When did you become radicalized by the U.S. Healthcare Non-System?

rambot · May 7, 2019

variant said:
Easy there, we pay good subsidies to those who produce butter.

But socialism in healthcare, that's a no no.

U.S. dairy subsidies equal 73 percent of producer returns, says new report – RealAgriculture

Wow. Good thing you tried to break down Canada's relatively healthy food production system for America's socialist utopia.

1000Flames · May 7, 2019

Tree of Life said:
We don't consume traditional healthcare because of the outrageous and unwarranted costs. We've had all our babies at home and have only had to pay our midwife $3000 for each birth. Much better than the $30k + you'll pay for an unnecessary hospital birth.

How does a midwife handle pre-eclampsia leading into eclampsia thus requiring an emergency C-section? I'd like to know to avoid that for our 2nd child.

Tree of Life · May 7, 2019

1000Flames said:
How does a midwife handle pre-eclampsia leading into eclampsia thus requiring an emergency C-section? I'd like to know to avoid that for our 2nd child.

If this is a known risk then I would not recommend using a midwife.

Tree of Life · May 7, 2019

Also, any good midwife who is able to identify such complications would transfer the mother to the parallel care provider at the nearest hospital.

1000Flames · May 7, 2019

Tree of Life said:
If this is a known risk then I would not recommend using a midwife.

Obviously it wasn't a known risk. So off to the hospital we went.

Tree of Life said:
Also, any good midwife who is able to identify such complications would transfer the mother to the parallel care provider at the nearest hospital.

Oh, the hospital with the outrageous and unwarranted costs? Gee, thanks. Now we're stuck with the 30k+ you just brushed off so easily. Heck of a solution there chief.

PreviouslySeeking... · May 7, 2019

BTW, people need to stop with the "but we don't have to wait for our medical care in the US". For one, it isn't true. How long you have to wait depends on your location and how specialized the care you need is. Oh, and how bad your insurance coverage is.

For some insurance plans the referral has to be approved before an appt can be made. For some insurance plans, you are free to make the appointment knowing you will be on the hook for your co-pays & whatever the insurance doesn't want to pay. If your
coverage sucks, (if the insurance company pays a low rate & is difficult to deal with), a shorter list of providers will take it & sometimes, even with a referral in hand and diagnostic tests showing a problem- you can be asked to wait months for an appointment with a specialist. Don't forget that you are probably living with pain or other symptoms during that time.

I live in major metro area (Seattle) with lots of hospitals & a major university. So while everyone I need is likely within 20 miles, they are certainly not available when I need them. But I know I am much more fortunate than many, like my relatives in Mississippi.

Plenty of people wait for healthcare in the US, like everything else in this country- the less you have, the more you are expected to put up with.

variant · May 7, 2019

Pommer said:
So we prop up butter and sugar?

Yes. (and pretty much every other kind of food). When say, milk producers complain about sugar paying politicians blaming fat for stuff they are basically just looking for the subsidies themselves.

variant · May 7, 2019

1000Flames said:
How does a midwife handle pre-eclampsia leading into eclampsia thus requiring an emergency C-section? I'd like to know to avoid that for our 2nd child.

They rush you to the hospital.

variant · May 7, 2019

rambot said:
Wow. Good thing you tried to break down Canada's relatively healthy food production system for America's socialist utopia.

Yeah, if it's not significantly in our benefit we're usually on the warpath.

The irony here is that the people who made the US dairy industry into a massive socialist entitlement that still doesn't really work incessantly preach free market economics to the rest of us to teach us how bad socialism is.

We've got over a billion tons of excess cheese and were cutting foreign aid to country's that don't have enough food to pay for it.

The refrain is socialism for me but not for thee, Canada's system of food production limits our access to their market so we can't necessarily flood their country with our cheap subsidized milk.

Subjecting any group to a couple of years of a real free market usually demonstrates why no one actually wants it. And, certainly no one wants it when the other side isn't actually playing by the same rules.

Tree of Life · May 7, 2019

1000Flames said:
Obviously it wasn't a known risk. So off to the hospital we went.

This was not foreseenduring the course of pregnancy care?

Oh, the hospital with the outrageous and unwarranted costs? Gee, thanks. Now we're stuck with the 30k+ you just brushed off so easily. Heck of a solution there chief.

A C-Section will cost more than 30k. I don't know what to tell you.

wing2000 · May 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Really? From my frig:

View attachment 256102

View attachment 256103

....and the ingredients listing?

I decided to go look myself...

Ingredients

INGREDIENTS: Whole Wheat Flour, Water, Brown Sugar, Wheat Gluten, Wheat Bran, Contains 2% or less of the following: Yeast, Salt, Honey, Soybean Oil, Molasses, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (Preservative), Dough Conditioners (Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Monoglycerides, DATEM, Ascorbic Acid), Yeast Nutrients (Monocalcium Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate), Wheat Starch, Soy Lecithin.

24oz WP Wheat Reg SL-Rosens Bag | S. Rosen's

variant · May 7, 2019

wing2000 said:
....and the ingredients listing?

(Since he gave you a picture with the brand and name)

24oz WP Wheat Reg SL-Rosens Bag | S. Rosen's

variant · May 7, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Perfect example is that he thinks the foods he mentioned are "healthy". While some of them are healthier than outright junk food, most of the foods he listed are far from the healthiest options. The foods he listed would be a lot of sugars in the diet as well as a lot of starch.

Perfect example again is that he mentions WW (whole wheat) bread. Whole wheat bread is no better than white or any other bread. Whole wheat is different from whole GRAIN bread but people are fooled into thinking they're the same thing.

