RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This sounds very much like an unbeliever who does not want to live with her:



According to that Scripture, she only must not divorce him if he is willing to live with her. The converse would also then be true. If he is unwilling to live with her, she may divorce him.

Her husband has demonstrated in many and multiple ways that he despises her and will continue to abuse her. That he is not willing to live with her. "Willing to live with her" does not mean hardly willing to tolerate her, barely short of killing her (on a good day -note his prior physical abuse!). Willing to live with her means a hearty approval to live with her, which he has definitely not demonstrated!

4909 syneudokéō (from 4862 /sýn, "identity with" and 2106 /eudokéō, "seems good") – properly, to consent in a "hearty" (personal) way, in keeping with the close identification involved (note the syn); enthusiastically agree to cooperate with a partner to reach solutions, i.e. to achieve the things both have committed to do together.​

Her husband in no fashion fits this description. She is not to divorce him if he fits this description. He does not even remotely try to, so according to the verse, she may divorce him.

A woman in her situation is likely a few months away from a health breakdown. Note she has already indicated it is affecting her health. Immediate separation is called for to protect her safety, followed by divorce if he is not willing to resume living with her in the fashion described under the definition above. She should remain separated at least a year even if he tries to come back sooner claiming repentance/change. It takes at least a year to prove out a change from behavior that has been this bad.

It seems that way.

Some translations say "happy" or "satisfied to live with her."

And this presumes the Christian wife is continually going about her Christian ways in fellowship with other Christians.

I'd also point out that it's possible for a man to have left the marriage without leaving the house.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am embarrassed to do this (my family has been concerned basically since day 1 with us and I have defended him so many times how could I go back to ask them). We did not get the full approval of our families and I'm embarrassed.

I can't speak for the dynamics in your family, but I'd be REALLY upset if my sister needed my help but was too embarrassed to ask. It would make me wonder what kind of a jerk I was acting like for her to think that.

Now every family is different, and I don't want to heap burdens on you if this really would be a problem - goodness knows you don't need anymore of those right now!

When I had to disclose to my family what was actually happening in my marriage they were shocked and rallied around me thicker than concrete sludge. They have a rare-divorce theology but they put that to the side to help support me in my situation, even though they could see it didn't check off all of their boxes. They were rock stars, and I'm thankful I let them be. That's their job.

All of this just to say your perspective about them might be not calibrated right with all of the gas lighting you suffered. It will take you a while to figure out your authentic truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: twobecomeone
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married


Sister, these are the words of the devil. Harsher words against a wife I have seldom heard, and I've heard a lot!!!

Yes, this is a spiritual battle to deter me from Christ. The devil is using his hurt to build a case against me. I pray he will fight against it.


Paul says: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul says we are all equal in the sight of Christ. No heaping of punishment on you due to your gender while absolving himself of the same thing.

Rebuke these devilish words against yourself by locking your husband out of the house asap. Consult a divorce attorney to see if you can/should have your divorce filed at the same time.




He has no right to cudgel you with this. Don't ever let him do this again. Walk away...run outside if you have to. Get a hotel room. Don't permit this abuse upon yourself.


I have told him this a few months ago that I will not any more and and his response has been that I won't do it because I am not ashamed nor does he truly feel I've repented/remorseful. I have told him I don't need to convince him anymore and have been redeemed by my Messiah. He doesn't agree, but I told him Jesus is the Master of our house and I will serve him.


This quote scares me about you, and your safety. He has stolen your sense of righteousness from you to make you feel you bear ANY responsibility for the abuse you suffered. I wish you could see your words from a third party perspective. When he stops treating you worse than dung, you'll stop feeling this way. It's very difficult for a wife in your situation to not experience these feelings at the hand of an abuser.

Look carefully at this verse:

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Do you see that the root of bitterness springing up troubling you and thereby defiling many is describing some failing that a man (person) has done that has affected the rest of the assembly causing the root of bitterness to defile many?

Many in our evangelical tradition twist that verse to blame the victim for being bitter. No, ma'am. The blame is to the man failing the grace of God and evicting him from the assembly when he fails the grace of God to prevent defiling many with bitterness.

Please stop blaming yourself or looking to yourself as any source of your husbands cruel and severe abuse.

The rest of your post was so hard to read. I'm so, so very sorry that your dignity and value was stomped on so severely. If it was hard to read, I can only imagine how difficult it was to survive all of that.

