Rightly dividing some of Hebrews Chapter 10 (Legalists)

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

As ive posted many times on this Forum, ....the fact that Legalists (all live in the wrong parts of Hebrews, (Ch 6 & 10) ......Matthew (before the Cross),...... James, and the Old Testament.
They are really quite unacquainted with Paul.
If they were a student of Paul, who said, "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".... it would be because they have been taught correct "Pauline Theology".
If they knew anything about Paul, they would know that Jesus took Paul aside, and no other Apostle, and taught him "justification by faith", and 99% of the doctrine of the Church.
So, when you are a student of the NT, you are a student of Paul, and from Paul, you learn "sound doctrine".

If you have not been taught what i just showed you, then you are lost in the theological weeds, and that is why you have no idea about Grace, and can't even talk about it.
You can't even discuss the Blood Atonement, or "justification by Faith".
You will have no idea that Jesus is not only your Righteousness, but He is your redemption, and your sanctification and your justification, BEFORE GOD. .. In the EYES of God.
If you are a legalist, all of this basic "Christianity 101" is Chinese to you.
Its a language you dont speak or comprehend, and you will not be speaking it any time soon, unless you find someone like me to teach you, or you get away from whatever cult, church, or spiritually corrupted people who have led you into the dark..... and find the LIGHT.
As, they will be happy to keep you right there with them in their darkness, for as long as you let them.
Thats a fact, and i say this to you in love.........you need to find a way out of your heresy group.

And to continue.
If you are a legalist, then probably noone ever taught you anything about God's Grace, or How it works, or WHY it operates in the life of a Born Again person, the way it does.
If you are a legalist, you have never been taught this verse..... and this verse is the first verse i teach a new Christian to memorize and LIVE With until they are saturated with what it means.
Hebrews 13:9
This is a verse that the devil will hide from a Legalist.
This verse teaches that you are to establish you HEART....with GRACE.
And what this means, is that you are to come to a deep deep understanding of What Grace is, and How Grace Works......because if you don't, you will probably be led astray from theological soundness, and end up on forums ranting about "commandments" and "law", while you try to convince real believers that they can "lose it".
Is that you?
In other words, if you dont do what Hebrews 13:9 tells you to do, in the beginning of your walk with Christ, you will probably end up as a Galatians 1:8
Thats a fact.

So, i want to help people who can be helped, and teach people who can be taught... (who are not so theologically locked into place by the pride of their self righteousness,) to understand Hebrews, and especially a few verses in Chapters 6 & 10 as these are the satanic goldmine for Legalists. Its their bread and butter from hell. Its their end game circular reasoning prison, that they all use when trying to reduce The Blood Of Christ to "working to stay saved" or "holding onto your falth to save saved" or pretending being born again is temporary, = "you can lose your salvation", they preach and preach.

So, believers.... If you can get this revelation im about to give you, then it will help protect you from worrying about losing your salvation, because many will twist these Hebrew verses im going to rightly divide for you, to try to cause you to believe you can lose you salvation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some rules.
There are a few things you need to know, so that you have the theological groundwork necessary within you to even begin to understand this Book, and Chapters 6 and 10.
And by the way, the book of Hebrews is to be avoided until you have studied much and are truly truly grounded in all of Paul's epistles, so that you become grounded in Grace, and the understanding of "you are the righteousness of God IN CHRIST".
I'm not kidding.

But, lets take a look at this, because, this will help you to at least understand what Chapters 6 and 10 are really all about.

Here is your need to know list. :

First, Hebrews are unsaved Jews.
2nd, Apostles in the NT are saved Jews who are able to do signs and wonders. 2 Corinthians 12:12 And this is important to know, as you will learn, in a bit.
3rd. "Signs".......are for the JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

You have to understand that a spiritual gift, comes from HEAVEN. It is a Heavenly gift, and all Apostles could perform these signs (Heavenly GIFTS) that were for JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

Now, all those facts, are necessary for you to understand before you jump into the Book Of Hebrews.
Also to know...very important..... When an Apostle is writing a letter, he always begins the letter with a greeting. And from these greetings, we "rightly divided" their words to understand who the letter is meant for....as this gives us an understanding of it so that we don't misuse the letter theologically or doctrinally.
And Hebrews, is the most misused Letter in the NT by people who say they are Christians.
AS i told you before......Legalists, LIVE in Hebrews, a letter that is NOT addressed to the CHURCH.
Get that.
Very important for you to realize it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok here we go.

The Book of Hebrews, is not addressed to the Church.
The book of Hebrews, is addressed to HEBREWS...these are UNSAVED JEWS.
This is why the letter is not addressed to "the church".
Now be sure you understand that.....as i keep saying... = very important to understand.

Now, let me show you what happens when an Apostle is dealing with religious (HEBREWS) Jews, who are hateful, hate-filled, and antagonistic.
Lets look at how this all plays out during and after this Apostle is preaching the Gospel to them.
And remember...
This Apostle is showing them "heavenly gifts", 2 Corinthians 12:12 as these unsaved HEBREWS have a right to expect "signs", as that is 1 Corinthians 1:22.
So, this Apostle, does everything He can possibly do, and they still wont have Jesus as their Messiah, and it plays out like this in Hebrews Chapter 6 and Chapter 10.
-
-
In Hebrews 6 and 10

10 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened who have tasted the (heavenly gift)... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ""
----------

Now Saint.....Here is how you rightly divided those verses.
And i will use Ch 10 & 6, where unsaved Jews (Hebrews) are being shown the signs of an apostle (tasted the heavenly gift), heard the Gospel, and still refused their Messiah.

There is a JEWISH Apostle, (perhaps Paul) who is preaching the Message of the Cross to Hebrews (jews) who are not saved. They are rejecting the message, rejecting Jesus as Messiah, and this Apostle is warning them of the consequence of Rejecting Christ.
He ESPECIALLY explains in detail their rend result for rejecting Christ, when a "Signs of an Apostle" is happening in front of them.... 2nd Corinthians 12:12 (Tasted the Heavenly GIFT).... This apostle has Gifts of the Spirit and he has just let them see the signs, as "Signs are for the JEWS". 1 Corinthians 1:22... So, here you have a Jewish Apostle, preaching to Lost JEWs (Hebrews) and He is giving them the works....>Not just the Gospel, but "Signs of an Apostle", 2nd Corinthians 12:12... this is THEIR "tasting the Heavenly Gift", this is, them LITERALLY SEEING SIGNS....THE MIRACULOUS.. these Jews are seeing this... THE Spiritual Gifts this Apostle has, which come from HEAVEN...and these jews are STILL DETERMINED TO reject their Messiah, while seeing this JEWISH Apostle's SIGNS., and hearing him preach the Truth to them.

This means, these are hard hearted hate filled religious Jews (Hebrews)....and that is why this Apostle rips into them...with....""" you are trodding underfoot the blood""... He is telling them....You are no different then your Father's (elders) who KNEW Christ was Messiah, and they spit on His Blood that was shed for them.... and they stood there at the foot of the Cross and told Jesus...."Come on down Jesus, you can do it right, .. isn't that right, MR MESSIAH"?

