3 People Groups Going into the Lake of Fire

Danielwright2311 said:

Belief is the key to salvation.

Click to expand...

Belief in Christ includes doing as Christ says to do, or do you think we can ignore what he tells us we must do, and still call ourselves believers? That's not a rhetorical question, and once you answer it I'll comment further. A dodge doesn't count as an answer and if that happens, no sense in commenting.

devin553344 said:

What do you believe is the actual physical fate of those people, is it eternally dead and gone from existence after being burnt alive in physical form?

Click to expand...

I take an overall approach to that, whatever it is exactly, it ain't good.

Danielwright2311 said:

I follow what Jesus said not what any church said, I follow Jesus only.

Click to expand...

Good, do you think we need to do good in order to make it to heaven? Or do you pick and choose what part of what Jesus said in order to style the Gospel into what you want it to be? Both pertinent questions that I hope you will answer clearly.

Lost4words said:

We are not to judge. God is mercy and love. Only God knows who is going where.

Click to expand...

The very reason he is teaching Gods word. Do you not know that is what God told us to do, teach his word, yet when done people are guilty of Judging? Do you think God would tell us to spread his word if it was wrong to do so? And If you will notice, his scripture is directly from the bible...God's word.

The OP judges no one to Hell....that is all Gods doing.

Ronald said:

He would not save someone He knows will later be lost.

Click to expand...

Sure he will, we get saved and decide the world and all it has to offer is better than salvation so we walk away. There is nothing biblical in what you are saying, bur here is scripture on the parable of the sower to prove my end of this:

Luke 8:

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

frogoon234 said:

Jesus is always faithful and doesn't let any of his sheep fall away.

Click to expand...

The prior scripture was a quote from Jesus, and says differently. Jesus is not going to force anyone who chooses the world over salvation t come back, it defeats the whole purpose of coming to him willingly. God didn't create a bunch of Yes Men robots so he could pretend they love home when they were only forced to do so, he gave them free will to go or stay anytime they please....that is the test of love for God.

aiki said:

You really have an axe to grind with this saved-and-lost, works-salvation stuff! You just can't let off promoting these false doctrines! Yikes!

Click to expand...

Did you not read the scripture he presented? Would you like to discuss them, prove them wrong, or just stick with empty accusations that never really gets down to scripture?

frogoon234 said:

When a person focuses on Jesus's sacrifice and Jesus's resurrection they can't lose their salvation because the living God willfully keeps his sheep from falling away.

Click to expand...

Wrong. Please read a couple or socomments up, the one that starts with "The prior scripture was a quote from Jesus"

frogoon234 said:

If Jesus thought i was going to lose my salvation he would kill me and yes Jesus does kill people.

Click to expand...

Kill you? Who in the world told you that??

I just honestly don't see it that God wants those who are in the position of preacher or minister or church leader to be preaching on Fire and Brimstone all of the time.

It is also probably a good idea to bear in mind that Revelation is a very unique time in the world, when it does come. The rules change a bit once the Age of Grace is over.

Kenny'sID said:

Kill you? Who in the world told you that??

Click to expand...

The Bible. I assume you've read some of the old testament as well as the new testament? People are killed indirectly by God all day every day.

Kenny'sID said:

The prior scripture was a quote from Jesus, and says differently. Jesus is not going to force anyone who chooses the world over salvation t come back, it defeats the whole purpose of coming to him willingly. God didn't create a bunch of Yes Men robots so he could pretend they love home when they were only forced to do so, he gave them free will to go or stay anytime they please....that is the test of love for God.

Click to expand...

I believe a persons character at any given point in time is assessed by 100s of variables and each variable is weighted differently. Each variable takes tremendous research to just ascertain the value of that one particular variable.

As for Calvinism. I don't have a strong opinion for or against Calvinism. Why would someone who focuses on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ever willfully leave a relationship with him. There is nothing more beautiful or freeing than the gospel if it is seen with a clear view. God can show mercy on whom he wants and he can blind who he wants. His motives or personality aren't always apparent to us. What motivates people to work our fellow brothers and sisters harder? I believe the christian church should move away from a focus on giving money and should move to a focus on giving stuff and providing labor. Work and resource giving is a form of service to Jesus Christ. Money is in short supply in the day and age we live in. Instead of subdueing our brothers and sisters we should try to be productive without really focusing on the hierarchy of things. To compel someone to work harder to get into heaven can be seen as trying to enslave them. Lets let the living God be our master. God never asked Moses to form a hierarchy but it was Moses's father in law who asked him to form a hierarchy with in the old testament church. This should be a lesson for the new testament church.

frogoon234 said:

The Bible. I assume you've read some of the old testament as well as the new testament? People are killed indirectly by God all day every day.

Click to expand...

You didn't address the question.

Who told you that?

