marian apparitions

Romans_3:4 said:

@Mountainmike: The Church also doesn't test the spirits properly. See 1 John 4:1-5.


@GodsGrace101: They absolutely can be and are demonic. See 2 Corinthians 11:12-15. And yes, Satan can and does perform lying signs and wonders (including healings) to deceive people.

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ChicanaRose said:

Okay, you are entitled to your own opinion, but I also understand the Eucharist very well. It took me a long time and an extensive research to get out of Catholicism.

People kneeling down to a statue of Mary (as I used to do) is not a good fruit. People coming out on the 13th of each month between May and October for Marian processions (which I used to participate in) is not a good fruit.

**Paul did not warn the believers against pagan gods or teachings. Instead, he warned against "another Jesus" and "another gospel" (2 Cor. 11:4). Some good fruits mimic divine revelation, and can be tricky. But the fruit of idolatry would not stem from a good tree.

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Mark_Sam said:

Mary has since the very beginning been called "the mother of the Lord" (Luke 1:43) and "the favored one"/"endued with grace" (Luke 1:28), and the early Church understood that she had a special role in the history of salvation, being called "the God-bearer" (Theotokos), "the mother of God" and "the all-holy" (Panagia). Throughout the ages, the Church more and more understood who she was, in many ways it reached its height in the 1850's when the centuries-old belief of the Immaculate Conception was made dogma.

The standard Catholic apologetic answer is to compare the development of doctrine to a seed. The seed grows into a tree, which looks different, but it's still the same object, just in a more another form. The Apostles believed in the Incarnation and the Trinity. But the Church would still need several Ecumenical Councils over the span of centuries to fully explain these doctrines. The Church has always believed that Mary was a special person with a special mission, that she was the mother of God, she was holy, she was the Kecharitōménē ("the favored one").

Irenaeus, the "spiritual grandson" of St. John the Evangelist (he was a disciple of Polycarp, who in turn was a disciple of St. John), set up Eve and Mary as type and antitype, laying the foundation for calling Mary "the new Eve". The oldest prayer to Mary that we have today, the "Sub tuum praesidium", might predate the Council of Nicea. Those are some early examples.

So the particular Marian doctrines and devotions developed over time, and in stages. But they did not appear out of thin air, and neither was their development seen as unnatural or contrary to devotion to Christ our God. The "Marian seed", so to speak, was always there.

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Romans_3:4 said:

She's not the first one to be called Theotokos; look up the Cult of Isis.

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Mark_Sam said:

And your point being?

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Romans_3:4 said:

She's not the first one to be called Theotokos; look up the Cult of Isis.

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Romans_3:4 said:

My point is that the Catholic Church gave "Mary" titles (theotokos, queen of heaven, star of the sea, universal mother, etc.) that had previously been given to a pagan deity (i.e., they were of PAGAN origin).

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Romans_3:4 said:

My point is that the Catholic Church gave "Mary" titles (theotokos, queen of heaven, star of the sea, universal mother, etc.) that had previously been given to a pagan deity (i.e., they were of PAGAN origin).

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Romans_3:4 said:

I believe that all the apparitions are demonic in nature. See 2 Corinthians 11:12-14, Matthew24:4-5; 23-26.

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prodromos said:

So you are saying that any elements of the Christian faith that can be found in pagan religions are false and should be discarded?

Virgin birth - gone
Son of God - gone
Resurrection- gone
Worship of God - gone

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Lost4words said:

Seems to me that you didnt / dont know, or understand Catholicism

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Romans_3:4 said:

@prodromos: Jesus Christ is the first and only one to hold the title Son of God. Something tells you are referring to the male offspring of the various ancient pagan pantheons. Those offspring have NEVER held Christ's title, and they never will!


I was referring to the idolatrous pagan titles the Catholic Church has given "Mary", affirmed by the marian apparitions (whose messages are contrary to Scripture, and as such, are not from God. They are, therefore demonic).

The four things you listed are in God's Word, and It's not going anywhere, nor will it ever change.

@Lost4words: What you are referring to is Christ's Transfiguration, and it is found in God's Word. It is not demonic. The marian apparitions are demonic. Their messages are either not found in God's Word or they contradict God's Word. As such, they are not from God and are demonic.

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