That is what is going on here readers........and This APOSTLE tells them.......If you do this, as you are doing.....you have no way to be SAVED....as you have "sinned willfully" away your SALVATION.......= you have willfully rejected the ONLY ONE Who can save you... You are willfully choosing to be a CHRIST REJECTOR and ""there is no more sacrifice for you SIN", if you do this.........as Hebrews 6 explains to them... and to us.

So, that is Hebrews 10 & 6. ..... That is a JEWISH Apostle, using signs, dealing with unsaved HEBREWS - Religious JEWS who have the same Hatred in their hearts that was in the hearts of the HEBREWS who wanted this......."crucify him......crucify him.......crucify him">... And Pilate told them that Jesus's BLOOD was on THEIR Hands, as he washed his in that bowl, and then turned THEIR MESSIAH over to the whips and The CROSS.
These unsaved Jews in the book of HEBREWS are also "trodding underfoot" AGAIN, the blood of Jesus.....same as before, when their Elders did it, with Jesus hanging on a Cross as proof of their Christ Rejection.
This Apostle, is comparing these HEBREWS Christ rejection, as exactly the same as the Hebrews who originally "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", and stood there glaring their hatred at Him, while Christ hung dying.

blessings,

<dw><

Mathetes66 · May 3, 2019

First, you need to simply teach the Scriptures as you understand them, not pointing fingers at others in a generalized fashion and breaking the forum rules.

Second, what Paul taught CAME FROM CHRIST. Jesus taught Paul by direct revelation & so it was what Jesus taught, expanding on the gospel to not only the Jews but the Gentile nations as well.

And Paul when he went to meet with other apostles, said their message was the same concerning the gospel. They didn't add anything to each other. There is only one gospel message, not 2 or 3, etc. And the other apostles received their 'apostolic teachings' from Christ also.

So one should not 'divide' what Christianity teaches, favoring one man over another. That comes from immaturity. The cross of Christ & crucifying ourselves in following Him takes care of any divisional thinking or pride. When we die to ourselves & allow the life of Christ to be lived out through our mortal bodies, others see Christ in us & the love of the brethren continues.

"In essentials unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things charity."

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

Mathetes66 said:
First, you need to simply teach the Scriptures as you understand them, not pointing fingers at others in a generalized fashion and breaking the forum rules.

Second, what Paul taught CAME FROM CHRIST. Jesus taught Paul by direct revelation & so it was what Jesus taught, expanding on the gospel to not only the Jews but the Gentile nations as well.

And Paul when he went to meet with other apostles, said their message was the same concerning the gospel. They didn't add anything to each other. There is only one gospel message, not 2 or 3, etc. And the other apostles received their 'apostolic teachings' from Christ also.

So one should not 'divide' what Christianity teaches, favoring one man over another. That comes from immaturity. The cross of Christ & crucifying ourselves in following Him takes care of any divisional thinking or pride. When we die to ourselves & allow the life of Christ to be lived out through our mortal bodies, others see Christ in us & the love of the brethren continues.

"In essentials unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things charity."

A few things you said were not accurate, so, i'll reply to those, and the rest that you said is your opinion, and i wont reply to any of that.

1.), I have broken no "forum rules", as you claim. I have pointed no finger in my Thread, = named a person, in it. Not one.
All i did was revisit the idea of "what a legalist is, and what a legalist believes".
But i would never post a Thread pointing a finger at anyone, as you falsely charge, but i will certainly, and within the "rights of the forum rules", direct my POV in opposition to heresy as its defined by Galatians 1:8, in the form of Legalism that you find on this Forum.

2.) You state there is only One Gospel. There has always only been one......And you are both wrong, but also right, tho you dont understand what you are saying.

Let me explain.
The Gospel, doctrinally, is the idea of the Blood Atonement becoming the imputed "righteousness of Christ" unto a believer. And this is achieved based on "Justification by Faith".
So, preaching the Gospel, can't be understood as how to, unless you know this..
"believe on the Lord and you shall be saved".

So, you say the gospel has always been this, but in fact, thats not true.
This is why Jesus took Paul, apart, and taught Him the Gospel.
This is why, Peter, in Acts 9, then 10, ....had to be shown from Heaven, in a vision, that Gentiles could be saved.
This is why....>"believe and be baptized"< that is in Act 2:38, is NOT the same MESSAGE AS...>"believe on the Lord and thou shall be saved".
Peter was preaching what JOHN the Baptist was preaching, as that is all Peter knew at the time of Act 2:38.
Paul said...>"Christ send me not to water baptize".
Did you ever notice this?

What we know NOW< is "Grace" and so forth, but, early on, Peter didnt know anything about it, and James had to be taught, as well as the rest.
This all came from the teaching of Paul.
This is why in 2nd Peter, ...PETER< said that Paul's letters are SCRIPTURE......that is to say, equal to the TORAH........In other words, Peter is evaluating Paul's letters, as BIBLE.....as equal to the Bible.

So, no, it was not all the same, as you are claiming, but it fact, it was years and years before even Peter knew what Paul was preaching.

eleos1954 · May 3, 2019

Mathetes66 said:
First, you need to simply teach the Scriptures as you understand them, not pointing fingers at others in a generalized fashion and breaking the forum rules.

Second, what Paul taught CAME FROM CHRIST. Jesus taught Paul by direct revelation & so it was what Jesus taught, expanding on the gospel to not only the Jews but the Gentile nations as well.

And Paul when he went to meet with other apostles, said their message was the same concerning the gospel. They didn't add anything to each other. There is only one gospel message, not 2 or 3, etc. And the other apostles received their 'apostolic teachings' from Christ also.

So one should not 'divide' what Christianity teaches, favoring one man over another. That comes from immaturity. The cross of Christ & crucifying ourselves in following Him takes care of any divisional thinking or pride. When we die to ourselves & allow the life of Christ to be lived out through our mortal bodies, others see Christ in us & the love of the brethren continues.

"In essentials unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things charity."

Yes ... and would like to add

Galatians 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

Romans 3:22
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction ...

Thank you Jesus!

God Bless all.

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

eleos1954 said:
Yes ... and would like to add

Galatians 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Thank you Jesus!

God Bless all.

That is very true, what you posted.
And isn't it interesting that Peter the Apostle did not know what you just posted, until about 10 yrs after Jesus was back in Heaven?
He had no idea about "In Christ", and even believed and taught, until Acts 10, that only JEWS could be saved.

topher694 · May 3, 2019

DeepWater said:
As ive posted many times on this Forum, ....the fact that Legalists (all live in the wrong parts of Hebrews, (Ch 6 & 10) ......Matthew (before the Cross),...... James, and the Old Testament.
They are really quite unacquainted with Paul.
If they were a student of Paul, who said, "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".... it would be because they have been taught correct "Pauline Theology".
If they knew anything about Paul, they would know that Jesus took Paul aside, and no other Apostle, and taught him "justification by faith", and 99% of the doctrine of the Church.
So, when you are a student of the NT, you are a student of Paul, and from Paul, you learn "sound doctrine".

If you have not been taught what i just showed you, then you are lost in the theological weeds, and that is why you have no idea about Grace, and can't even talk about it.
You can't even discuss the Blood Atonement, or "justification by Faith".
You will have no idea that Jesus is not only your Righteousness, but He is your redemption, and your sanctification and your justification, BEFORE GOD. .. In the EYES of God.
If you are a legalist, all of this basic "Christianity 101" is Chinese to you.
Its a language you dont speak or comprehend, and you will not be speaking it any time soon, unless you find someone like me to teach you, or you get away from whatever cult, church, or spiritually corrupted people who have led you into the dark..... and find the LIGHT.
As, they will be happy to keep you right there with them in their darkness, for as long as you let them.
Thats a fact, and i say this to you in love.........you need to find a way out of your heresy group.