I think I remember your post, unless there is another poor soul in a similar situation that was on these boards.

Yes, it was me... and when I thought about posting again, I thought about you and your kind words from before. I removed it when a male there stated my spouse was right in his reason to not have kids with me based on what I explained. Thank you again. :hug:

Please reach out to marriagebuilders.com for tactical help stepping through this process. The volunteers there have helped women in your position before and will do so under the supervision of a fabulous, experienced Dr. of Psychology who is a Christian. Their help is for free.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Endeavourer
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, this is definitely a concern. She can be the only one to decide what the safest exit would be. Sometimes the most ideal way is not the safest.


In the past, he would tell me to unlock the door or come to him to talk and promised we would just talk and he won't do anything. When I did he tricked me.

I don't know why he hates me so much. The scripture on Malachi you posted is so true for me. I've read it a few time to try to understand why he is doing this to me (my original post, lying before/after marriage, lying about wanting kids, financial infidelity...) Sometimes, I am praying over my food thanking God and just break down crying, somethings at work out of nowhere, and also at church...just out of nowhere. I see God trying to move his heart and correct him. But his heart is hard. I pray for him and his family to turn to God and Christ. I have asked him why he hates me and he says he loves me but has a problem with my 'purity.' I don't trust his "I don't care" if you leave. That is why I will analyze a way to do this.

This (in blue) relates to me so much and I know Father hears me:

Malachi 2 13-16

And this is the second thing you do:
You cover the altar of the LORD with tears,
With weeping and crying;

So He does not regard the offering anymore,
Nor receive it with goodwill from your hands.
Yet you say, “For what reason?”

Because the LORD has been witness
Between you and the wife of your youth,
With whom you have dealt treacherously;
Yet she is your companion
And your wife by covenant.
But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly offspring.

And so, we are also not having kids. But the Lord's grace is enough. Amen.


It sounds like from her last post she has a way to take everything with her.

Yes, I can afford movers/am saving up for them when the time is right.

The lease is in my name (my income supported our entire marriage) but I may be able to leave sooner than later since it will be ending in a couple of months. I won't divorce him unless for adultery, but will separate. As you said, I think a year will be good and I won't go back unless I see true repentance and I trust God will show me if there is fruit. I need a long time to heal. I need to find myself. I forgave him fully and wholeheartedly once I got saved but as you and others said, it will be on him to show true repentance or we remain separated (unless he decides to move on with other women). Thank You and Everyone who provided me feedback on his responsibility/accountability if he decides to not want to reconcile.
@twobecomeone do you have a way to get off the lease, or is the house jointly owned by you? If it is jointly owned, you may have to keep up the payments through the divorce process in order to protect your equity in it. Your divorce attorney will have some advice regarding that.

 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Endeavourer
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, this is a spiritual battle to deter me from Christ. The devil is using his hurt to build a case against me. I pray he will fight against it.

Right now you need to get busy getting yourself to an emotionally safe place. Don't worry about your husband for the moment, or what he fights against. He can fight against it in an empty room, without you. It no longer concerns you. He is not a safe person now, and he won't be a safe person when he takes up that fight, nor while he fights it and he might not even still be a safe person if he wins that fight. However, that is all for him to prove far from now, way in the future.

I have told him this a few months ago that I will not any more and and his response has been that I won't do it because I am not ashamed nor does he truly feel I've repented/remorseful. I have told him I don't need to convince him anymore and have been redeemed by my Messiah. He doesn't agree, but I told him Jesus is the Master of our house and I will serve him.

Twobecomeone, you need to tune anything he says completely out right now. He's had his say for a long time and his say offers you nothing but sickness and abuse. Listening to him is like trying to comply with a falling down drunk's commands. He offers only wicked abuse and not a single care about your well being. Don't give anything he says even the weight of a feather in your consideration. You need to take your reality back for yourself.

Yes, it was me... and when I thought about posting again, I thought about you and your kind words from before. I removed it when a male there stated my spouse was right in his reason to not have kids with me based on what I explained. Thank you again. :hug:

Ugggh. There is a steady band of uglies that haunt this forum to prey on women who they think might not be submitting to their husbands well enough regardless of his abuse. Then there's the no-divorce-ever-even-if-you-will-end-up-dead legalists on here too. I'm so sorry about that.

