This is how the MATH adds up.

GodsGrace101

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Lead us in the right path with your own words, if you believe the words here are misleading.
I'm concerned for this new teaching that says we need do nothing.

I noticed that @Zetetica 's signature line says to be perfect - as our Father is perfect.

Now she's stated that @DeepWater sounds right with his OSAS idea.

Her signature line and his idea don't match.
She probably had it right before....wanting to please God with her good actions/deeds.

My way is to do what Jesus told us to do...
John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


This tell us that there are commandments He expects us to keep. And Jesus also tells us that His commandments are not burdensome...but it is required that they be kept. (to the best of our ability).
 
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GodsGrace101

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No, you have to be a flawless mathematician, because if you get the formula wrong...you are lost...
Actually the member to whom I was replying has a signature line that says we are to be perfect.
I've never stated this.

Being a flawless mathematician would be akin, I think, to having doctrine correct.

I don't believe doctrine saves us,,,I believe Jesus does.
However I do believe this modern - you don't have to do anything - doctrine is very dangerous, besides not being correct, it can actually cause some to wander from our faith and become lost.
 
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GodsGrace101

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So, many are counting on Jesus to save them?
But not you.
Ok, i got it.
That explains your theology.
"Legalism".
You DW, are MORE of a legalist than I'll ever be.
YOU aspire to the idea that if someone has their theology wrong they are lost.

YOU claim that those that follow their Lord are NOT saved...while those NOT following their Lord are saved.

Sounds a bit mixed up and convoluted to me....
 
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GodsGrace101

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God accepts what Christ did on the Cross, on your behalf, to then accept you.
You have nothing to do with this., at all, unless you hung on the cross as the Sinless Son of God.

The only "work" you can do that God will accept is "believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shall be saved", as this is the "word of God".
I've already asked you this once before and you didn't reply.

What does BELIEVE mean?
Do you think it has anything to do with DOING what Jesus asks of you?

John 14 is full of Jesus telling us we are to follow His commandments.

Was He lying?
 
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RaymondG

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I'm concerned for this new teaching that says we need do nothing.

I noticed that @Zetetica 's signature line says to be perfect - as our Father is perfect.

Now she's stated that @DeepWater sounds right with his OSAS idea.

Her signature line and his idea don't match.
She probably had it right before....wanting to please God with her good actions/deeds.

My way is to do what Jesus told us to do...
John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


This tell us that there are commandments He expects us to keep. And Jesus also tells us that His commandments are not burdensome...but it is required that they be kept. (to the best of our ability).
I wouldnt underestimate the difficulty involved in doing nothing........It is much easier to do something than it is to do nothing.....
 
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timewerx

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I wouldnt underestimate the difficulty involved in doing nothing........It is much easier to do something than it is to do nothing.....

Probably not what he meant but I agree.

@DeepWater posts is misleading. I am also getting the idea that we should do nothing, according to his posts that doing something is bad.

Keep in mind, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for doing nothing and then the Pharisees rebuked Jesus for doing something! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees. Definitely a red flag alert!
 
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RaymondG

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Probably not what he meant but I agree.

@DeepWater posts is misleading. I am also getting the idea that we should do nothing, according to his posts that doing something is bad.

Keep in mind, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for doing nothing and then the Pharisees rebuked Jesus for doing something! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees. Definitely a red flag alert!
Continue to do all you can to get saved, stayed saved, be saved and get to heaven. I see nothing wrong with this. I also happen to see nothing wrong with those who choose to stand still and see the salvation of the Lord........
 
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Zetetica

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I'm concerned for this new teaching that says we need do nothing.

I noticed that @Zetetica 's signature line says to be perfect - as our Father is perfect.

Now she's stated that @DeepWater sounds right with his OSAS idea.

Her signature line and his idea don't match.
She probably had it right before....wanting to please God with her good actions/deeds.

My way is to do what Jesus told us to do...
John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


This tell us that there are commandments He expects us to keep. And Jesus also tells us that His commandments are not burdensome...but it is required that they be kept. (to the best of our ability).
The two don't conflict for me. I try to obey because I love God. I'm not saved because I obey. If that was so, I could boast that my obedience saved me and not Christ. Seeking to be perfect for me isn't about being saved through seeking to be perfect. I already have the imputed righteousness of Christ.
 