And to continue.
If you are a legalist, then probably noone ever taught you anything about God's Grace, or How it works, or WHY it operates in the life of a Born Again person, the way it does.
If you are a legalist, you have never been taught this verse..... and this verse is the first verse i teach a new Christian to memorize and LIVE With until they are saturated with what it means.
Hebrews 13:9
This is a verse that the devil will hide from a Legalist.
This verse teaches that you are to establish you HEART....with GRACE.
And what this means, is that you are to come to a deep deep understanding of What Grace is, and How Grace Works......because if you don't, you will probably be led astray from theological soundness, and end up on forums ranting about "commandments" and "law", while you try to convince real believers that they can "lose it".
Is that you?
In other words, if you dont do what Hebrews 13:9 tells you to do, in the beginning of your walk with Christ, you will probably end up as a Galatians 1:8
Thats a fact.

So, i want to help people who can be helped, and teach people who can be taught... (who are not so theologically locked into place by the pride of their self righteousness,) to understand Hebrews, and especially a few verses in Chapters 6 & 10 as these are the satanic goldmine for Legalists. Its their bread and butter from hell. Its their end game circular reasoning prison, that they all use when trying to reduce The Blood Of Christ to "working to stay saved" or "holding onto your falth to save saved" or pretending being born again is temporary, = "you can lose your salvation", they preach and preach.

So, believers.... If you can get this revelation im about to give you, then it will help protect you from worrying about losing your salvation, because many will twist these Hebrew verses im going to rightly divide for you, to try to cause you to believe you can lose you salvation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some rules.
There are a few things you need to know, so that you have the theological groundwork necessary within you to even begin to understand this Book, and Chapters 6 and 10.
And by the way, the book of Hebrews is to be avoided until you have studied much and are truly truly grounded in all of Paul's epistles, so that you become grounded in Grace, and the understanding of "you are the righteousness of God IN CHRIST".
I'm not kidding.

But, lets take a look at this, because, this will help you to at least understand what Chapters 6 and 10 are really all about.

Here is your need to know list. :

First, Hebrews are unsaved Jews.
2nd, Apostles in the NT are saved Jews who are able to do signs and wonders. 2 Corinthians 12:12 And this is important to know, as you will learn, in a bit.
3rd. "Signs".......are for the JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

You have to understand that a spiritual gift, comes from HEAVEN. It is a Heavenly gift, and all Apostles could perform these signs (Heavenly GIFTS) that were for JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

Now, all those facts, are necessary for you to understand before you jump into the Book Of Hebrews.
Also to know...very important..... When an Apostle is writing a letter, he always begins the letter with a greeting. And from these greetings, we "rightly divided" their words to understand who the letter is meant for....as this gives us an understanding of it so that we don't misuse the letter theologically or doctrinally.
And Hebrews, is the most misused Letter in the NT by people who say they are Christians.
AS i told you before......Legalists, LIVE in Hebrews, a letter that is NOT addressed to the CHURCH.
Get that.
Very important for you to realize it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok here we go.

The Book of Hebrews, is not addressed to the Church.
The book of Hebrews, is addressed to HEBREWS...these are UNSAVED JEWS.
This is why the letter is not addressed to "the church".
Now be sure you understand that.....as i keep saying... = very important to understand.

Now, let me show you what happens when an Apostle is dealing with religious (HEBREWS) Jews, who are hateful, hate-filled, and antagonistic.
Lets look at how this all plays out during and after this Apostle is preaching the Gospel to them.
And remember...
This Apostle is showing them "heavenly gifts", 2 Corinthians 12:12 as these unsaved HEBREWS have a right to expect "signs", as that is 1 Corinthians 1:22.
So, this Apostle, does everything He can possibly do, and they still wont have Jesus as their Messiah, and it plays out like this in Hebrews Chapter 6 and Chapter 10.
-
-
In Hebrews 6 and 10

10 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened who have tasted the (heavenly gift)... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ""
----------

Now Saint.....Here is how you rightly divided those verses.
And i will use Ch 10 & 6, where unsaved Jews (Hebrews) are being shown the signs of an apostle (tasted the heavenly gift), heard the Gospel, and still refused their Messiah.

There is a JEWISH Apostle, (perhaps Paul) who is preaching the Message of the Cross to Hebrews (jews) who are not saved. They are rejecting the message, rejecting Jesus as Messiah, and this Apostle is warning them of the consequence of Rejecting Christ.
He ESPECIALLY explains in detail their rend result for rejecting Christ, when a "Signs of an Apostle" is happening in front of them.... 2nd Corinthians 12:12 (Tasted the Heavenly GIFT).... This apostle has Gifts of the Spirit and he has just let them see the signs, as "Signs are for the JEWS". 1 Corinthians 1:22... So, here you have a Jewish Apostle, preaching to Lost JEWs (Hebrews) and He is giving them the works....>Not just the Gospel, but "Signs of an Apostle", 2nd Corinthians 12:12... this is THEIR "tasting the Heavenly Gift", this is, them LITERALLY SEEING SIGNS....THE MIRACULOUS.. these Jews are seeing this... THE Spiritual Gifts this Apostle has, which come from HEAVEN...and these jews are STILL DETERMINED TO reject their Messiah, while seeing this JEWISH Apostle's SIGNS., and hearing him preach the Truth to them.

This means, these are hard hearted hate filled religious Jews (Hebrews)....and that is why this Apostle rips into them...with....""" you are trodding underfoot the blood""... He is telling them....You are no different then your Father's (elders) who KNEW Christ was Messiah, and they spit on His Blood that was shed for them.... and they stood there at the foot of the Cross and told Jesus...."Come on down Jesus, you can do it right, .. isn't that right, MR MESSIAH"?

That is what is going on here readers........and This APOSTLE tells them.......If you do this, as you are doing.....you have no way to be SAVED....as you have "sinned willfully" away your SALVATION.......= you have willfully rejected the ONLY ONE Who can save you... You are willfully choosing to be a CHRIST REJECTOR and ""there is no more sacrifice for you SIN", if you do this.........as Hebrews 6 explains to them... and to us.

So, that is Hebrews 10 & 6. ..... That is a JEWISH Apostle, using signs, dealing with unsaved HEBREWS - Religious JEWS who have the same Hatred in their hearts that was in the hearts of the HEBREWS who wanted this......."crucify him......crucify him.......crucify him">... And Pilate told them that Jesus's BLOOD was on THEIR Hands, as he washed his in that bowl, and then turned THEIR MESSIAH over to the whips and The CROSS.
These unsaved Jews in the book of HEBREWS are also "trodding underfoot" AGAIN, the blood of Jesus.....same as before, when their Elders did it, with Jesus hanging on a Cross as proof of their Christ Rejection.
This Apostle, is comparing these HEBREWS Christ rejection, as exactly the same as the Hebrews who originally "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", and stood there glaring their hatred at Him, while Christ hung dying.

blessings,

<dw><

What is your goal with all of these posts?

eleos1954 · May 3, 2019

DeepWater said:
That is very true, what you posted.
And isn't it interesting that Peter the Apostle did not know what you just posted, until about 10 yrs after Jesus was back in Heaven?
He had no idea about "In Christ", and even believed and taught, until Acts 10, that only JEWS could be saved.