I remember being in your place (and my situation was not as bad as yours) and not having any more strength left to defend myself. Fortunately I was on a different forum (the one I keep telling you about) where the advice is moderated and provided by seasoned volunteers who have all been helped by the same program, so none of that is permitted there. Trying to defend your worthiness to receive even a ray of respect when you are so beat down is so daunting. I understand why you removed the post.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: twobecomeone
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I can't speak for the dynamics in your family, but I'd be REALLY upset if my sister needed my help but was too embarrassed to ask. It would make me wonder what kind of a jerk I was acting like for her to think that.

Now every family is different, and I don't want to heap burdens on you if this really would be a problem - goodness knows you don't need anymore of those right now!

When I had to disclose to my family what was actually happening in my marriage they were shocked and rallied around me thicker than concrete sludge. They have a rare-divorce theology but they put that to the side to help support me in my situation, even though they could see it didn't check off all of their boxes. They were rock stars, and I'm thankful I let them be. That's their job.

All of this just to say your perspective about them might be not calibrated right with all of the gas lighting you suffered. It will take you a while to figure out your authentic truth.


When I had to disclose to my family what was actually happening in my marriage they were shocked and rallied around me thicker than concrete sludge. ----------They would do this and have mentioned without pushing me if I ever needed them, they will be ready. I am just embarrassed for the fact that I defended his integrity to them for so many years when really he has not been kind to me nor has he defended my honor/uplifted me to his family. I'm just not ready yet to tell them I will be separating and also about not having kids. I am praying God will direct me in that conversation when it needs to happen. My family all knew that we were going to have kids and they know I always wanted them (they kept asking until one day they stopped) so it's confusing after so many years of marriage we never had them and on top of that this stuff is happening. I have made excuses to them for him lying to me about kids and I grieve this every day. I'm just not ready to share what is happening until I've settled down somewhere peacefully and started counseling. And, hopefully God will direct that conversation when/if it needs to happen. Thank you again.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In the past, he would tell me to unlock the door or come to him to talk and promised we would just talk and he won't do anything. When I did he tricked me.

I don't know why he hates me so much.

Honestly he seems like a text book psychopath to me. Psychopaths don't have empathy for others and use the fact that others have empathy for him to manipulate them. He knows you feel empathy and introspection so he's just playing games with you. You need to cut off **EVERYTHING** you feel with the lying liar that he is and stop feeling empathy for him. That's the only way you can survive his abuse.
And so, we are also not having kids. But the Lord's grace is enough. Amen.

Oh, Twobecomeone, this is a merciful situation. It seems grievous to you now, but imagine trying to parent with an evil manipulator like your husband. He would use the child to destroy you. He would alienate the child from you, and then you would feel grief 100x what you feel now.
The lease is in my name (my income supported our entire marriage) but I may be able to leave sooner than later since it will be ending in a couple of months.
Great timing. This actually could work out very well for you. Your lease probably has a 30 day notice (some have 60 or 90 days, so check). The day you give them notice that you won't renew you could have the movers show up and move you out. You'll lose a month (or a few months) of rent if your husband won't pay the rent, in order to keep your credit rating OK, but that is a small price if you can do it. If you let on that you are worried about this he surely won't pay it, so don't do that.

Abusive psychopaths can sense a change in your demeanor and then can become even more dangerous so be careful.

I won't divorce him unless for adultery, but will separate.

Please reconsider this. Just because you file/finalize divorce doesn't mean you will remarry. A formal divorce will protect you financially and legally from any debts he would run up. As long as you haven't filed you might be liable for EVERYTHING he does. It is not a stretch to imagine him purposefully trying to ruin your future by running up debt, ruining your credit and stealing your savings by having creditors go after them to satisfy his debts.

Your theology about divorce is likely more concerned about remarriage than about divorce. Please move forward with the divorce. You can refrain from remarrying if your conscience requires but do get divorced.[/quote][/quote][/QUOTE]
 
  • Informative
Reactions: twobecomeone
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,119
20,158
US
✟1,440,434.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just because you file/finalize divorce doesn't mean you will remarry. A formal divorce will protect you financially and legally from any debts he would run up. As long as you haven't filed you might be liable for EVERYTHING he does. It is not a stretch to imagine him purposefully trying to ruin your future by running up debt, ruining your credit and stealing your savings by having creditors go after them to satisfy his debts.

This outcome is a virtual certainty.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Honestly he seems like a text book psychopath to me. Psychopaths don't have empathy for others and use the fact that others have empathy for him to manipulate them. He knows you feel empathy and introspection so he's just playing games with you. You need to cut off **EVERYTHING** you feel with the lying liar that he is and stop feeling empathy for him. That's the only way you can survive his abuse.