So here you have someone like OWG preaching about how people should eat whole wheat bread as part of a healthy diet when in fact it's junk as much as any other bread. He doesn't realize that what people should do is virtually eliminate bread and only eat it sparingly, on special occasions. He's advocating that peanut butter on bread is some kind of healthy choice while it's extremely unhealthy! But there you have it that he's fallen victim to the food industry's myths. They have convinced him that there's this magical "whole wheat bread" which is somehow better than other bread and is "healthy".

And that is the kind of person who in turn is telling other people THEY need to be healthier. That's why in the debate of healthcare we can't listen to people who talk about how others should "just be more healthy" - they are almost always wrong on what is "healthy" to begin with and are as unhealthy as the people they are criticizing. He goes on to prove that he is also not careful enough to avoid injury yet he says others should be "more careful" to avoid injury.

The cognitive dissonance is amazing with people who have that mindset!

I think you've both gone round the bend a bit here in terms of how difficult it would be to improve the health of the average american.

The first problem of american nutrition is that we eat far too much rather than not eating exactly perfectly.

Tanj · May 7, 2019

Tree of Life said:
A C-Section will cost more than 30k. I don't know what to tell you.

Well, it wouldn't have any out of pocket expense in a single payer system, which is what (s)he was trying to tell you.

However, the next time you are at a loss for words in this situation, I suggest you apologize for your flippant hand wave response to their troubles by telling them it doesn't affect you so who cares.

1000Flames · May 7, 2019

Tree of Life said:
This was not foreseenduring the course of pregnancy care?

A C-Section will cost more than 30k. I don't know what to tell you.

Of course it wasn't forseen, hence the word EMERGENCY. You know, something that isn't planned. Must be nice never having experienced one.

A C-section costs more than 30k? Gee golly willikers thanks for that info. You must have seen our bills and thought I was too dumb to read them. If only we took your advice and just avoided the outrageous and unnecessary hospital my wife and I wouldn't be in this situation, right? Glad healthcare is trouble free in your world.

1000Flames · May 7, 2019

variant said:
They rush you to the hospital.

Oh you mean the outrageous and unnecessary hospital the other poster mentioned? Gee, what a surprise. Almost as if just getting a midwife is a totally useless solution to fixing healthcare relating to childbirth.

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2019

variant said:
I think you've both gone round the bend a bit here in terms of how difficult it would be to improve the health of the average american.

The first problem of american nutrition is that we eat far too much rather than not eating exactly perfectly.

Bullseye!

Unfortunately we didn't get that far in our discussion. Even the best food cannot be properly digested if one eats too much. "Hungry dogs hunt best", so it's best to keep your gut biome doggies a little hungry.

Only one of us has 'gone round the bend', and it's the one who advocates that poor children, and the mentally challenged, be given water to drink instead of whole milk, and celery instead of good whole wheat bread. Bananas, peanut butter, carrots and potatoes, are also taboo. :swoon:

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2019

wing2000 said:
....and the ingredients listing?

I decided to go look myself...

Ingredients

INGREDIENTS: Whole Wheat Flour, Water, Brown Sugar, Wheat Gluten, Wheat Bran, Contains 2% or less of the following: Yeast, Salt, Honey, Soybean Oil, Molasses, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (Preservative), Dough Conditioners (Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Monoglycerides, DATEM, Ascorbic Acid), Yeast Nutrients (Monocalcium Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate), Wheat Starch, Soy Lecithin.

24oz WP Wheat Reg SL-Rosens Bag | S. Rosen's

Whole wheat or other whole grain breads that have few or none of those scary sounding ingredients can be found as well. I eat Rosen's because I, and my digestion, like it better than the others. I would also recommend feeding kids bread that they actually like as well.

ArmenianJohn · May 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Bullseye! Unfortunately we didn't get that far in our discussion. Even the best food cannot be properly digested if one eats too much. "Hungry dogs hunt best", so it's best to keep your gut biome doggies a little hungry.

Only one of us has 'gone round the bend', and it's the one who advocates that poor children, and the mentally challenged, be given water to drink instead of whole milk, and celery instead of good whole wheat bread. Bananas, peanut butter, carrots and potatoes, are also taboo.

You need to learn good nutrition. You're advocating that poor people eat processed flour and sugars and lots of sodium and you say it's because they're poor that you are suggesting junky food but then you defend it as if it's not junky food. You are flip-flopping.

The bread you posted a picture of is straight up junk. 2 pieces of bread for a sandwich with that junk will result in 20% of your sodium for the day JUST from the bread. Bread is junk, it should be eaten sparingly and not as a regular part of a person's diet. This isn't 1950, we know this by now.

You also don't get it that fruits and even vegetables can be high in sugar. I don't kjnow where you get your information from but it's pretty warped. Peanut butter and potatoes? Come on. Carbs out the wazoo.

And milk for kids? Gee I wonder why juvenile and adult onset diabetes is skyrocketing in America - can't be related to the myth that milk is good for children. (And we're talking cow's milk here, not mother's breast milk.) Milk is full of lactose (which 3/4 of the world's population has intolerance to) which is sugar and designed for baby cows, not human children. It's also full of fat. People, including children, should drink water.
Debunking The Milk Myth: Why Milk Is Bad For You And Your Bones

You are the one who has gone round the bend and you keep going without looking back.

But it is good to see you disprove yourself by advocating that people "eat healthy" and then recommending foods high in sugar, sodium, fat, and carbs. But you're probably from a very American background and have been trained up in eating junk, whereas I have a cultural background where we have the healthiest diet in the world.

ArmenianJohn · May 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Whole wheat or other whole grain breads that have few or none of those scary sounding ingredients can be found as well. I eat Rosen's because I, and my digestion, like it better than the others. I would also recommend feeding kids bread that they actually like as well.

When did you become radicalized by the U.S. Healthcare Non-System?

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