Grace is nothing new and it hasn't been for just the Jews.

2 Timothy 1:9 sheds some valuable light on this topic, “He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us (mankind) in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.”

They also understood that Christ is God and that God never changes.

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

"that only JEWS could be saved" - what about all those before the jewish nation was formed?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was to be preached to the Jews first and then to the gentiles because prophesy (as written in the OT) be fulfilled. All prophesy in the Word of God must be fulfilled.

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The plan of salvation through Christ for all mankind was in place before creation.

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

topher694 said:
What is your goal with all of these posts?

I appreciate the question.
What am i doing?
The will of God.
For me, an Evangelist, I'm noticing im in a world that is ending and im watching it go up in flames, because GOD is bringing it all to a close, topher694.
Jesus is coming soon.
The Trump of God is about to sound, and we have a TRUMP in the White House, who just moved the Jewish Capital to where 30 yrs of Presidents, who have this same option every year, didn't do it.
SIGNS are everywhere, if you know how to LOOK.
God is revealing, while believers are walking around in public, or driving, while texting.
Heaven is real, and hell is not a myth, topher694

Time is speeding up, notice???? yet, Christians, the majority are asleep in the Light.
They are worried about the last episode of GOT, and yet can't explain what Jesus means when He said......"it is FINISHED".
So, God wants me to not only try to reach the lost with the Cross, but, in places like this,
where Forums have become Attack Dogs, that bite Truth, and Hate Grace, i'm just doing what i should.
Its not that im doing anything special, but rather its that so many are doing nothing at all...so i stick out.
I'm just me.....nothing special, but the Light i bring is very special.
Jesus is the Light.
Thats the reality.

-----------------------------------------------

Gay Marriage.
Transgender Rights.
Social Justice concerns.
Is Trump a russian agent.?
Can Tiger Woods win another Major.?
Is Homosexuality a mental-moral disease or Did God cause them to be "born this way". ??

on and on and on and on........

Ok, all interesting topics, but, who just led someone to Christ and is teaching them Hebrews 13:9.

So, im showing ALL that contrast as a way of giving perspective, and not as a condemnation.

Its just the fact that time is short, many are lost, and we are the Light.
We need to focus.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As you pointed out....Ive written a lot of Thread's directed at Legalism, because its the #1 infection, spiritually speaking, within Christianity, worldwide.
But, its nothing new, Topher694.
You've heard this phrases ...>"cheap grace"..."hyper grace".
Well, this is Legalism-Speak, as it protests the reality of how Grace functions. OSAS
Its nothing new, as there is nothing new under the sun.
See...In Paul's day, he was accused of the same thing that anyone who preaches the "Grace of God", will hear from Legalists.
IN his day, the Legalist said it like this.....> Paul wrote....."im being accused of preaching that we should sin, so grace shall more abound".
That is Paul, responding to the same people who oppose me, and for the same reason,...... = they oppose Grace, worldwide.
Really.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And i'll post this again, as there are a lot of people tuned in.....and i thank God for that.
Truly.

To the Legalist. or to determine if you are one, as most Legalists would not recognize themselves unless they are SHOWN.
This is why the letter to the GALATIANS was written.......same as why im HERE on this Forum, as my main purpose, but, not only that, as i like to hang out with Believers and respond to all sorts of Posts and Threads.

But here is the Question(s).

Do you believe that what saved you keeps you saved?
Do you believe that, Jesus saved you, and He will keep you saved, and you have nothing to do, to make certain that He does?

If your reaction in your own heart is...."yes, i believe that Jesus save me, BUT, are you saying i dont have to""""""".

So, if that is you..........then i ask you..... Why are you not trusting in Christ ALONE to KEEP YOU SAVED. ???

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

eleos1954 said:
Grace is nothing new and it hasn't been for just the Jews.

The plan of salvation through Christ for all mankind was in place before creation.

God knew we would be having this discussing, before you were born, or before Jesus Hung on the Cross for the sin of the World.
God knows what you are thinking, reader, while you are reading what im writing.

But as i pointed out...........
Its like this.
The bible is a book of progressive revelation.
"God being revealed according to how He deals with MAN".
The NT, is even moreso, its a book of progressive revelation, all laid out.
And so, the Apostles, all learned what they learned about Salvation, what this means, over time, after Christ went back to Heaven.
They didn't all know the same thing, at the same time.
There was a point in time when at least some of the Apostles were afraid of Paul....as they were not certain he was REAL., as this was a man that was killing Christians, and now he is one of US?.....WHAT?
Just like that...
Thats a fact.
So, they all had a lot to learn, yet, Paul, got it all from Jesus, in a short time.
The others, it took them a lot longer to get up to speed, regarding Doctrine and Salvation.

Mathetes66 · May 3, 2019

Just a few comments:

You apparently don't read what I actually said, even in the first line.

"First, you need to simply teach the Scriptures as you understand them, not pointing fingers at others in a generalized fashion and breaking the forum rules."

I will outline the pertinent Forum rules & guidelines:

Forum Statement of Purpose:

"Always remember that you are first and foremost brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of your theological differences and viewpoints."

"Do not identify a 'group of members or a theological viewpoint' with a derogatory or inflammatory label.

Examples of inflammatory words/phrases (including but NOT limited to):

"Idolaters, false/different/other gospel, false prophet, false doctrine, heretics, blasphemers, evil, sheep in wolves clothing, different God, antichrists, Antichrist, cannibalism/cannibal (concerning Eucharist), Judaizer. (another term often used for a legalist or one who puts others 'under the law.')

I did not say you pointed to a specific member by name in your first post (but do in your second), but 'at others in a generalized fashion.' You picked a group of members under the generalized term, 'the legalists.'

However, you didn't limit yourself to just the general group you call legalists. You then went further and applied it to people in general here on CF:

"So, I want to help people who can be helped & teach people who can be taught... (who are not so theologically locked into place by the pride of their self righteousness..."

Inflammatory statements are used calling the group of legalists not saved because you then address 'BELIEVERS LATER in your post CONTRASTING them with the 'legalists.' Another inflammatory statement: 'these are the satanic goldmine for Legalists.'

Then in your second post, you use inflammatory statements toward me, an individual member, showing you do break the forum rules once again.

"But i would never post a Thread pointing a finger at anyone, as you falsely charge..."

Yet this is what you said to me:

"And you are both wrong, but also right, tho 'YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.' "

It is one thing to disagree with what I say, it is another issue to use an ad hominem to say that I don't understand what I am saying.

But rather than belabor the point or even go into Peter bringing the gospel to the Gentiles FIRST before Paul's ministry or Saul going back home to Tarsus after leaving Damascus for TWELVE YEARS, I will simply report this thread to administrators & let them decide what to do with it. Have a nice day!

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

Mathetes66 said:
Just a few comments:

You apparently don't read what I actually said, even in the first line.

I will outline the pertinent Forum rules & guidelines:

Forum Statement of Purpose:

"Always remember that you are first and foremost brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of your theological differences and viewpoints."

