Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Lost4words · May 3, 2019

The Church and the Word of God go hand in hand.

Shimokita · May 3, 2019

AACJ said:
Textual variants are not an obstacle to the accurate preservation and transmission of God's Word.

Of course they are not an obstacle, because of the the Sacred Tradition of the Church which lends to proper interpretation, regardless of whatever textual variations may exist in the copying of the text of Sacred Scripture.

W2L · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
if you need the bible to learn to treat people with respect, the bible won't help you.

Michael Collum said:
Whoa. Cult theology.

W2L said:
Explain please.

You dont accuse someone of being influenced by a cult unless you prove it. Otherwise its just slander. Christians dont slander, is that respectful? Perhaps you dont know how to treat others with respect because you never learned.

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Based on what Jesus said about it, it means anything else you have to say is from another root of teaching and not worth listening to.

Just side step explaining your basis for appropriate respect for others apart from the influence of Scripture. OK. It is easy to claim the obviousness of appropriate respect in a culture heavily influenced by Scripture.

Appeal to absolute truth claims apart from absolute truth. Ok.

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I agree the bible teaches that. However, if you need the bible to learn to treat people with respect, the bible won't help you.

The Bible gives us ways to love God and our neighbor that goes beyond what the average person thinks about love. The lawyer willing to justify himself said unto Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?” (Luke 10:29).

Jesus replied with the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:30-37). In other words, we are to love the poor and or the beat up looking guy on the side of the road by helping them.

What about loving God?

Is it just doing our own thing?
No. Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

We are also to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, too.

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
That's a lot of defensiveness for one post.

I am merely speaking the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts (but it is nothing personal). I am merely standing up for what I believe is good and right. For has anyone ever accused you of being defensive when you stood up for your convictions or your morals?

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

W2L said:
Explain please.

We learn how to act from our mom and dad, and socializing, on a spiritual level, we learn by being intimate with God and learning new things on a heart level.

Saying it is the scripture that teaches us how to act implies we are robots to be programmed, through mind control, thus cult theology.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The Bible gives us ways to love God and our neighbor that goes beyond what the average person thinks about love. The lawyer willing to justify himself said unto Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?” (Luke 10:29).

Jesus replied with the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:30-37). In other words, we are to love the poor and or the beat up looking guy on the side of the road by helping them.

What about loving God?

Is it just doing our own thing?
No. Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

We are also to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, too.

It's a heart thing dude. Using the mind for a heart thing results in failure.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I am merely speaking the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts (but it is nothing personal). I am merely standing up for what I believe is good and right. For has anyone ever accused you of being defensive when you stood up for your convictions or your morals?

Jesus spoke of the truth.

He did say to the Father "thy word is truth"

He also said "the truth will set you free"

He also said "I am the Truth"

I see the appeal to God's words, but not the other dimensions of truth Jesus spoke of in your posts. I see slavery and an appeal to enslave others with following of laws.

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
We learn how to act from our mom and dad, and socializing, on a spiritual level, we learn by being intimate with God and learning new things on a heart level.

Saying it is the scripture that teaches us how to act implies we are robots to be programmed, through mind control, thus cult theology.

If you ever did a study on God’s commands in the New Testament, you would think otherwise. There are many commands in the NT on telling us how to act. I am up to six hundred plus commands so far in my study on the commands in the New Testament (and I am in the beginning of the 1st epistle of John).

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
If you ever did a study on God’s commands in the New Testament, you would think otherwise. There are many commands in the NT on telling us how to act. I am up to six hundred plus commands so far in my study on the commands in the New Testament (and I am in the beginning of the 1st epistle of John).

Participating in the divine nature is different than the slave covenant, using that mentality will result in failure to perform.

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Jesus spoke of the truth.

He did say to the Father "thy word is truth"

He also said "the truth will set you free"

He also said "I am the Truth"

I see the appeal to God's words, but not the other dimensions of truth Jesus spoke of in your posts. I see slavery and an appeal to enslave others with following of laws.

Again, this would be your own lack of knowledge of what the New Testament actually teaches. Try reading Luke 10:25-37, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, and Revelation 21:8 for starters.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Again, this would be your own lack of knowledge of what the New Testament actually teaches. Try reading Luke 10:25-37, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 21:8 for starters.

I guess you could read Galatians for starters and such.

Philip_B · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I am merely speaking the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts (but it is nothing personal). I am merely standing up for what I believe is good and right. For has anyone ever accused you of being defensive when you stand by your convictions or your morals?

This is sort of like the Israel Folau defence if you follow Rugby League in Australia. The proposition is that the right to religious freedom is overarching, and that an employer does not have a right to inhibit that in any way. In this case it is a sporting body that has embraced an inclusiveness code of conduct an a very gifted player who having been formally warned about anti-gay posts on social media, has indeed done it again. The Sporting Body has chosen to end the contract for the breach ($4Million a year to kick a football) which some are arguing is in breach of his freedom of religion which is in some sense enshrined in the constitution.

