Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

Could Elijah have altered history for the better?????

  • No.... Elijah was perfect like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and never sinned!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes.... if he had faced Queen Jezebel and done a II King 1 sort of thing!

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • No

    Votes: 5 71.4%
  • Yes

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • I sure hope that he does better this time around!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

DennisTate

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Why? They are not gospel, at best they 'might be' encouraging, at worst down right lies.

You are better off reading the reasonablefaith blog, q+a etc than looking at nde.

Or... .the ones that include the Life Review with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could be the fulfillment of this promise:

Jhn 16:25


These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."


and this promise:
Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

and this promise:

Jhn 5:22

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

and this promise from the Catholic Bible:

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Baruch Chapter 6


[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Or perhaps near death experience accounts that include a Life Review could be the fulfillment of this extremely important promise made by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus during his ministry as a human in Judaea.

Jhn 16:25

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
When this happens to someone outside of Christ, in a cult,
as is much more common than in Christ, in Truth,
it is deceptive, and is a fulfillment of Scripture also , as written >

All those things(vision and teachings and practices) people fall for, in or associated with the like Buddhism, Universalism, etc outside of Christ
are ruining their faith, keeping them from true belief, keeping others they affect from finding the truth, thus harming multitudes today, actively and often shamelessly with no twinge of conscience nor conviction, not knowing in themselves at all what is truth and having no part in the Light , no part in Jesus.
 
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DennisTate

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When this happens to someone outside of Christ, in a cult,
as is much more common than in Christ, in Truth,
it is deceptive, and is a fulfillment of Scripture also , as written >

All those things(vision and teachings and practices) people fall for, in or associated with the like Buddhism, Universalism, etc outside of Christ
are ruining their faith, keeping them from true belief, keeping others they affect from finding the truth, thus harming multitudes today, actively and often shamelessly with no twinge of conscience nor conviction, not knowing in themselves at all what is truth and having no part in the Light , no part in Jesus.

Interesting..... so does this mean that you think that Isaiah 45
is almost irrelevant to understanding the nature of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus????

It seems to me that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his immortal form.... met former Atheist Howard Storm and judged him............ with mercy due to his ignorance?
 
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DennisTate

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Why build it?
As Jesus said:-
john:4-21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Note verse 24, no mention of needing a temple, ritual or sacrifices.


I could be wrong..... I often am......
and I admit that all eight billion humans on this earth are temples of the Holy Spirit and......

the ultimate will of G-d is to take over in every single human heart, mind, body and soul.........

but...... I just can't argue with the gifted man from Uganda who links a closer relationship between Christians and Jews with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on all flesh.....


I quote him in post #1 here.....

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?
 
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DennisTate

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No ... the fate of men is in the hands of the Lord ... Who is able to work all things to the good ...

But..... what IF G-d has delegated significant power over our own lives to us humans??????

Did Adam and Eve have the freedom to NOT take of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil???????
 
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DennisTate

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This is interesting indeed:

The Future and the Near-Death Experience
blue_dot.gif
During Karen Schaeffer's NDE, she was shown her children's future as it would exist if she decided to remain in the light. Because she decided to return, the future she was shown did not happen. This suggests that the future is always changing from moment to moment based upon our current actions and decisions. This principle supports quantum mechanic principles.



blue_dot.gif
One of Margot Grey's NDE research subjects stated:


"During my experience ... I was also shown events that are likely to happen in the near future, but was made to understand that nothing is absolutely fixed and that everything depends on how we choose to use our own free will, that even those events that are already predestined can be changed or modified by a change in our own way of relating to them." (Grey, 1985, p. 123)


blue_dot.gif
NDE experiencer Howard Storm was given information on how the future is not fixed:


"We have free will. If we change the way we are, then we can change the future which they showed me. They showed me a view of the future, at the time of my experience, based upon how we in the United States were behaving at that time. It was a future in which a massive worldwide depression would occur. If we were to change our behavior, however, then the future would be different." (Howard Storm)

multicolored_dot.gif
Howard Storm was also told how a single person can change the world:


"All it takes to make a change was one person. One person, trying, and then because of that, another person changing for the better. They said that the only way to change the world was to begin with one person. One will become two, which will become three, and so on. That's the only way to affect a major change" (Howard Storm)


blue_dot.gif
During Ricky Randolph's NDE, he was told virtually the same thing:


"You must return and help others to change by changing your life!" (Ricky Randolph)


blue_dot.gif
Dannion Brinkley was told how the future is conditional upon human beings:


"If you follow what you have been taught and keep living the same way you have lived the last thirty years, all of this will surely be upon you. If you change, you can avoid the coming war. If you follow this dogma, the world by the year 2004 will not be the same one you now know. But it can still be changed and you can help change it." (Dannion Brinkley)


Brinkley was also told that the future is not cast in stone:


"The flow of human events can be changed, but first people have to know what they are." (Dannion Brinkley)


Brinkley also gives the following advice on how people can change the world:


"The quickest way to change the world is to be of service to others. Show that your love can make a difference in the lives of people and thereby someone else's love can make a difference in your life. By each of us doing that and working together we change the world one inner person at a time." (Dannion Brinkley)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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DennisTate

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I think that might have happened in a universe where Moses didn't strike the rock with his rod.