"Do not identify a 'group of members or a theological viewpoint' with a derogatory or inflammatory label.

But rather than belabor the point or even go into Peter bringing the gospel to the Gentiles FIRST before Paul's ministry or Saul going back home to Tarsus after leaving Damascus for TWELVE YEARS, I will simply report this thread to administrators & let them decide what to do with it. Have a nice day!

"Legalism" is a concept, that defines a Theology.
For me to use this term, is simply to use the definition correctly.
I didn't create the term, and the term is used on this forum a lot, and long before i got here.
So, where were you then?
You speak as if i invented the term..."Legalism", and first posted it here.
Sorry, not quite.

Also, many posters here, accuse me of OSAS, and i dont feel the need to become upset about this, at all.

And if you feel personally violated because you are not able to prove your concept of "History" as regarding the NT, or if you feel the same because ive used the word "Legalist", then, i accept that you do.
If you feel the need to try to get a Thread closed because you can't deal with the topic, or me, then i guess you will try.
Sometimes tho, it better in life to face opposition, is what i believe.
Your milage may vary, and i will give you a heads up..
When you are trying to prove your case, and can't, and then you run to a mod to stop a Thread, then other members here.....see this.
It speaks volumes.

topher694 · May 3, 2019

DeepWater said:
I appreciate the question.
What am i doing?
The will of God.
For me, as an Evangelist - Teacher - Musician..... im in a world that is ending, and im watching it go up in flames, because GOD is bringing it all to a close, topher694.
Jesus is coming soon.
The Trump of God is about to sound, and we have a TRUMP in the White House, who just moved the Jewish Capital to where 30 yrs of Presidents, who have this same option every year, didn't do it.
SIGNS are everywhere, if you know how to LOOK.
God is revealing, while believers are walking around in public, or driving, while texting.
Heaven is real, and hell is not a myth, topher694

Time is speeding up, notice???? yet, Christians, the majority are asleep in the Light.
They are worried about the last episode of GOT, and yet can't explain what Jesus means when He said......"it is FINISHED".
So, God wants me to not only try to reach the lost with the Cross, but, in places like this,
where Forums have become Attack Dogs, that bite Truth, and Hate Grace, i'm just doing what i should.
Its not that im doing anything special, but rather its that so many are doing nothing at all...so i stick out.
I'm just me.....nothing special, but the Light i bring is very special.
Jesus is the Light.
Thats the reality.

-----------------------------------------------

Gay Marriage.
Transgender Rights.
Social Justice concerns.
Is Trump a russian agent.?
Can Tiger Woods win another Major.?
Is Homosexuality a mental-moral disease or Did God cause them to be "born this way". ??

on and on and on and on........

Ok, all interesting topics, but, who just led someone to Christ and is teaching them Hebrews 13:9.

So, im showing ALL that contrast as a way of giving perspective, and not as a condemnation.

Its just the fact that time is short, many are lost, and we are the Light.
We need to focus.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As you pointed out....Ive written a lot of Thread's directed at Legalism, because its the #1 infection, spiritually speaking, within Christianity, worldwide.
But, its nothing new, Topher694.
You've heard this phrases ...>"cheap grace"..."hyper grace".
Well, this is Legalism-Speak, as it protests the reality of how Grace functions. OSAS
Its nothing new, as there is nothing new under the sun.
See...In Paul's day, he was accused of the same thing that anyone who preaches the "Grace of God", will hear from Legalists.
IN his day, the Legalist said it like this.....> Paul wrote....."im being accused of preaching that we should sin, so grace shall more abound".
That is Paul, responding to the same people who oppose me, and for the same reason,...... = they oppose Grace, worldwide.
Really.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And i'll post this again, as there are a lot of people tuned in.....and i thank God for that.
Truly.

To the Legalist. or to determine if you are one, as most Legalists would not recognize themselves unless they are SHOWN.
This is why the letter to the GALATIANS was written.......same as why im HERE on this Forum, as my main purpose, but, not only that, as i like to hang out with Believers and respond to all sorts of Posts and Threads.

But here is the Question(s).

Do you believe that what saved you keeps you saved?
Do you believe that, Jesus saved you, and He will keep you saved, and you have nothing to do, to make certain that He does?

If your reaction in your own heart is...."yes, i believe that Jesus save me, BUT, are you saying i dont have to""""""".

So, if that is you..........then i ask you..... Why are you not trusting in Christ ALONE to KEEP YOU SAVED. ???

All I see here is a bunch of theological theory. The focus is on what everyone else is doing wrong, and how you are right. The point should be helping people in a real tangible way and I don't see that here. Oh, theological discussions are fine, but they are not as impactful as those engaging in them seem to think they are. And posting the same thing over and over furthers nothing. Additionally, there is a prideful undertone here that anyone who disagrees is just blind and/or uneducated in scripture. That helps no one either.

I deal with regular folks everyday, with real issues. Hurt, fear, frustration, betrayal, disappointment. You know how often OSAS comes up? Never. If they are not saved, we fix that. If they are not living for the Lord, ie doing good works, we equip, edify, train and encourage them to do better. NOT because anyone is worried about losing their salvation, but because it is the right thing to do, and it helps them find purpose. We show others Jesus is the way by demonstrating it, not endlessly arguing over it.

There are some folks in the bible whose main purpose was to be right and show others how they were wrong. They had the appearance of godliness, but they weren't followers of Jesus, and they didn't demonstrate the heart of God.

So the real question is, who are you helping?

Grip Docility · May 3, 2019

DeepWater said:
As ive posted many times on this Forum, ....the fact that Legalists (all live in the wrong parts of Hebrews, (Ch 6 & 10) ......Matthew (before the Cross),...... James, and the Old Testament.
They are really quite unacquainted with Paul.
If they were a student of Paul, who said, "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".... it would be because they have been taught correct "Pauline Theology".
If they knew anything about Paul, they would know that Jesus took Paul aside, and no other Apostle, and taught him "justification by faith", and 99% of the doctrine of the Church.
So, when you are a student of the NT, you are a student of Paul, and from Paul, you learn "sound doctrine".

If you have not been taught what i just showed you, then you are lost in the theological weeds, and that is why you have no idea about Grace, and can't even talk about it.
You can't even discuss the Blood Atonement, or "justification by Faith".
You will have no idea that Jesus is not only your Righteousness, but He is your redemption, and your sanctification and your justification, BEFORE GOD. .. In the EYES of God.
If you are a legalist, all of this basic "Christianity 101" is Chinese to you.
Its a language you dont speak or comprehend, and you will not be speaking it any time soon, unless you find someone like me to teach you, or you get away from whatever cult, church, or spiritually corrupted people who have led you into the dark..... and find the LIGHT.
As, they will be happy to keep you right there with them in their darkness, for as long as you let them.
Thats a fact, and i say this to you in love.........you need to find a way out of your heresy group.