Oh, Twobecomeone, this is a merciful situation. It seems grievous to you now, but imagine trying to parent with an evil manipulator like your husband. He would use the child to destroy you. He would alienate the child from you, and then you would feel grief 100x what you feel now.

Great timing. This actually could work out very well for you. Your lease probably has a 30 day notice (some have 60 or 90 days, so check). The day you give them notice that you won't renew you could have the movers show up and move you out. You'll lose a month (or a few months) of rent if your husband won't pay the rent, in order to keep your credit rating OK, but that is a small price if you can do it. If you let on that you are worried about this he surely won't pay it, so don't do that.

Abusive psychopaths can sense a change in your demeanor and then can become even more dangerous so be careful.




Thank you, I plan to follow this and am getting myself ready for this process. He has been difficult with his portion of the bills (ex. I’ll get it to you when I get it to you) and won’t agree to a set date to pay and split all our bills. So I may be on my own for paying whatever fees I occur since it’s in my name. I will discuss with them if I can do a payment plan as that will be my only way to avoid my credit being messed up. Also to my knowledge, there isn’t anything that’s scripted that says I can divorce for this, but separation can occur. Can you explain more feedback why this would be justifiable especially since no adultery has occurred. Thank you again.


Please reconsider this. Just because you file/finalize divorce doesn't mean you will remarry. A formal divorce will protect you financially and legally from any debts he would run up. As long as you haven't filed you might be liable for EVERYTHING he does. It is not a stretch to imagine him purposefully trying to ruin your future by running up debt, ruining your credit and stealing your savings by having creditors go after them to satisfy his debts.

Your theology about divorce is likely more concerned about remarriage than about divorce. Please move forward with the divorce. You can refrain from remarrying if your conscience requires but do get divorced.
[/quote][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you, I plan to follow this and am getting myself ready for this process. He has been difficult with his portion of the bills (ex. I’ll get it to you when I get it to you) and won’t agree to a set date to pay and split all our bills.

With respect to splitting your bills, do you ordinarily split your bills and that's what he's not agreeing to do? Or does he know you are planning to separate?

Also to my knowledge, there isn’t anything that’s scripted that says I can divorce for this, but separation can occur. Can you explain more feedback why this would be justifiable especially since no adultery has occurred. Thank you again.

First of all, Scripture does not require a marriage license from the State in order to be married. I know people from conservative, fundamentalist backgrounds who were married by the church but did not proceed to get the state license as a matter of conscience. To my conscience, what you do in the legal system with your extra-Biblical state marriage license to protect yourself from aggression by a psychopath has nothing to do with Scripture. Whether you still consider yourself married in your conscience after you see to cancelling out your extra- Biblical license (and protecting yourself legally) is up to you. But you don't need a valid state license in order to think that you are married, per Scripture.

Secondly, according to the Scripture cited earlier in your thread, you may NOT divorce your husband if he is pleased to live with you. So why would Scripture say that unless you COULD divorce your husband if he is not pleased to live with you? So the abandonment by your husband (whether physically or emotionally via abuse) is a widely recognized Biblical reason for a divorce.

So, the exception for adultery, found in Matthew, is only the first of two available remedies for believers. The second remedy is for a believing person whose spouse is not pleased to dwell with him/her.

Is there any reason why you think the passage in 1 Cor 7 is unclear with respect to a divorce?

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Is there anything about this passage that gives you doubt about your freedom to escape the bondage of an unbelieving husband who is not pleased to dwell with you?
 
Upvote 0

DZoolander

Persnickety Member
Apr 24, 2007
7,279
2,128
Far far away
✟112,634.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
There are things you can do when you separate to create financial distance from your spouse...and it is crucial that you do so. When I went through a divorce with my ex years and years ago - the very first thing I did once I had her leave the house was to go to the bank and start the process rolling.

I can't remember exactly what the steps were - as it's been over 20 years since. My goal was to have myself removed from our joint bank account - but I remember there being some issues with that and it would have required me closing the account (and I think I wasn't prepared to do that at the moment - I just wanted the division - I didn't want to leave her high and dry). So I think I let the joint account be - withdrew half of what was in there - then opened an account under my own name and worked with that one going forward.

Since I was going for divorce - I can't speak authoritatively on the ways of protecting yourself if you're only separating. But unless you look into it and follow through - you'll potentially be put into a very bad spot not of your own making.