And in addition, why would you be killed by Jesus if he thought you were going to lose your salvation? There has to be more to that, the reason I asked where you got it from.

It interests me because it's so bizarre a thing to say...and something I have never heard, so I'm concerned for you for who's teaching that.

frogoon234 said:

There is nothing more beautiful or freeing than the gospel if it is seen with a clear view.

Click to expand...

What's beautiful and freeing is the easier false doctrine you describe. The easier way, over the narrow path God teaches, always sounds better.

frogoon234 said:

God can show mercy on whom he wants and he can blind who he wants.

Click to expand...

And he tells us in his word what we must do in order to receive that mercy, and you seem to be ignoring that part. No way I'd be counting on acting as I like, and just hoping God will show mercy on me in spite of my disobeying him...that not only does not sound beautiful/freeing but is such a worrisome/foolish thing to do, it would scare me to depend on that..

friend of said:

I just honestly don't see it that God wants those who are in the position of preacher or minister or church leader to be preaching on Fire and Brimstone all of the time.

Click to expand...

And how much would be just enough?

friend of said:

It is also probably a good idea to bear in mind that Revelation is a very unique time in the world, when it does come. The rules change a bit once the Age of Grace is over.

Click to expand...

Not sure what your point is there?

Kenny'sID said:

You didn't address the question.

Who told you that?

And in addition, why would you be killed by Jesus if he thought you were going to lose your salvation? There has to be more to that, the reason I asked where you got it from.

It interests me because it's so bizarre a thing to say...and something I have never heard, so I'm concerned for you for who's teaching that.

Click to expand...

First of all for many people death is a release from suffering. Second the Bible says over and over this person or that person was killed by a lion, bear, Nebuchnezzar, illness and so on. As you well know second death is worse than first death. I'm assuming you know the difference between first death and second death.

As for me and many christians wanting to die, that is a common theme through out the Bible but instead i'll quote the book of Revelation because some argue the book of Revelation's prophecies begain sometime between the 1st century and the 6th century (no i don't want to get too much into escatology).

Revelations chapter 6 "let the mountains fall on us" in this particular chapter these people saying this aren't necessarily christians but i'll go on.

Revelations chapter 9 "death fleed from these people" this is another situation where the people saying this aren't necessarily saved but i'll go on

Revelation chapter 14 "it is good to die at this point" In this situation definitely applies to believers

When Stephen the disciple was being stoned he said "God forgive these people for they know not what they do". Stephen knew paradise was death and a short sleep away (some argue you sleep shortly before waking up in heaven but i'm not going to go into that).

I know many people who wish they were dead both christian and non christian. The opiod epidemic in someways is a form of suicide. I don't believe a person has to have a desire to die to be a decent person or to be saved but the issue should be made aware to people.

As for the rest of the Bible i could find you more quotes if you would like.

Kenny'sID said:

What's beautiful and freeing is the easier false doctrine you describe. The easier way, over the narrow path God teaches, always sounds better.



And he tells us in his word what we must do in order to receive that mercy, and you seem to be ignoring that part. No way I'd be counting on acting as I like, and just hoping God will show mercy on me in spite of my disobeying him...that not only does not sound beautiful/freeing but is such a worrisome/foolish thing to do, it would scare me to depend on that..

Click to expand...

I'm not worried about it. I'll trust in the living God and you can also trust in the living God. I have no idea who you are and you have no idea who this christian forum user is. A person's character is very hard and complicated to measure by another mortal. As for Once saved always saved i do believe it is what the Bible teaches.

frogoon234 said:

I'm not worried about it. I'll trust in the living God and you can also trust in the living God. I have no idea who you are and you have no idea who this christian forum user is. A person's character is very hard and complicated to measure by another mortal. As for Once saved always saved i do believe it is what the Bible teaches.

Click to expand...

I not measuring your character, I'm trying to find out where you got that very false idea from.

frogoon234 said:

Revelations chapter 6 "let the mountains fall on us" in this particular chapter these people saying this aren't necessarily christians but i'll go on.

Revelations chapter 9 "death fleed from these people" this is another situation where the people saying this aren't necessarily saved but i'll go on

Click to expand...

Not only not necessarily unsaved but definitely unsaved as I've always read it.

frogoon234 said:

Revelation chapter 14 "it is good to die at this point" In this situation definitely applies to believers

Click to expand...

I'll give benefit of the doubt for the moment, and so there is no confusion, please give exact verse numbers for those three passages so I can read them in context, and see if what you are seeing is true or false. Thanks

Kenny'sID said:

And how much would be just enough?

Click to expand...

Idk. I think preaching on His grace and Love is just as important as preaching on His wrath and indignation, though.

Kenny'sID said:

Not sure what your point is there?

Click to expand...