And to continue.
If you are a legalist, then probably noone ever taught you anything about God's Grace, or How it works, or WHY it operates in the life of a Born Again person, the way it does.
If you are a legalist, you have never been taught this verse..... and this verse is the first verse i teach a new Christian to memorize and LIVE With until they are saturated with what it means.
Hebrews 13:9
This is a verse that the devil will hide from a Legalist.
This verse teaches that you are to establish you HEART....with GRACE.
And what this means, is that you are to come to a deep deep understanding of What Grace is, and How Grace Works......because if you don't, you will probably be led astray from theological soundness, and end up on forums ranting about "commandments" and "law", while you try to convince real believers that they can "lose it".
Is that you?
In other words, if you dont do what Hebrews 13:9 tells you to do, in the beginning of your walk with Christ, you will probably end up as a Galatians 1:8
Thats a fact.

So, i want to help people who can be helped, and teach people who can be taught... (who are not so theologically locked into place by the pride of their self righteousness,) to understand Hebrews, and especially a few verses in Chapters 6 & 10 as these are the satanic goldmine for Legalists. Its their bread and butter from hell. Its their end game circular reasoning prison, that they all use when trying to reduce The Blood Of Christ to "working to stay saved" or "holding onto your falth to save saved" or pretending being born again is temporary, = "you can lose your salvation", they preach and preach.

So, believers.... If you can get this revelation im about to give you, then it will help protect you from worrying about losing your salvation, because many will twist these Hebrew verses im going to rightly divide for you, to try to cause you to believe you can lose you salvation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some rules.
There are a few things you need to know, so that you have the theological groundwork necessary within you to even begin to understand this Book, and Chapters 6 and 10.
And by the way, the book of Hebrews is to be avoided until you have studied much and are truly truly grounded in all of Paul's epistles, so that you become grounded in Grace, and the understanding of "you are the righteousness of God IN CHRIST".
I'm not kidding.

But, lets take a look at this, because, this will help you to at least understand what Chapters 6 and 10 are really all about.

Here is your need to know list. :

First, Hebrews are unsaved Jews.
2nd, Apostles in the NT are saved Jews who are able to do signs and wonders. 2 Corinthians 12:12 And this is important to know, as you will learn, in a bit.
3rd. "Signs".......are for the JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

You have to understand that a spiritual gift, comes from HEAVEN. It is a Heavenly gift, and all Apostles could perform these signs (Heavenly GIFTS) that were for JEWS. 1 Corinthians 1:22

Now, all those facts, are necessary for you to understand before you jump into the Book Of Hebrews.
Also to know...very important..... When an Apostle is writing a letter, he always begins the letter with a greeting. And from these greetings, we "rightly divided" their words to understand who the letter is meant for....as this gives us an understanding of it so that we don't misuse the letter theologically or doctrinally.
And Hebrews, is the most misused Letter in the NT by people who say they are Christians.
AS i told you before......Legalists, LIVE in Hebrews, a letter that is NOT addressed to the CHURCH.
Get that.
Very important for you to realize it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok here we go.

The Book of Hebrews, is not addressed to the Church.
The book of Hebrews, is addressed to HEBREWS...these are UNSAVED JEWS.
This is why the letter is not addressed to "the church".
Now be sure you understand that.....as i keep saying... = very important to understand.

Now, let me show you what happens when an Apostle is dealing with religious (HEBREWS) Jews, who are hateful, hate-filled, and antagonistic.
Lets look at how this all plays out during and after this Apostle is preaching the Gospel to them.
And remember...
This Apostle is showing them "heavenly gifts", 2 Corinthians 12:12 as these unsaved HEBREWS have a right to expect "signs", as that is 1 Corinthians 1:22.
So, this Apostle, does everything He can possibly do, and they still wont have Jesus as their Messiah, and it plays out like this in Hebrews Chapter 6 and Chapter 10.
-
-
In Hebrews 6 and 10

10 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened who have tasted the (heavenly gift)... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ""
----------

Now Saint.....Here is how you rightly divided those verses.
And i will use Ch 10 & 6, where unsaved Jews (Hebrews) are being shown the signs of an apostle (tasted the heavenly gift), heard the Gospel, and still refused their Messiah.

There is a JEWISH Apostle, (perhaps Paul) who is preaching the Message of the Cross to Hebrews (jews) who are not saved. They are rejecting the message, rejecting Jesus as Messiah, and this Apostle is warning them of the consequence of Rejecting Christ.
He ESPECIALLY explains in detail their rend result for rejecting Christ, when a "Signs of an Apostle" is happening in front of them.... 2nd Corinthians 12:12 (Tasted the Heavenly GIFT).... This apostle has Gifts of the Spirit and he has just let them see the signs, as "Signs are for the JEWS". 1 Corinthians 1:22... So, here you have a Jewish Apostle, preaching to Lost JEWs (Hebrews) and He is giving them the works....>Not just the Gospel, but "Signs of an Apostle", 2nd Corinthians 12:12... this is THEIR "tasting the Heavenly Gift", this is, them LITERALLY SEEING SIGNS....THE MIRACULOUS.. these Jews are seeing this... THE Spiritual Gifts this Apostle has, which come from HEAVEN...and these jews are STILL DETERMINED TO reject their Messiah, while seeing this JEWISH Apostle's SIGNS., and hearing him preach the Truth to them.

This means, these are hard hearted hate filled religious Jews (Hebrews)....and that is why this Apostle rips into them...with....""" you are trodding underfoot the blood""... He is telling them....You are no different then your Father's (elders) who KNEW Christ was Messiah, and they spit on His Blood that was shed for them.... and they stood there at the foot of the Cross and told Jesus...."Come on down Jesus, you can do it right, .. isn't that right, MR MESSIAH"?

That is what is going on here readers........and This APOSTLE tells them.......If you do this, as you are doing.....you have no way to be SAVED....as you have "sinned willfully" away your SALVATION.......= you have willfully rejected the ONLY ONE Who can save you... You are willfully choosing to be a CHRIST REJECTOR and ""there is no more sacrifice for you SIN", if you do this.........as Hebrews 6 explains to them... and to us.

So, that is Hebrews 10 & 6. ..... That is a JEWISH Apostle, using signs, dealing with unsaved HEBREWS - Religious JEWS who have the same Hatred in their hearts that was in the hearts of the HEBREWS who wanted this......."crucify him......crucify him.......crucify him">... And Pilate told them that Jesus's BLOOD was on THEIR Hands, as he washed his in that bowl, and then turned THEIR MESSIAH over to the whips and The CROSS.
These unsaved Jews in the book of HEBREWS are also "trodding underfoot" AGAIN, the blood of Jesus.....same as before, when their Elders did it, with Jesus hanging on a Cross as proof of their Christ Rejection.
This Apostle, is comparing these HEBREWS Christ rejection, as exactly the same as the Hebrews who originally "trod underfoot the blood of Jesus", and stood there glaring their hatred at Him, while Christ hung dying.

blessings,

<dw><

You have my encouragement, DW.

Your target audience is clear and when a true legalist reads your words, while weeping over telling God they promise they won’t fail again, but this time they really mean it, as they are about to fail again, they will receive the cool waters you are serving up.

All blessings in Him to you.

Context humor... thrown your way... (So, The Book is called Hebrews, -airquotes with fingers- and it starts out “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through prophets, at many times and in various ways,”) ... and you’re suggesting it was written to unsaved Jews?

Preposterous! Face of disgust! Fuming mad! How dare you?!?

Just because it’s called “Hebrews”, and talks about biological ancestors to context of Jews, while going to great lengths to address the Gospel from a salvational standpoint, only Jews would have understood... doesn’t mean that... well...

