Jesus isn't Catholic

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Upvote 0

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Clever. I take that to mean you have no earthly overseer such as the apostle Paul commissioned Timothy to set up.

There is a head pastor of the assembly I am departing for soon...if that's what you mean.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,444
8,397
up there
✟303,917.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It was authorized by Jesus when he gave the keys to Peter. The Keys are handed on, intended to be handed on, intended until Jesus returns.
And so began the battle between Jew and Gentile who would come out on top and carry that on. Kind of like when Judah broke away from Israel and both claimed their own 'Davids" and line to the Messiah.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Tone
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
And so began the battle between Jew and Gentile who would come out on top and carry that on. Kind of like when Judah broke away from Israel and both claimed their own 'Davids" and line to the Messiah.
So where did those Keys go?
 
Upvote 0

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
That's kind of what I mean.

Yeah, and I just got back from the meeting place...and everyone was leaving. Unbeknownst to me, they started a few hours earlier, because the pastor's daughter has wedding rehearsals this afternoon. So, here I am back with you all...so let's have some fellowship, huh! And since we are here (a sort of diaspora)...we can rest assured that our Overseer is the Adon Yahshua ha Mashiach and who are the earthly overseers...the moderators perhaps?
 
Upvote 0

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
So where did those Keys go?

"(3) In Revelation 3:7 Christ appears in the character, "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key (singular) of David, he that openeth and none can shut, and that shutteth and none openeth." The idea is not restricted but indicates mastery over all things in the Messianic kingdom, its own operations and all forms of opposition. In the next verse, as a specific instance, He has set before the church at Philadelphia an open door (opportunity and progress) which none can shut. Compare as to this Ephesians 1:22.

(4) It seems to be taken for granted that Jesus, in Matthew 16:19, had direct reference to Isaiah 22:22, yet the passage is not Messianic except in a general sense and on the assumption that the power of Yahweh over the nations in the Old Testament is wielded by the Christ in the New Testament (see JEHOVAH; LORD). Eliakim is to have absolute power, holding the key of the house of David. The use of the words "open" and "shut," as well as the general conception, connects the passage rather with Revelation 3:7.

(5) Revelation 9:1; Revelation 20:1 are to be taken together. "The key of the pit of the abyss" in the hands of the angel or angels signifies, in these specific circumstances, the same power as that indicated in 1:18.

(6) In Luke 11:52 Jesus pronounces a woe upon the "lawyers" who had "taken away the key of knowledge" from the people, neither entering in nor allowing those about to go in, to enter. The knowledge of God and Divine things was in the control, in great measure, of these scribes. This connects the figure directly with the idea of Matthew 16:19, and the connection is emphasized by comparing Matthew 23:2 ff; and is made definite by the word of Jesus in Matthew 13:52 with which is to be compared Luke 12:42, where it would not be allowable, to suppose that Jesus meant to limit the idea of "the faithful and wise steward" to Peter. This passage with the references seems to be highly important for our subject."
Topical Bible: Keys


Luke 12
"“Lord,” said Peter, “are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?” 42And the Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their portion at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whom his master finds doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions."

I guess it would depend on the answer to Peter's question above. Who is the faithful and wise manager? Have you lost your set of keys?

*Or should I say "your key"?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Yeah, and I just got back from the meeting place...and everyone was leaving. Unbeknownst to me, they started a few hours earlier, because the pastor's daughter has wedding rehearsals this afternoon. So, here I am back with you all...so let's have some fellowship, huh! And since we are here (a sort of diaspora)...we can rest assured that our Overseer is the Adon Yahshua ha Mashiach and who are the earthly overseers...the moderators perhaps?
Yes, this diaspora of electrons.

I don't know if the moderators are actual overseers, but more like playground monitors.

At least I won't have to worry about my priest canceling mass tomorrow at our meeting place for his daughter's wedding preparations. He is celibate. As is the assistant. And the retired priest who helps out. I suppose other surprises could happen.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Tone
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tone

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."
Supporter
Dec 24, 2018
15,128
6,906
California
✟61,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Yes, this diaspora of electrons.

I don't know if the moderators are actual overseers, but more like playground monitors.

At least I won't have to worry about my priest canceling mass tomorrow at our meeting place for his daughter's wedding preparations. He is celibate. As is the assistant. And the retired priest who helps out. I suppose other surprises could happen.

The service wasn't canceled, it was conducted earlier than usual.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
"(3) In Revelation 3:7 Christ appears in the character, "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key (singular) of David, he that openeth and none can shut, and that shutteth and none openeth." The idea is not restricted but indicates mastery over all things in the Messianic kingdom, its own operations and all forms of opposition. In the next verse, as a specific instance, He has set before the church at Philadelphia an open door (opportunity and progress) which none can shut. Compare as to this Ephesians 1:22.

(4) It seems to be taken for granted that Jesus, in Matthew 16:19, had direct reference to Isaiah 22:22, yet the passage is not Messianic except in a general sense and on the assumption that the power of Yahweh over the nations in the Old Testament is wielded by the Christ in the New Testament (see JEHOVAH; LORD). Eliakim is to have absolute power, holding the key of the house of David. The use of the words "open" and "shut," as well as the general conception, connects the passage rather with Revelation 3:7.

(5) Revelation 9:1; Revelation 20:1 are to be taken together. "The key of the pit of the abyss" in the hands of the angel or angels signifies, in these specific circumstances, the same power as that indicated in 1:18.

(6) In Luke 11:52 Jesus pronounces a woe upon the "lawyers" who had "taken away the key of knowledge" from the people, neither entering in nor allowing those about to go in, to enter. The knowledge of God and Divine things was in the control, in great measure, of these scribes. This connects the figure directly with the idea of Matthew 16:19, and the connection is emphasized by comparing Matthew 23:2 ff; and is made definite by the word of Jesus in Matthew 13:52 with which is to be compared Luke 12:42, where it would not be allowable, to suppose that Jesus meant to limit the idea of "the faithful and wise steward" to Peter. This passage with the references seems to be highly important for our subject."
Topical Bible: Keys


Luke 12
"“Lord,” said Peter, “are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?” 42And the Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their portion at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whom his master finds doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions."

I guess it would depend on the answer to Peter's question above. Who is the faithful and wise manager? Have you lost your set of keys?

*Or should I say "your key"?
Good post. And you noted Eliakim, the secretary of Shebna in the household of Hezekiah. Shebna lost favor and so the keys were given to Eliakim instead.

Your closing question, is of course about a parable, and as such one has to be careful about stretching any analogies too far. But the manager would be the one to whom the keys to the household would be given.

As to the commentary you quoted, it seems to have an anti-Peter bias. The keys appear from the Bible to have been given to Peter alone. Various other authorities were given to the Twelve, including binding and loosing. But the keys only to Peter. So at the death of Peter, who got the keys?

Peter was appointed by Jesus to be prime minister of the Church, with the other apostles as ministers with the prime minister. And the succession from the apostles conveys the authority of those ministers to their successors the bishops. It is an authority for the benefit of the whole Church, and which will and must exist until the return of the King.

Here is some information I discovered along the way: St. Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Primacy of Rome in the Early Church
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
Well.. still using keys.
I have just purchased a used car that has keyless entry and keyless ignition as long as I have the fob with me. A whole new experience. I keep reaching into my pocket for the key, but I don't need to.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums