fulfilled with Jews and Gentiles becoming vessels of mercy
Romans 9:26 and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”….


It appears THT does as well, when they ignore the NT applications of OT scripture by the apostles.

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Again, supersessionism fails to grasp fulfillment in juxtapose with consummation. Some prophecies are intended to be protracted phenomena; fulfillment is for an extended period until the consummation. Revelation 11 affirms the kingdoms of the world do not become Christ’s to rule until the time arrives to judge the dead and to reward the saints. Consequently, texts such as Romans 15:12 cannot be truly interpreted as consummated but only begun, any more than Judah and Ephraim’s reconciliation in avowing Christ. Isaiah prophesied that Ephraim is only fully reconciled with Judah when Christ strikes the “earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked” (Isaiah 11:4), which substantiates the enmity ends with Christ’s return in Revelation 11. Isaiah 11 cannot be correctly interpreted as consummated at the first advent.

Concerning the enmity between Ephraim and Judah prophesied for the first advent in Zechariah 11:14 you wrote.

claninja said:

You argument doesn't even make any sense, nor does your use of the word backpedaling. Misunderstanding on your part does not amount to backpedaling on mine. I believe Ephraim and gentiles are synonymous, in that Ephraim was divorced by God and became as gentiles in regards to the old covenant.

There is enmity between the Jews and the body of Christ.
Zechariah 11:14 Then I cut in pieces my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

Galatians 4:25-28 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written: “Rejoice, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud,
you who have never travailed; because more are the children of the desolate woman,
than of her who has a husband.” Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time, however, the son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now.

There is peace between Jews and gentiles in the body of Christ.

Hosea 1:11 Then the people of Judah and of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one head, and will go up out of the land.

Isaiah 11:13 Then the jealousy of Ephraim will depart, and the adversariesd of Judah will be cut off.
Ephraim will no longer envy Judah, nor will Judah harass Ephraim.

Ephesians 2:14-16 For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility.

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As I stated, supersessionists can grumble all they want but the fact still remains that some people in our modern society are descendants of the ten northern tribes of Ephraim and some are not. When the inerrancy of scripture is upheld, the Old Testament texts concerning to the restoration of the elect of Ephraim pertains to the descendants of the ten northern tribes and those concerning the elect gentiles pertain to those who are not descendants of the ten tribes. Your comments make no such distinctions so they are anachronistic, anthropologically as well as scripturally.


Your interpretation ends the inerrancy of scripture in that it no longer maintains the OT as a guide for the original addressees, as well as succeeding generations. The inerrancy of the OT is shattered when the prophets are interpreted as in error concerning the identity of Ephraim, or that the ten northern tribes become synonymous with the gentiles, undistinguishable by God as to who is a descendant of Ephraim and who is not. God’s omniscience is called into question if he is unable to make such a distinction in the end and having ordained it to the prophets who lived thousands of years before its consummation. The prophets are simply incapable of relating the future events concerning their people to their contemporaries and their future descendants in such an interpretation as yours that attacks the inerrancy of the OT.

As to my comments that Christ returns to execute the prophecies of the Davidic kingdom you wrote,

claninja said:

I would partially agree and partially disagree.

Revelation states the kingdom comes when Jesus ascends to heaven and Satan is cast out.

revelation 12:9-10 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ.

Which is consistent with Jesus telling they disciples they wouldn't die until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.

Mark 9:1 Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power

The consummation occurs at the 2nd advent.

Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

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You’re just making my point that elements of the Davidic kingdom had come to fruition in that generation conveyed as the kingdom of God, but the Davidic kingdom is only consummated when Christ returns; the "kingdom of God" is not the Davidic kingdom to those who are well studied. As I stated, Jeremiah 23:1-6 affirms the Davidic kingdom executes judgment and justice for his people so that they dwell safely that is a counterpart of Ezekiel 38:8-12, which is why John cites from Ezekiel in the events succeeding Christ’s reign with the saints for 1000 years in Revelation 20. In this age the people of God are not secure, as Satan, the dragon, is allowed to make war with the saints and overcome them (Revelation 13).

claninja said:

He also reigns until his enemies are made his footstool

1 Corinthians 15:26 He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

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Christ reigns in the hearts of the elect, but the world is still allowed to be deceived by Satan, so Christ not reigning over the world as yet. The promises of the Davidic kingdom execute judgment and justice for his people so that they dwell safely, which is not consummated until Christ returns and executes the promises pertaining to the Davidic kingdom.

claninja said:

:Does this mean you concede Ephraim became as the gentiles, as they were separated from God and became "not my people"?

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Ephraim is amongst the gentiles, which does not mean God is unable to discern who is a descendant of Ephraim and who is not. God’s omniscience is called into question if he is unable to make such a distinction in the end and having had ordained it to the prophets who lived thousands of years before its consummation. The prophets are simply incapable of relating the future events concerning their people to their contemporaries and their future descendants in such an interpretation as yours and supersessionism.

claninja said:

how does this address satan having two little seasons?

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Your confusing Satan’s release from the pit with his being cast to the earth. The contrast between the two vindicates they are not synchronous.

claninja said:

So the high priest entering the presence of God every year as mentioned in Hebrews 9 has nothing to with the day of atonement? Even a modest Bible expositor could see that you’re wrong.

Hebrews 9:24-25 For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God. Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood that is not his own.

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The modest Bible expositors are indifferent to the seven months that separated the spring and autumnal festivals, amongst numerous other issues that vindicate Hebrews 9:24 is not about the day of atonement. The day of atonement was connected to judgment, which is not what Christ came for (John 12:47).