Pshhhhhhhh! Next I suppose you’ll say Jesus said this!!! (Matthew 15:24 and this Matthew 10:5). How dare you use proper biblical context! -making disgusted shaming sounds-

Okay, I give up. It was to the Hebrews.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

DeepWater · May 3, 2019

Grip Docility said:
You have my encouragement, DW.

Your target audience is clear and when a true legalist reads your words, while weeping over telling God they promise they won’t fail again, but this time they really mean it, as they are about to fail again, they will receive the cool waters you are serving up.All blessings in Him to you.
Context humor... thrown your way... (So, The Book is called Hebrews, -airquotes with fingers- and it starts out “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through prophets, at many times and in various ways,”) ... and you’re suggesting it was written to unsaved Jews?
Preposterous! Face of disgust! Fuming mad! How dare you?!?
Just because it’s called “Hebrews”, and talks about biological ancestors to context of Jews, while going to great lengths to address the Gospel from a salvational standpoint, only Jews would have understood... doesn’t mean that... well...
Pshhhhhhhh! Next I suppose you’ll say Jesus said this!!! (Matthew 15:24 and this Matthew 10:5). How dare you use proper biblical context! -making disgusted shaming sounds-
Okay, I give up. It was to the Hebrews.
All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

You know, its interesting that "Koine Greek", as in greek manuscripts, is "5th grade english", level, according to the "professionals" that grade this type stuff.
So, (early) translators understood this, also, and created a certain bible with the idea of "5th grade" level english, but true to the Receptus, text.

Where the NT becomes a problem for many, is not because of the language, or the doctrine, but its because it won't teach self righteousness., so, they twist it into a theological pretzel until it suits them.
Welcome......2500+ denominations.

There are over 200 "new" bibles that have been also so designed.... they are sort of greek text paraphrased slightly altered, books that say "holy bible" on them somewhere, and they make someone money when you buy them.
There use to be "Word Publishers" that created a "Pslams, Proverbs, NT"< leather cover, was the best bible i ever used....felt good in your hands........I had all my years of notes in a recently purchased one, back in 2013, and ended up leaving it on a Jet, as i was leaving the Jet going into the Atlanta Hub.
Years of study notes, and i hope someone found it

and is using it.

Here is a nugget for the readers...
BEfore you buy another new version, and before you read another verse in yours, go and find out who created it........what denomination created your bible.......what is their Theology, as you will then find out something about why your bible has a certain (slanted) point of view about "gifts of the Spirit", or Grace.
......Wisdom is..... before you believe what you are being taught, find out what they believe about GRACE, The Blood of Jesus, The finished work of the Cross, and Jesus is God.......stuff like that.
This includes the creators of all bibles, and the teachers of all messages.
Including me.
Check me out.
The thing about me is...... i do one thing really well, using a NT.
I always Lift up the Blood of Jesus, and Give all the Credit to Christ for what HE DID.
EVerything i ever write here, is 98% a praise to the Blood and the Cross of Jesus.
Every Thread, is one POV....>"GIVE THE BLOOD OF JESUS ALL THE CREDIT".
SO, that is my proof text.
That is my theology.
That is my belief system.
I take NO CREDIT,.... I give it all to the ONE who DID IT ALL, EARNED IT ALL, and BLED out to prove the TRUTH. John 14:6
So, when a Legalist is fighting me about laws and "license to sin" and 10 commandments, and all this... stuff.
All i ever show them is....."Jesus saved you and KEEPS YOU SAVED", as that is all im really writing-teaching.
I am LIFTING UP THE LORD, AND LIFTING UP THE CROSS, AND LIFTING UP THE BLOOD.
AND LEGALISTS, are not., and that is why we clash and clash and will continue to., as it should be.

Sometimes when im teaching i'l be asked....."so then, what bible do you recommend".
Thats easy..
Any bible that accepts that God is manifested in the Flesh, and teaches this. in 1 Timothy 3:16.
And then i add...."if your bible says "HE, was manifested", then who is that?.... and why would your bible not want you to know that it is GOD who is manifested. ???
= they took GOD out of the VERSE, which is taking GOD out of the New Testament.
Who would want that word out? Who would want GOD out of the NT?
The Devil.
And then someone will say....well, you see, in Lexicon abc123, which has the dead sea scroll reading in it,..... its not found..... that term.
And then i say...well, im trained in manuscript evidence, so......"next".

Go with the bible that keeps God in it.
Works every time.

And here is something just for you, Grip Docility.... that no book, preacher, saint, or theologian has ever shown you., i'm pretty sure..
But i'll show you, as you are a believer who likes to study the word, and the others here who are reading me, and like to study to show yourself approved to God, check this out.

You noticed i posted this Thread you are on?
And i explained that an Apostle, (could be paul) lets say it is.... is having the usual riot in his face, when he tries to tell religious (legalist) Jews, about their Messiah. In Hebrews Ch 6 & 10.
Nothing new.
So, He is human, and he has feelings, its frustrating , can be, when you are glowing THE Light and nobody will have it.
So, Paul is glowing, he is blistering them with SIGNS, 2 Corinthians 12:12 He is doing everything he can to get his people to HEAR THE TRUTH and they are all texting each other and talking about the 10 commandments, and why they want to work their way into heaven.
So, He launches into them with some fierce facts..."you are sinning willfully....you are trodding on the blood......you are spitting on your Messiah, just like your Father's did. !!
And maybe.....he finally had enough of it. of THEM..... As this was not the first time.
This was years and years, dealing with these religious HEBREW Christ haters he has been dealing with..
So, just maybe....this next verse i will lead you to happened right after Hebrews CH 10.

Go take a look at Acts 28:28, and consider that what you are reading in Hebrews CH 6 and 10 was the final Straw, for Paul.

blessings,

<dw><

Grip Docility · May 4, 2019

DeepWater said:
You know, its interesting that "Koine Greek", as in greek manuscripts, is "5th grade english", level, according to the "professionals" that grade this type stuff.
So, (early) translators understood this, also, and created a certain bible with the idea of "5th grade" level english, but true to the Receptus, text.

Where the NT becomes a problem for many, is not because of the language, or the doctrine, but its because it won't teach self righteousness., so, they twist it into a theological pretzel until it suits them.
Welcome......2500+ denominations.

There are over 200 "new" bibles that have been also so designed.... they are sort of greek text paraphrased slightly altered, books that say "holy bible" on them somewhere, and they make someone money when you buy them.
There use to be "Word Publishers" that created a "Pslams, Proverbs, NT"< leather cover, was the best bible i ever used....felt good in your hands........I had all my years of notes in a recently purchased one, back in 2013, and ended up leaving it on a Jet, as i was leaving the Jet going into the Atlanta Hub.
Years of study notes, and i hope someone found it and is using it.