My point is that we probably shouldn't be applying Revelation to what the situation is currently. Verses like Rev 22:15 are talking about groups of people who have rejected Christ in favor of sin in spite of actually seeing him I person and being subject to his rule in the Millenial kingdom. It may not accurately translate 1:1 with the state of the world's situation today.

Danielwright2311 said:

I follow what Jesus said not what any church said, I follow Jesus only.

Now if your position is Jesus was a liar when he said there is only one unforgivable sin then tell me in plain English and do not twist scripture in any way.

Jesus came and finished all, So there is no reason to listen to one scripture here over Jesus own words.

If we are not believers then we will have our names blotted out, yes, but not sinners as Jesus forgave my sins as he promised.

Click to expand...

Daniel, you brought up Passages earlier showing we have to believe in Jesus to be saved.

But how does Holy Scripture itself define belief?

What is faith according to how Scripture defines it?

***For instance, does faith include repentance from your life ruled by sin? Yes

Luke 5
32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Acts 20 Bolding mine 20 I didn’t shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus.

2 Peter 3 Bolding mine…
9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 2 Bolding mine… 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

***Does faith include obedience to all Christ commanded to be saved? Yes

Hebrews 5:8-10 (NIV)
8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Romans 16:25-27
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Romans 6
18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Romans 6
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

***Does faith require us to listen to and follow Christ to be eternally saved? Yes

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Matthew 10:38
38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me, isn’t worthy of me.

***Does faith require us to become disciples of Jesus to be saved? Yes

Matthew 28:19-20 (THE GREAT COMMISSION)
19 Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey all things that I commanded you.

Mark 8
34 He called the multitude to himself with his disciples, and said to them, “Whoever wants to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; and whoever will lose his life for my sake and the sake of the Good News will save it. 36 For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

***So will a Bible Faith in Jesus that saves mean you are now denying yourself, taking up your cross daily and following Him to be saved? YES!

John 14
21 One who has my commandments, and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.”

***Who then claims to be a Christian but is actually a liar?

1 John 2
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But whoever keeps his word, God’s love has most certainly been perfected in him. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Read Romans 6, and let me know what you think.

friend of said:

Idk. I think preaching on His grace and Love is just as important as preaching on His wrath and indignation, though.

Click to expand...

I see what you're saying but for one, it's up to him how he teaches, and in a very real sense, the warnings of things to come if we don't get our act together, are pure unselfish love. People who teach that only to be hated by many, a totally selfless act. They even murdered Christ for it, and he knew it was coming but did it anyway, because he loved us.

The tough love is the hardest to receive as well as preach.

People get concerned about the souls of others and teach what they think needs teaching, as they only have so much time. Plus, it all gets taught here at one time or another. At least you aren't saying he shouldn't teach it at all as many would, and it's for them it needs teaching the most.

Yeah, I guess you're right

Kenny'sID said:

At least you aren't saying he shouldn't teach it at all as many would, and it's for them it needs teaching the most.

Click to expand...

Well, I think all pastors/ministers should be prepared to preach on it in the right time and season. Some never do even when the opportunity open and the time is right. I would disagree with that as well.

friend of said:

Well, I think all pastors/ministers should be prepared to preach on it in the right time and season. Some never do even when the opportunity open and the time is right. I would disagree with that as well.

Click to expand...

I agree. There are so many that just want what sounds good to them, and many preachers who are happy to oblige.

The whole truth and nothing but the truth, so, God, help us do that.

Kenny'sID said:

You didn't address the question.

Who told you that?

And in addition, why would you be killed by Jesus if he thought you were going to lose your salvation? There has to be more to that, the reason I asked where you got it from.

It interests me because it's so bizarre a thing to say...and something I have never heard, so I'm concerned for you for who's teaching that.

Click to expand...

The bible technically still teaches that Jesus kills people. Take Ananias and Sapphira for example: Ananias and Sapphira - Wikipedia

The book of Revelation has much more on the subject, but we're really into the OP for the lake of fire and brimstone.

I'm just wondering how much of us are really subject to the OP's warning?

devin553344 said:

I'm just wondering how much of us are really subject to the OP's warning?

Click to expand...

That's a very good question. Even for those who know the truth, it can be a huge struggle, but that coupled with a delusion we might create, or choose to follow because it makes the whole thing much easier, I'm very afraid many of those don't stand a chance.

Proverbs 14:12 (KJV)
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Matthew 5:20 makes me want to run to Jesus and abide in Him: I say to you that unless your righteousness is greater than the righteousness of the legal experts and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven (CEB).

Even when one is "walking with the Lord", it is a daily challenge (and joy if we submit and obey) to walk in a way that is focused on the Messiah and His effect on us as "new creatures" in Him (2 Corinthians 5:17). For me, these verses have the same effect as Matthew 7:2-26. We must rest in the Lord in a way that is real, ready, relying and resolute.