In your case that argument is for something that you declare to be an absolute truth - that is something that is true for all people for all time. A failure to express a concern for those who are hurt by such a standard is to my mind in conflict with the message of scripture.

I am not convinced that Jesus held to absolutes in this way, and that may be part of the message of the account of picking wheat on the sabbath - Mark 2:23-28.

And indeed I think in a way Paul argues for what may later come to be understood as a position of philosophical pragmatism, understand truth as the best answer we have at the moment, whilst acknowledging there may be a better answer at some later stage - see 1 Corinthians 13:12-13.

Yet also the write of the Johannine Epistles also in a way moves in a similar direction suggesting very clearly that as yet we do not have all the answers - 1 John 3:1-2

Standing on absolutes and ignoring the consequential damage to human beings made in the image and after the likeness of God - see Genesis 1:26-27 - is more like the lawyer and the priest and less like the samaritan - see Luke 10:25-37

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Participating in the divine nature is different than the slave covenant, using that mentality will result in failure to perform.

Nobody is suggesting we ignore that we are initially and ultimately saved by God’s grace through faith and that we ignore that God ultimately does the good work through us, but there are tons of commands in the New Testament given to us so as to tell us how to cooperate with God and to be in a right relationship with Him. To suggest so otherwise is to wear a blind fold and ignore the truth of what the Scriptures actually teach.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Nobody is suggesting we ignore that we are initially and ultimately saved by God’s grace through faith and that we ignore that God ultimately does the good work through us, but there are tons of commands in the New Testament given to us so as to tell us how to cooperate with God and to be in a right relationship with Him. To suggest so otherwise is to wear a blind fold and ignore the truth of what the Scriptures actually teach.

The Kingdom is not about talk, it is about power. The teachings themselves are kind of useless if you don't live them out and experience the reality of said kingdom.

The bible makes it simple, to be in a right relationship with God, we need to trust Him.

Over time, God cultivates love in us until it is matured to the point where we have boldness on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like Him.

The approach in the quoted post seeks to reach the goal by cleaning the outside of the cup, what I'm looking at is cleaning the inside of the cup, trusting as Jesus said, this will clean the outside also.

Trust,faith,belief also needs to be reflected in the interpretation and application of scripture. When it's about following rules and commandments, this is compensating for a lack of faith. However, without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Tutorman · May 3, 2019

Philip_B said:
In your case that argument is for something that you declare to be an absolute truth - that is something that is true for all people for all time. A failure to express a concern for those who are hurt by such a standard is to my mind in conflict with the message of scripture.

If I may this reminds me of a movie quote:

"Only a sith deals in absolutes"

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

That does give me an idea, as I am listening to my MP3 bible, I might do it blindfolded .. it might increase my concentration.

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Philip_B said:
This is sort of like the Israel Folau defence if you follow Rugby League in Australia. The proposition is that the right to religious freedom is overarching, and that an employer does not have a right to inhibit that in any way. In this case it is a sporting body that has embraced an inclusiveness code of conduct an a very gifted player who having been formally warned about anti-gay posts on social media, has indeed done it again. The Sporting Body has chosen to end the contract for the breach ($4Million a year to kick a football) which some are arguing is in breach of his freedom of religion which is in some sense enshrined in the constitution.

In your case that argument is for something that you declare to be an absolute truth - that is something that is true for all people for all time. A failure to express a concern for those who are hurt by such a standard is to my mind in conflict with the message of scripture.

I am not convinced that Jesus held to absolutes in this way, and that may be part of the message of the account of picking wheat on the sabbath - Mark 2:23-28.

And indeed I think in a way Paul argues for what may later come to be understood as a position of philosophical pragmatism, understand truth as the best answer we have at the moment, whilst acknowledging there may be a better answer at some later stage - see 1 Corinthians 13:12-13.

Yet also the write of the Johannine Epistles also in a way moves in a similar direction suggesting very clearly that as yet we do not have all the answers - 1 John 3:1-2

Standing on absolutes and ignoring the consequential damage to human beings made in the image and after the likeness of God - see Genesis 1:26-27 - is more like the lawyer and the priest and less like the samaritan - see Luke 10:25-37

So why did Jesus agree with the lawyer on the truth that we are to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life? It seems like you are in disagreement with it. I did not write Luke 10:25-28. It is God’s Word.

As for the Sabbath:

The Sabbath is no longer binding under the New Covenant. The confusion over the Sabbath before the cross with Jesus and the Pharisees was not Jesus making light of the Sabbath. The Pharisees simply did not put love as their primary focus or goal within the Sabbath. It was never meant to be in the way that they made it. I also can make another analogy to prove my case, but I know it will not be well received, so I will forgo it.

May God bless you.

Bible Highlighter · May 3, 2019

Tutorman said:
If I may this reminds me of a movie quote:

"Only a sith deals in absolutes"

I will side with Jesus; And Jesus says one cannot serve two masters.

Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Can the church survive without God's word?

Yes.

No.

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