Here is a nugget for the readers...
BEfore you buy another new version, and before you read another verse in yours, go and find out who created it........what denomination created your bible.......what is their Theology, as you will then find out something about why your bible has a certain (slanted) point of view about "gifts of the Spirit", or Grace.
......Wisdom is..... before you believe what you are being taught, find out what they believe about GRACE, The Blood of Jesus, The finished work of the Cross, and Jesus is God.......stuff like that.
This includes the creators of all bibles, and the teachers of all messages.
Including me.
Check me out. I can take it......i'm the real deal.
The thing about me is...... i do one thing really well.
I always Lift up the Blood of Jesus, and Give all the Credit to Christ for what HE DID.
EVerything i ever write here, is 98% a praise to the Blood and the Cross of Jesus.
Every Thread, is one POV....>"GIVE THE BLOOD OF JESUS ALL THE CREDIT".
SO, that is my proof text.
That is my theology.
That is my belief system.
I take NO CREDIT,.... I give it all to the ONE who DID IT ALL, EARNED IT ALL, and BLED out to prove the TRUTH. John 14:6
So, when a Legalist is fighting me about laws and "license to sin" and 10 commandments, and all this... stuff.
All i ever show them is....."Jesus saved you and KEEPS YOU SAVED", as that is all im really writing-teaching.
I am LIFTING UP THE LORD, AND LIFTING UP THE CROSS, AND LIFTING UP THE BLOOD.
AND LEGALISTS, are not., and that is why we clash and clash and will continue to., as it should be.

Sometimes when im teaching i'l be asked....."so then, what bible do you recommend".
Thats easy..
Any bible that accepts that God is manifested in the Flesh, and teaches this. in 1 Timothy 3:16.
And then i add...."if your bible says "HE, was manifested", then who is that?.... and why would your bible not want you to know that it is GOD who is manifested. ???
= they took GOD out of the VERSE, which is taking GOD out of the New Testament.
Who would want that word out? Who would want GOD out of the NT?
The Devil.
And then someone will say....well, you see, in Lexicon abc123, which has the dead sea scroll reading in it,..... its not found..... that term.
And then i say...well, im trained in manuscript evidence, so......"next".

Go with the bible that keeps God in it.
Works every time.

And here is something just for you, Grip Docility.... that no book, preacher, saint, or theologian has ever shown you., i'm pretty sure..
But i'll show you, as you are a believer who likes to study the word, and the others here who are reading me, and like to study to show yourself approved to God, check this out.

You noticed i posted this Thread you are on?
And i explained that an Apostle, (could be paul) lets say it is.... is having the usual riot in his face, when he tries to tell religious (legalist) Jews, about their Messiah. In Hebrews Ch 6 & 10.
Nothing new.
So, He is human, and he has feelings, its frustrating , can be, when you are glowing THE Light and nobody will have it.
So, Paul is glowing, he is blistering them with SIGNS, 2 Corinthians 12:12 He is doing everything he can to get his people to HEAR THE TRUTH and they are all texting each other and talking about the 10 commandments, and why they want to work their way into heaven.
So, He launches into them with some fierce facts..."you are sinning willfully....you are trodding on the blood......you are spitting on your Messiah, just like your Father's did. !!
And maybe.....he finally had enough of it. of THEM..... As this was not the first time.
This was years and years, dealing with these religious HEBREW Christ haters he has been dealing with..
So, just maybe....this next verse i will lead you to happened right after Hebrews CH 10.

Go take a look at Acts 28:28, and consider that what you are reading in Hebrews CH 6 and 10 was the final Straw, for Paul.

blessings,

<dw><

I read every word you wrote and looked up every scripture! I am forever thankful.

I too count all Loss but Christ! I feel empty to this world and only glory in explaining He is EVERYTHING! I count my failure evidence of the glory of His Grace! I count all Skubala, but Christ and His message of Love incomprehensible!

I too bleed my soul when I write scripture and ache so deeply that I would give my eyes up, that others could see, that are blinded by their desire to be their own Messiah!!!!

Your eternal Sibling IN HIM <Jesus, the Messiah/Mashiach, Redeemer, Creator, GOD INCARCERATE, our Defender, Our Life Giver... and the list could fill the UNIVERSE!>

Gratitude!

- Grip

Shalom to you, as well! <3

DeepWater · May 4, 2019

topher694 said:
All I see here is a bunch of theological theory. The focus is on what everyone else is doing wrong, and how you are right.
So the real question is, who are you helping?

Who am i helping?
Anyone who has been mislead to believe that Chapters 6 and 10 in the book of Hebrews, is teaching that you can lose your salvation.
So, that would be 100% of all Legalists, on the planet.

Then, there are believers who could be harmed on a forum like this one, by a devout Legalist who is misusing and abusing the book of Hebrews, to try to subvert their faith.
That would be the other group , found on a Thread like this one, that i'm trying to protect.

topher694 · May 4, 2019

DeepWater said:
Who am i helping?
Anyone who has been mislead to believe that Chapters 6 and 10 in the book of Hebrews, is teaching that you can lose your salvation.
So, that would be 100% of all Legalists, on the planet.

Then, there are believers who could be harmed on a forum like this one, by a devout Legalist who is misusing and abusing the book of Hebrews, to try to subvert their faith.
That would be the other group , found on a Thread like this one, that i'm trying to protect.

No, you're not helping anyone, you're trying to fix everyone. There's a big difference.

DeepWater · May 4, 2019

topher694 said:
No, you're not helping anyone, you're trying to fix everyone. There's a big difference.

You are quite the fan of your opinion.

But the reality is, i post Threads carefully and scripturally, and i respond to people here, using the NT.
You sit there and judge me, and all you offer is your opinion, as your evidence.
I'll let the readers decide for themselves, if what i teach, is Light and Right.
All they have to do, is what i do....Open the NT and SEE.
And you, topher694, are welcome to your opinion, but be careful that you don't allow it to become your god.

topher694 · May 4, 2019

DeepWater said:
You are quite the fan of your opinion.

But the reality is, i post Threads carefully and scripturally, and i respond to people here, using the NT.
You sit there and judge me, and all you offer is your opinion, as your evidence.
I'll let the readers decide for themselves, if what i teach, is Light and Right.
All they have to do, is what i do....Open the NT and SEE.
And you, topher694, are welcome to your opinion, but be careful that you don't allow it to become your god.

I'm the one who is a fan of my opinion? My opinion become my God? That's rich. I see around 10 threads and hundreds of posts that say you've got that backwards.

You don't let the readers see. You indirectly put them down if they don't agree. You just did it above.

I'll stand by the hundreds of people I've actually helped face to face and the demonstrable changes in their lives for the better, and the years of actual ministry experience I have over a few anonymous posts on the internet.

Again, there is a difference between helping people and trying to fix everyone. Perhaps you should take some of your careful scripture study time and investigate that. Maybe you don't have it all figured out and you could actually learn something that would make your "outreach" more effective.

Grip Docility · May 4, 2019

Galatians is my favorite book. Paul has to call Peter out for disassociating with Gentle Sinners when eating.

Paul then draws a clear line between those under the law and those under grace. He uses colorful analogies that even include an extreme example of “over circumcision”.

Paul’s approach was very direct. He spoke in gentleness, but also severely plain words. Paul was beaten for this. Every word he spoke was to Glory Christ.

I think back on a day, a person I was speaking with, about Grace, said... “Yes, yes, yes, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, It’s all about Jesus, but I’ll trust the words of *human prophets name omitted to keep the post neutral*.

That’s why I appreciate the clarity of @DeepWater ‘s threads.

Some won’t and some will.

If spelling out salvational assurance in Jesus to people that;

“But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4”

- is a bad thing, I would think Paul should be admonished, as well.

Rightly dividing some of Hebrews Chapter 10 (Legalists)

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