That is actually an exceptionally good point!!!!!!!!!

You really and truly are catching onto this......... because Moses striking the rock might perhaps have been symbolic of how some of his descendants would strike.......... rather than point to..... the metaphorical ROCK!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I could be wrong..... I often am......
and I admit that all eight billion humans on this earth are temples of the Holy Spirit and......

As stated, that is wrong. Why "admit" a total error, contrary to all Scripture, unless someone believes worse error still, like perhaps a different gospel ......
 
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As stated, that is wrong. Why "admit" a total error, contrary to all Scripture, unless someone believes worse error still, like perhaps a different gospel ......

If we NAIL DOWN Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to merely ONE fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter 37...... and to ONE time line.......... might Messiah Yeshua / Jesus NOT be entirely thrilled to be nailed down in that way?

Why would this matter?

Because in non-linear time.... where more and more and more and more of the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh in multiple time lines..... . G-d can get closer and closer and closer and closer to......

Romans 11

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

7 What then? that which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened: 8 according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, And a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, And bow thou down their back always.

11 I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if their fall, is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry; 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy [them that are] my flesh, and may save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them [is] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?

16 And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree; 18 glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

30 For as ye in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31 even so have these also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they also may now obtain mercy.

32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!



Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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But..... what IF G-d has delegated significant power over our own lives to us humans??????

Did Adam and Eve have the freedom to NOT take of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil???????
What is the original source of the illusion(s) referred to in your posts , if you remember ?

People (humans) are slaves. There is no exception.

Free will is by sheer grace when anyone has it - and in some ways perhaps people have

a kind of free will within their sphere of living.

Turn to Yahuweh for His Kingdom is at hand, is what Yahushua told His disciples and the crowds also - He preached and told and described Yahuweh's Kingdom for people to seek.
 
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DennisTate

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What is the original source of the illusion(s) referred to in your posts , if you remember ?

People (humans) are slaves. There is no exception.

Free will is by sheer grace when anyone has it - and in some ways perhaps people have

a kind of free will within their sphere of living.

Turn to Yahuweh for His Kingdom is at hand, is what Yahushua told His disciples and the crowds also - He preached and told and described Yahuweh's Kingdom for people to seek.

A sermon that I heard in 1979 plus.....
I Kings 18
I Kings 19
and
2Kings 1


10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.


11 And again he sent unto him another captain of fifty and his fifty. And he answered and said unto him, O man of God, thus hath the king said, Come down quickly.

12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

13 And again he sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

14 Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and consumed the two former captains of fifty with their fifties; but now let my life be precious in thy sight.

15 And the angel of Jehovah said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king.


Basically the question of the sermon was IF.... a similar miracle to fire from heaven....... could have occurred at the right time of the fire from heaven that consumed the sacrifice..... would the Northern Kingdom of Israel have turned back to G-d.... ???
 
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Deuteronomy 5:29 "O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"


Deuteronomy 30:1


And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
 
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The prayer of King Solomon at the dedication of the Temple indicates the tremendous power of prayer and repentance to alter the future of G-d people for the miraculously better.....

Christian Forums

12 Then spake Solomon, Jehovah hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.


13 I have surely built thee a house of habitation, a place for thee to dwell in for ever.

14 And the king turned his face about, and blessed all the assembly of Israel: and all the assembly of Israel stood.

15 And he said, Blessed be Jehovah, the God of Israel, who spake with his mouth unto David thy father, and hath with his hand fulfilled it, saying, 16 Since the day that I brought forth my people Israel out of Egypt, I chose no city out of all the tribes of Israel to build a house, that my name might be there; but I chose David to be over my people Israel.

17 Now it was in the heart of David my father to build a house for the name of Jehovah, the God of Israel.

18 But Jehovah said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thy heart to build a house for my name, thou didst well that it was in thy heart: 19 nevertheless thou shalt not build the house; but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house for my name.

20 And Jehovah hath established his word that he spake; for I am risen up in the room of David my father, and sit on the throne of Israel, as Jehovah promised, and have built the house for the name of Jehovah, the God of Israel.

21 And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.

22 And Solomon stood before the altar of Jehovah in the presence of all the assembly of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven; 23 and he said, O Jehovah, the God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath; who keepest covenant and lovingkindness with thy servants, that walk before thee with all their heart; 24 who hast kept with thy servant David my father that which thou didst promise him: yea, thou spakest with thy mouth, and hast fulfilled it with thy hand, as it is this day.

25 Now therefore, O Jehovah, the God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel, if only thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me as thou hast walked before me.

26 Now therefore, O God of Israel, let thy word, I pray thee, be verified, which thou spakest unto thy servant David my father.

27 But will God in very deed dwell on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded!

28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O Jehovah my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee this day; 29 that thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place whereof thou hast said, My name shall be there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall pray toward this place.

30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling-place; and when thou hearest, forgive.

31 If a man sin against his neighbor, and an oath be laid upon him to cause him to swear, and he come [and] swear before thine altar in this house; 32 then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his own head, and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.

