Charismatic vs. Non-Charismatic understanding of the "Gifts of the Spirit"

There are actually 4 (or 5) lists of the "gifts of the Spirit." Not just those you have listed.

You can remember their locations with this: 12 - 12 - 4 - 4 (thank you Chuck Swindoll!)

Romans 12 v6-8
1 Cor 12 (possible 2 lists) v8-11, v28
Eph 4 v11
1 Pet 4 v10-11

Some are clearly supernatural (prophecy, healing, words of wisdom/knowledge, etc) and some are personality traits/skills. (teaching, service, giving, etc)

I find in places that don't like "tongues" they don't mind the interpretation of the verse that instructs one to pray to interpret if they just interpret automatically.
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However, the praying to interpret idea is met with resistance where the "speak in tongues without a translator" idea is popular.
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this is my experience in any case.

The spiritual gifts described in the NT are patterns of how God has chosen to work through people. However, every good thing anyone does comes from God. Nothing constrains him from doing whatever he wants through a believer. He can do anything through anyone, but wants to bless us by including us in what he is doing, even to the point where he gives us responsibilities of our own. What gets people's attention is when his work is supernatural.

In the years before it was possible to find out what gender a pregnant woman's child was (by ultrasound or any other means), I heard of someone whom God used to tell parents what gender their child was. God can do whatever he wants, even if it is not in Scripture.

Jonathan Mathews said:

2) a word of [applied] knowledge - "logos gnoseos"

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The application of knowledge would put it over into "word of wisdom."

"Word of knowledge" is the supernatural revelation of certain facts not known by other means.

In response to the poll, I picked other. The point of gifts is to edify the body of Christ, and bring glory to God.
(edit, and those gifts can be anything the Holy Spirit touches)

Jonathan Mathews said:

7) discerning/judging/distinguishing spirits/breaths - "diakriseis pneumaton"

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I have seen this in action and have operated in it a couple of times (decades ago) myself.

It is intimately tied to the deliverance ministry (expelling demonic spirits) and gives the one ministering understanding into the spirit realm on how to deal with that demon.

Human nature is that we believe what we, ourselves experience.

Can another person change the truth of your experience with God because they have a different experience? Probably not. Your truth does not change because another says they have a different truth.

So if God chooses to work in different people in different ways, does that make them all divided or are they all doing what they have been called to do as they understand it?

I just think all this talk of division in the Christian community is made bigger than it is by the Christian community itself. Is it not the people that say their is a HUGE division that are doubting that God could be working in everyone by calling it a division in the first place?

Plenty of people have shared testimonies but a testimony from someone that God is using in a different way, why would that change the truth of someone else's experience?

Some people believe Benny Hinn. Some don't.

Jonathan Mathews said:

BACKGROUND:
As a Christian, I've been in both "Charismatic" communities and "Non-Charismatic" ones (for lack of a better term). There seems to be a HUGE difference in the way the Gifts of the Spirit are interpreted, used, taught, and experienced in these two types of communities.

GOAL:
I believe that if Christians with varying experiences would come together, share personal testimonies, and learn from each other's experiences in the Word, the Christian Church would be FAR more UNIFIED and COMPLETE, effectually working together with more of God's Power, the Holy Spirit.

To that end, here are the Gifts of the Spirit as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-11

The idea is to copy this list, and add your personal experience(s) underneath each listed Gift of the Spirit.

1) a word of wisdom - "logos sophias"
2) a word of [applied] knowledge - "logos gnoseos"
3) faith, trust, belief, or confidence - "pistis"
4) gifts or favor of healing/remedy/curing - "charismata iamaton"
5) operating or working of power/energy/miracles - "energemata dynameon"
6) prophesying, communicating and enforcing revealed truth - "propheteia"
7) discerning/judging/distinguishing spirits/breaths - "diakriseis pneumaton"
8) family/variety of languages - "gene glosson"
9) interpretation or explanation of languages - "hermaneia glosson"

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The gift is the Holy Spirit. When you consider the preceding verses, Paul makes 3 distinctions:


I see verse 4 as referring to the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit as seen in Corinthians. I see verse 5 as the function of the gifts as seen in Ephesians, and I see verse 6 as the talents given at birth as seen in Romans.

These 3 distinctions blend together. A natural teacher (Rom. 12:7) is more likely to hold the function of a teacher (Eph. 4:11) and will be more inclined to move by the prompting of the Spirit in the Word of Wisdom (1 Cor. 12:8).

But we are the ones who determine the use of the gifts. Fear will hinder some in using their gifts. Ignorance or wrong belief can be another hindrance.

Like you I have been in both "charismatic" and "evangelical" congregations. Chapter 13 is the unifying chapter. Chapter 12 speaks of the gathering of a congregation functioning in the gifts whereas Chapter 14 makes the argument for using those gifts that edify the congregation: tongues edify the speaker but not the group, whereas prophesy edifies the group and even non believers if they come into the group. So why is Chapter 13 on love sandwiched between the two chapters? Because love determines which gifts edify the group the most.

While in congregations that don't believe the gifts are for today, I speak in terms they understood. I have prophecised in a Baptist group, but it was couched in a prayer and not announced as a prophecy. The person I prayed for told me later that she recognized that the Lord was speaking to her through my prayer.

Unity comes from loving people as they are and lets the Lord make the changes as He sees needed.

The thing is - ALL of the gifts, whether supernatural or natural in essence, still require the divine empowering of the Holy Spirit to properly function in the body.