TBH though - and this is a sidetrack - if I were you I'd just get a divorce. People get so wrapped up on terms. What is the effective difference between how you're envisioning "separation" and what "divorce" is? The potential to remarry? Is that really the crux of it? You can manage that as your heart sees fit - and take advantage of the legal protections that divorce affords. Then let your conscience and beliefs be your guide about how you handle the whole remarriage issue.
 
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
With respect to splitting your bills, do you ordinarily split your bills and that's what he's not agreeing to do? Or does he know you are planning to separate?



First of all, Scripture does not require a marriage license from the State in order to be married. I know people from conservative, fundamentalist backgrounds who were married by the church but did not proceed to get the state license as a matter of conscience. To my conscience, what you do in the legal system with your extra-Biblical state marriage license to protect yourself from aggression by a psychopath has nothing to do with Scripture. Whether you still consider yourself married in your conscience after you see to cancelling out your extra- Biblical license (and protecting yourself legally) is up to you. But you don't need a valid state license in order to think that you are married, per Scripture.

Secondly, according to the Scripture cited earlier in your thread, you may NOT divorce your husband if he is pleased to live with you. So why would Scripture say that unless you COULD divorce your husband if he is not pleased to live with you? So the abandonment by your husband (whether physically or emotionally via abuse) is a widely recognized Biblical reason for a divorce.

So, the exception for adultery, found in Matthew, is only the first of two available remedies for believers. The second remedy is for a believing person whose spouse is not pleased to dwell with him/her.

Is there any reason why you think the passage in 1 Cor 7 is unclear with respect to a divorce?

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Is there anything about this passage that gives you doubt about your freedom to escape the bondage of an unbelieving husband who is not pleased to dwell with you?



I guess for me it's because how other Pastors have described it is if he does not want to "physically" leave. Which in this case he does not (regardless of his motive to stay). I also don't want to add more sin on top of sin since God hates divorce. Thank you.
 
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are things you can do when you separate to create financial distance from your spouse...and it is crucial that you do so. When I went through a divorce with my ex years and years ago - the very first thing I did once I had her leave the house was to go to the bank and start the process rolling.


I can't remember exactly what the steps were - as it's been over 20 years since. My goal was to have myself removed from our joint bank account - but I remember there being some issues with that and it would have required me closing the account (and I think I wasn't prepared to do that at the moment - I just wanted the division - I didn't want to leave her high and dry). So I think I let the joint account be - withdrew half of what was in there - then opened an account under my own name and worked with that one going forward.

Since I was going for divorce - I can't speak authoritatively on the ways of protecting yourself if you're only separating. But unless you look into it and follow through - you'll potentially be put into a very bad spot not of your own making.

TBH though - and this is a sidetrack - if I were you I'd just get a divorce. People get so wrapped up on terms. What is the effective difference between how you're envisioning "separation" and what "divorce" is? The potential to remarry? Is that really the crux of it? You can manage that as your heart sees fit - and take advantage of the legal protections that divorce affords. Then let your conscience and beliefs be your guide about how you handle the whole remarriage issue.


Thank you Brother. I did this ahead of time to protect myself which is why he is being difficult with bills (he had been given an ultimatum by me to start helping pay bills equally). We both have to be present to remove me--which he won't. So I will have to close out joint accounts. Separation for me until/IF he is fit to live with. If he does anything treacherous (financially), I then plan to look at legal options. My paycheck will be effective at the moment because insurance is in my name (which is why I am so burden and feel financially abused). Everything major has always been or is in my name (rent, medical, utilities, groceries [he contributes at times], emergencies...) so that I am unable to get above water. I have been the breadwinner in the family. But I had to really to save up and limit everything I do when I realized I'm going broke because I pay for everything and he had his own savings/money (that I found out about, or found that he has hidden from me). My next concern is filing for taxes because I don't want to get penalized for him not having insurance? I'm reasearching how that works on end.

Thank you again Brother. I am glad to be recieving Male advice as well. :)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
With respect to splitting your bills, do you ordinarily split your bills and that's what he's not agreeing to do? Or does he know you are planning to separate?