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GodsGrace101

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The two don't conflict for me. I try to obey because I love God. I'm not saved because I obey. If that was so, I could boast that my obedience saved me and not Christ. Seeking to be perfect for me isn't about being saved through seeking to be perfect. I already have the imputed righteousness of Christ.
Who said you get saved by obeying?
Who said works save a person?
 
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fhansen

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I wanted to show you something, that might be a huge revelation to someone with a sincere heart, who has not realized an unfortunate fact regarding their own personal (Christian) belief system.

Lets do the math.
It works out like this......

What is your personal Savior ????

Let me show you a few worldwide favorites that wont work out, in the end..

----------------------------

A person says......"we believe that salvation is the Cross, but that you can "fall away" and be lost.

A.) The savior is always what YOU BELIEVE KEEPS YOU SAVED.
So, in this case, the Savior to this person has become...>"not falling away".
So, where did the Cross go?

or,

A person says.....>"he who endures to the end, the same shall be saved".

A.) for this person, their Savior is "ENDURING to the end".
So, where did the Cross go?

or,

A person says.....> "As long as you hold unto your FAITH, you are still saved".

A.) for this person, holding unto their faith is their personal Savior.
So, where did the Cross go?

or,

A person says....> "As long as i KEEP ON working out my salvation with fear and trembling, i stay saved.

A.) this person is trusting in their lifestyle as their personal Savior.
So, where did the Cross go?


or,

A person says...."As long as i dont apostatize or backslide, i stay saved.

A.) This person is trusting in keeping themselves from apostatizing or backsliding as their personal Savior.
So, where did the Cross go?


Now see how that works?
In all 5 cases the MATH seems good, but the end result is DEVOUT LEGALISM.
This is Christ rejection pretending its the Faith that God accepts.
Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians to expose it.
The end result : is that all these types have "fallen from Grace".
The end result : is that all these people have replaced the CROSS with what they are to DO, as their particular heretical method to try keep themselves saved.



blessings,


<dw><
Hmm...by your math the question can still be asked> "Some people apparently go to hell-where did the Cross go?"
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Now see how that works?
In all 5 cases the MATH seems good, but the end result is DEVOUT LEGALISM.

I was disappointed to see that your thread didn't contain any actual math, so I took the liberty of writing out the formula that expresses what you just said:

full

where n is any natural (finite) number.

Where the judgment is based on a perfect standard (x in the denominator) and we are saved by the perfect sacrifice of Christ (x in the numerator) our finite contributions (n) cannot add to or subtract from the outcome. We are either 100% saved through Christ, or we do not have Christ.
 
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Tone

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Actually the member to whom I was replying has a signature line that says we are to be perfect.
I've never stated this.

Being a flawless mathematician would be akin, I think, to having doctrine correct.

I don't believe doctrine saves us,,,I believe Jesus does.
However I do believe this modern - you don't have to do anything - doctrine is very dangerous, besides not being correct, it can actually cause some to wander from our faith and become lost.

I was using a little sarcasm directed @DeepWater's math...sorry.
 
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Tone

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I gotcha.
Just changed the MATH
to DOCTRINE.

Works out the same...

I was just pointing to the irony of @DeepWater showing flaws in how people think about salvation, and saying that nothing we can do will secure or aid us in it...yet, he is helping us with the math of it...so...
 
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GodsGrace101

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I was just pointing to the irony of @DeepWater showing flaws in how people think about salvation, and saying that nothing we can do will secure or aid us in it...yet, he is helping us with the math of it...so...
I'm finding some persons to be pretty scary....!
(and they pass it on)
 
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Tone

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I'm finding some persons to be pretty scary....!
(and they pass it on)


I'm not even saying that he's necessarily wrong...at least, not in everything...it's just the reasoning behind it.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I'm not even saying that he's necessarily wrong...at least, not in everything...it's just the reasoning behind it.
I agree.
We are to depend on Jesus.
He has wiped the slate clean.
We can do nothing without Him and/or the Holy Spirit.
We do what we can and if we cannot we don't.
Nothing depends on the amount of what we do.
It's our faith that saves us.

It does bother me, however, when I hear persons say that nothing is required of us. What is required of us is to obey God. Can't we even agree on this?
 
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