Jonathan Mathews said:

VERY INTERESTING!!! I'm not making any accusations, but I would imagine a false "messenger" would not want anyone filled with the Holy Spirit interpreting their "message" LOL

I obeyed God in a service once and TERRIFIED the 'pastor'. I was sitting in the upper balcony and we were worshiping and just as God's presence filled the sanctuary, the 'pastor' took the microphone and changed the topic to himself, and God's VANISHED in a hurry (or so I perceived it). For 10 minutes the Holy Spirit nudged me to "stand. I want you to stand" and I resisted out of fear of being seen, but when I finally stood, God physically overpowered me and I cried out "Jehovah!" so loud it echoed several times across a 1,500 person sanctuary. I was shaking in physical weakness, and the 'pastor' was TERRIFIED. More than anyone else. He took the mic and said in a stammering voice... "I..I don't know what God is doing" and they took me out of the service by force, called the police/fire/ambulance who interrogated me for about 10 minutes and sent me away.

1 month later, that pastor and the other 1/3 of the pastors were exposed for multiple sexual relationships over 15 years, and stealing by raising their own salaries without anyone knowing.

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Yeah, getting cast out of a church when you're following the Holy Spirit's leading tends to shine light where there is darkness, the effects are unpredictable.

Jonathan Mathews said:

VERY INTERESTING!!! I'm not making any accusations, but I would imagine a false "messenger" would not want anyone filled with the Holy Spirit interpreting their "message" LOL

I obeyed God in a service once and TERRIFIED the 'pastor'. I was sitting in the upper balcony and we were worshiping and just as God's presence filled the sanctuary, the 'pastor' took the microphone and changed the topic to himself, and God's VANISHED in a hurry (or so I perceived it). For 10 minutes the Holy Spirit nudged me to "stand. I want you to stand" and I resisted out of fear of being seen, but when I finally stood, God physically overpowered me and I cried out "Jehovah!" so loud it echoed several times across a 1,500 person sanctuary. I was shaking in physical weakness, and the 'pastor' was TERRIFIED. More than anyone else. He took the mic and said in a stammering voice... "I..I don't know what God is doing" and they took me out of the service by force, called the police/fire/ambulance who interrogated me for about 10 minutes and sent me away.

1 month later, that pastor and the other 1/3 of the pastors were exposed for multiple sexual relationships over 15 years, and stealing by raising their own salaries without anyone knowing.

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Interesting story.

I have been carried out of places also in the air and I have had so called “pastors” attack me physically rip my clothes, lift me in the air. That one tine the pastor (so called) tried to tell me to leave the assembly and that this wasn’t the right place for me . But the Lord sent me there for some work to do among them. We were in a study in the basement of a large Babylonian building unbiblically called “a church” and he took me behind the curtain to try and get his secret evil plan to work. But I corrected him with scripture. He got red in the face and tried to call another elder over to agree with him. But the Elder agreed with me. This got the large pastor upset, he was a very big tall man and so in a red face of fury he tried grabbing me and physically throwing me out. My clothes were ripped after this and then he grabbed me around the waist and lifted me up over his shoulders. I am a tall man but he was taller and very big bones and heavy. As he was trying to lift me out and carry me down the hall my feet were pushing against the doors. I pointed to him and said to all that watched on” this is wrong, this is your pastor he is wrong what he is doing”. Something to that effect. Then he threw me out and closed the door. I rebuked him and went my way. The next day he phoned me trembling under the power and conviction of God and said he was wrong for what he did. But the thing is he did not bring this apology before the church and shortly after he was no longer a minister.

I have had these type of things happen on different occasions. The places I am sent to I speak about various things. But I often speak of God’s order and body ministry to one another in Christ. This causes uproars and mobs and screaming rage.

Sad state many are in today.

Jonathan Mathews said:

VERY INTERESTING!!! I'm not making any accusations, but I would imagine a false "messenger" would not want anyone filled with the Holy Spirit interpreting their "message" LOL

I obeyed God in a service once and TERRIFIED the 'pastor'. I was sitting in the upper balcony and we were worshiping and just as God's presence filled the sanctuary, the 'pastor' took the microphone and changed the topic to himself, and God's VANISHED in a hurry (or so I perceived it). For 10 minutes the Holy Spirit nudged me to "stand. I want you to stand" and I resisted out of fear of being seen, but when I finally stood, God physically overpowered me and I cried out "Jehovah!" so loud it echoed several times across a 1,500 person sanctuary. I was shaking in physical weakness, and the 'pastor' was TERRIFIED. More than anyone else. He took the mic and said in a stammering voice... "I..I don't know what God is doing" and they took me out of the service by force, called the police/fire/ambulance who interrogated me for about 10 minutes and sent me away.

1 month later, that pastor and the other 1/3 of the pastors were exposed for multiple sexual relationships over 15 years, and stealing by raising their own salaries without anyone knowing.

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And when any church or pastor (so called) today tried to call the police on a brother speaking in the gatherings they fight against God and are in sin.

We read that all are commanded to use thier gifts and speak freely at any time as they are led. But sadly these carnal men trust in the world and their association with them. They are regulated by governments for tax exemption and other issues. They accept the worlds laws in the church and end up charging or calling police if a man speaks in the gathering. Speaking words as a person is led is not physical threat.

1 Corinthians 14:24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.26. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.27. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.28. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.29. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.30. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted....36. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.”

1 Peter 4:10. As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.11. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.12. Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:13. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.14. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified...16. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.17. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

Isaiah 30:1. Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:2. That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!3. Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.”

Postvieww said:

I think your approach to this topic is to be commended. Error on both side of this issue has led to division and misunderstanding and ultimately the body of Christ has missed out on many available blessings.

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God's method of evangelizing is to preach
the gospel with signs, wonders, and miracles
following >> to confirm the Truth of the gospel.
The 9 gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12
are all a part of this!

With NO gifts of the Spirit, there are fewer
salvations and fewer people healed of all
manner of physical, mental, emotional,
and spiritual problems!