First of all, Scripture does not require a marriage license from the State in order to be married. I know people from conservative, fundamentalist backgrounds who were married by the church but did not proceed to get the state license as a matter of conscience. To my conscience, what you do in the legal system with your extra-Biblical state marriage license to protect yourself from aggression by a psychopath has nothing to do with Scripture. Whether you still consider yourself married in your conscience after you see to cancelling out your extra- Biblical license (and protecting yourself legally) is up to you. But you don't need a valid state license in order to think that you are married, per Scripture.

Secondly, according to the Scripture cited earlier in your thread, you may NOT divorce your husband if he is pleased to live with you. So why would Scripture say that unless you COULD divorce your husband if he is not pleased to live with you? So the abandonment by your husband (whether physically or emotionally via abuse) is a widely recognized Biblical reason for a divorce.

So, the exception for adultery, found in Matthew, is only the first of two available remedies for believers. The second remedy is for a believing person whose spouse is not pleased to dwell with him/her.

Is there any reason why you think the passage in 1 Cor 7 is unclear with respect to a divorce?

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Is there anything about this passage that gives you doubt about your freedom to escape the bondage of an unbelieving husband who is not pleased to dwell with you?



With respect to splitting your bills, do you ordinarily split your bills and that's what he's not agreeing to do? Or does he know you are planning to separate?

As of a couple of months, I have forced him to start helping me with the bills (rent/utilities...) equally (50/50). Now he is being difficult and won't/can't guarantee me a time he will have it to me nor will he leave. He is asking me if God is telling me to do this-- trying to trip me up-- and I told him what God thinks of me as his daughter and what he doesn't like. He just won't stop attacking me biblical and I'm just a bit overwhelmed and confused, especially with this change. But I keep reminding myself would this same cycle of trying to make it work go on in the next 2 month or even 2 years. I reminded myself it has to stop. This has happened for soo many years and it feels weird being firm and Actually doing what I said I would do if it didn't stop. Now he's attacking me with my faith and twisting my words and beliefs (i.e asking me is God telling you to do this?). It's exhausting. I told him I will not discuss the marriage 'until he is fit to live with'---thank you for this comment I said it to him. I'm having the locks changed.

I'm thinking about writing him a short letter, I just don't know what to write. I will pray on it. If you or anyone have any suggestions, please send me a personal message. Thank you again.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,719
1,472
Cloud 9
✟89,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I guess for me it's because how other Pastors have described it is if he does not want to "physically" leave. Which in this case he does not (regardless of his motive to stay). I also don't want to add more sin on top of sin since God hates divorce. Thank you.

Dear sister, God does NOT hate divorce; he hates the TREACHERY that causes divorce. The Lord himself divorced Israel due to her treachery.

What the Lord hates in your situation is how your husband is treating his daughter. Would it please an earthly father to keep his daughter in bondage to a cruel abuser like your husband?

Matt 7:9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?​

I was paralyzed in the same place you are for many years. Knowing that I needed to end my marriage but not daring to because of what I understood the pastors to be teaching. I didn't dare to read the actual words in the Bible without the sacrificial living filter I had...the idea that I was responsible to be a beautiful example of a Christian to win my abuser to Christ. So I would read over the obvious in the Bible without reading it; assuming "yeah, it doesn't really mean that".

One day when I was just desperate to have some solution for the situation I was praying and praying for the Lord to give me wisdom (just like I had 1,000's of times before) except this time I was more desperate and more demanding of the Lord's attention and help. I was at my end. The Lord gave me the 2nd half of Isaiah 28:

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
23Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.
24Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
25When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place?
26For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.
27For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.
28Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.
29This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.
Now some will say the verse doesn't really talk about marriage, but it talked DIRECTLY to my exact situation. When I read the words "you have made a covenant with death" I was struck to attention because there was NO better way to describe a marriage to an abuser. This passage allowed me to realize all this "marriage covenants cannot be broken" theology was nonsense. I felt the command of the Lord to take a stick (staff) and beat it out. To take proactive measures to end my suffering under abuse.

Now, in my background, separating without adultery or the unbeliever physically leaving would have not incurred the blessing of the church, and might even incur church discipline for doing so. Sister, I chose to fear man more than God and continue in this abusive situation because I was AFRAID of what some pastors say. After about a year of this my body suffered irreparable damage from the stress. I will never have my health back the way it was before. When I realized that not stepping up boldly to beat out this covenant of death me was costing my life, and that my kids were better off with a mom who has been disfellowshipped than a mom in a grave, I finally dared to fear God more than man and with ever so timidly started inching toward what I should have done boldly a LONG time ago.