33 When thy people Israel are smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee; if they turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray and make supplication unto thee in this house: 34 then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest unto their fathers.

35 When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou dost afflict them: 36 then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, when thou teachest them the good way wherein they should walk; and send rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance.

37 If there be in the land famine, if there be pestilence, if there be blasting [or] mildew, locust [or] caterpillar; if their enemy besiege them in the land of their cities; whatsoever plague, whatsoever sickness there be; 38 what prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, [or] by all thy people Israel, who shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house: 39 then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling-place, and forgive, and do, and render unto every man according to all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;) 40 that they may fear thee all the days that they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers.

41 Moreover concerning the foreigner, that is not of thy people Israel, when he shall come out of a far country for thy name's sake 42 (for they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy mighty hand, and of thine outstretched arm); when he shall come and pray toward this house; 43 hear thou in heaven thy dwelling-place, and do according to all that the foreigner calleth to thee for; that all the peoples of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as doth thy people Israel, and that they may know that this house which I have built is called by my name.

44 If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, by whatsoever way thou shalt send them, and they pray unto Jehovah toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for thy name; 45 then hear thou in heaven their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause.

46 If they sin against thee (for there is no man that sinneth not), and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captive unto the land of the enemy, far off or near; 47 yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they are carried captive, and turn again, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captive, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have dealt wickedly; 48 if they return unto thee with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies, who carried them captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49 then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling-place, and maintain their cause; 50 and forgive thy people who have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee; and give them compassion before those who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them 51 (for they are thy people, and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest forth out of Egypt, from the midst of the furnace of iron); 52 that thine eyes may be open unto the supplication of thy servant, and unto the supplication of thy people Israel, to hearken unto them whensoever they cry unto thee.

53 For thou didst separate them from among all the peoples of the earth, to be thine inheritance, as thou spakest by Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord Jehovah.

54 And it was so, that, when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto Jehovah, he arose from before the altar of Jehovah, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread forth toward heaven.

55 And he stood, and blessed all the assembly of Israel with a loud voice, saying, 56 Blessed be Jehovah, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by Moses his servant.
 
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Multiverse in the context of quantum mechanics is actually an atheist attempt to explain out the fine tuning of our universe.

They say there are all universes, ones with fine tuning for life and also other ones without it. When subatomic particle "makes a choice", the other possibility happens in another universe.

True..... that is how Atheists understand it......
but we Theists can look at chapter thirteen of "Stephen Hawking's Universe' and we can think in terms of Ezekiel 37 perhaps happening again and again and again and again........

after the one hour mark in this text video there is an excellent explanation of how events can be altered if we will begin to at least pray for others........


 
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Why build it?
As Jesus said:-
john:4-21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Note verse 24, no mention of needing a temple, ritual or sacrifices.


One reason is that the USA, Israel and the world may be in a two decade long time of great blessing in which it will be easy to begin construction of either an Ezekiel temple structure and / or a Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

The fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter forty seven is crucial to the world in so many ways that the impression I have is that if we Christians will assist Jews to fulfill Ezekiel chapters forty to forty seven............. a billion or more lives can be saved....... and all eight billion lives of all humans on this earth can be improved................ (Animals will benefit as well)!
 
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One reason is that the USA, Israel and the world may be in a two decade long time of great blessing in which it will be easy to begin construction of either an Ezekiel temple structure and / or a Third Temple on the Temple Mount.

The fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter forty seven is crucial to the world in so many ways that the impression I have is that if we Christians will assist Jews to fulfill Ezekiel chapters forty to forty seven............. a billion or more lives can be saved....... and all eight billion lives of all humans on this earth can be improved................ (Animals will benefit as well)!

No God doesn't bless nations today because they build temples.
He blesses them because they obey him.

Jesus said, 'If YOU LOVE ME, you will Obey me.'
 
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DennisTate

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No God doesn't bless nations today because they build temples.
He blesses them because they obey him.

Jesus said, 'If YOU LOVE ME, you will Obey me.'

But if you were Jewish.... you would feel that it is your duty to fulfill Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight!
 
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Tolworth John

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But if you were Jewish.... you would feel that it is your duty to fulfill Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight!

Strange how israel is not rebuilding the temple, it is only certain evangelical groups that are getting there knickers in a twist about the temple.
 
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Yahkov

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Listen to your sentence. Read it carefully. What you are saying is Christians should bless and sanction the building of a third temple so that the Jewish people can be "tricked" into worshiping an "antichrist". How is that a commandment from Jesus Christ of Nazareth? Seriously, this is the main reason I left dispensatinal theology. I want no part in causing the Jewish people that I care and love so much, to be led astray into darkness and not into the light of the TRUTH. Spread the "GOOD NEWS"!
( I can barley keep my tears back)

I am not in support of them building a temple so they can worship in it. I am in support of them building a temple so that Scripture will be fulfilled, which we see a temple spoken about in Revelation. I suppose a clear example would be when Jesus told his apostles to acquire some swords. He didn't tell them to get swords so they can kill, he told them to get swords so that Scripture would be fulfilled. Yet even with the reasoning given, Jesus was well aware of their hearts and rebuked Peter for using the sword.
 
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