I spent over a year afterwards studying Scriptures to understand how the Lord's direction to me (to beat out the covenant of death with a stick) jives with the rest of the Scriptures because it seemed initially not to. I won't go into all of the theology here, but I started allowing myself to read and believe what the words REALLY say, and that was quite an eye opener.

Sister, please fear God more than what some pastors say, before it is too late. Please!!!!
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: twobecomeone
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dear sister, God does NOT hate divorce; he hates the TREACHERY that causes divorce. The Lord himself divorced Israel due to her treachery.

What the Lord hates in your situation is how your husband is treating his daughter. Would it please an earthly father to keep his daughter in bondage to a cruel abuser like your husband?

Matt 7:9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?​

I was paralyzed in the same place you are for many years. Knowing that I needed to end my marriage but not daring to because of what I understood the pastors to be teaching. I didn't dare to read the actual words in the Bible without the sacrificial living filter I had...the idea that I was responsible to be a beautiful example of a Christian to win my abuser to Christ. So I would read over the obvious in the Bible without reading it; assuming "yeah, it doesn't really mean that".

One day when I was just desperate to have some solution for the situation I was praying and praying for the Lord to give me wisdom (just like I had 1,000's of times before) except this time I was more desperate and more demanding of the Lord's attention and help. I was at my end. The Lord gave me the 2nd half of Isaiah 28:

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
23Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.
24Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
25When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place?
26For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.
27For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.
28Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.
29This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.
Now some will say the verse doesn't really talk about marriage, but it talked DIRECTLY to my exact situation. When I read the words "you have made a covenant with death" I was struck to attention because there was NO better way to describe a marriage to an abuser. This passage allowed me to realize all this "marriage covenants cannot be broken" theology was nonsense. I felt the command of the Lord to take a stick (staff) and beat it out. To take proactive measures to end my suffering under abuse.

Now, in my background, separating without adultery or the unbeliever physically leaving would have not incurred the blessing of the church, and might even incur church discipline for doing so. Sister, I chose to fear man more than God and continue in this abusive situation because I was AFRAID of what some pastors say. After about a year of this my body suffered irreparable damage from the stress. I will never have my health back the way it was before. When I realized that not stepping up boldly to beat out this covenant of death me was costing my life, and that my kids were better off with a mom who has been disfellowshipped than a mom in a grave, I finally dared to fear God more than man and with ever so timidly started inching toward what I should have done boldly a LONG time ago.

I spent over a year afterwards studying Scriptures to understand how the Lord's direction to me (to beat out the covenant of death with a stick) jives with the rest of the Scriptures because it seemed initially not to. I won't go into all of the theology here, but I started allowing myself to read and believe what the words REALLY say, and that was quite an eye opener.

Sister, please fear God more than what some pastors say, before it is too late. Please!!!!



Thank you Sister for all the advice, tough love, and advice You and others Bretherns have given me. I will pray for all of you and I am so glad the Holy Spirt asked me to reach out for fellowship and accountability. The next step will be counseling for me. I just don't feel right now that divorce is an option. With some difficulties, I was able to change the locks and he is no longer staying here and, when I called on God immediately during this event, he sent me assistance immediately to make this happened. I am so lost at the moment --as I have been used to "this" for many years. I sat on the floor Alone - 'physically' alone this time - and just sat in shock. But I heard God. I heard the Holy Spirit reminding me over and over that I am NOT alone. I'll need some time to adjust to this, but I hope to give a update once I can wrap my head around this. We married very young so my young adulthood was 'this' and I haven't had friends all this time. So speaking up and doing this, I hope I can be a testimony for other women going thru this. God Bless and thank you again Sister for your feedback on this post and on my past one.:hug::hug::hug:
 
Upvote 0

twobecomeone

Active Member
Nov 29, 2018
25
27
Mountain Standard
✟11,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
:groupray:Thank you to all my Brother's and Sisters who have given me advice here. Please read post #38 to see where I am at right now. I will pray for all of you and I am so glad The Holy Spirit asked me to reach out for fellowship and accountability. May God Bless You all. And I hope my testimony can help other women in my or similar situations. Amen. :groupray::amen:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,503
6,392
Midwest
✟78,404.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I guess for me it's because how other Pastors have described it is if he does not want to "physically" leave. Which in this case he does not (regardless of his motive to stay). I also don't want to add more sin on top of sin since God hates divorce. Thank you.
God wants husbands to love their wives not spew hatred towards them.
 
Upvote 0