Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Chesterton said:
Your confusion of Jesus Christ with the bible makes this post impossible to respond to.

Have I ascribed person-hood to the Bible?

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Tutorman said:
Absolutely but many evangelicals could not because they would have nothing to distort and twist.

Sophomoric.

Your statement helps to demonstrate the necessity of God's Word for a prosperous Church.

Chesterton · May 3, 2019

AACJ said:
Have I ascribed person-hood to the Bible?

I'm not sure, but when I was a kid, they taught me we capitalize proper nouns, you know, people and places. Yet you capitalize your nickname for a book. Not sure what to make of it.

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Chesterton said:
I'm not sure, but when I was a kid, they taught me we capitalize proper nouns, you know, people and places. Yet you capitalize your nickname for a book. Not sure what to make of it.

My nickname? Where are you from?

Proper nouns for people, places and things. The Bible is properly capitalized. Proper grammar and all that.

Tutorman · May 3, 2019

AACJ said:
Sophomoric.

Your statement helps to demonstrate the necessity of God's Word for a prosperous Church.

No my statement demonstrates no such thing. The Bible was not just magically dropped with being leather bound and gold edges, it was complied together by the Church through a council. You evangelicals refuse to even want to admit that. The Bible does not need to exist for Christianity to exist, Christ did not leave us a book He left us a Church. The fact of the matter is hat there would be no evangelicals without a Bible and Christianity would be smaller and dare I say it, more pure than much of the heretical nonsense that goes around GT all the time.

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Tutorman said:
No my statement demonstrates no such thing. The Bible was not just magically dropped with being leather bound and gold edges, it was complied together by the Church through a council. You evangelicals refuse to even want to admit that. The Bible does not need to exist for Christianity to exist, Christ did not leave us a book He left us a Church. The fact of the matter is hat there would be no evangelicals without a Bible and Christianity would be smaller and dare I say it, more pure than much of the heretical nonsense that goes around GT all the time.

So you believe the source of authoritative Truth is what?

Tutorman · May 3, 2019

AACJ said:
So you believe the source of authoritative Truth is what?

The ultimate source is God and on earth the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not a book

Gregory95 · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The topic of this thread is about the Bible alone (at it's heart). If I am to understand your reply here it sounds like you are saying that following the Bible alone is a false doctrine of men. Is that true?
Do you really believe the church would survive if all traces of the Bible was gone?
This would include any person not even recalling any bible verses.
There would be no preaching of the gospel.
Thus no salvation.
Granted, this is not going to happen, but the point here is that people think that a person can build their faith without the Bible. Such a thing is impossible. For we derive our faith from the Bible.

No no no my friend my issue is ive yet to see a denomination that follows the doctrine of Christ

Every "church" ive been to has ether neglected or only sprinkles true doctrine (the Bible) but for the rest of their "sermon" is ether unbiblical stories or doctrine of men

When i confront the "pastors" giving Scripture as why im concerned with what they are doing to their flock i get the run around or blatenly ignored when i don't physically meet with them (text and email)

i say look aeound because any one who has read the NT knows the state we find the "church" in is despicable

We have "pastors" who never even make sure their flock knows Christ

How often do you find "pastors" testing the spirit of their flock to make SURE they are not deceiving themselves for truly Christ said not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the Kingdom this should hit everyone hard but sadly MOST "Christians" haven't even read the Gospel they just blindly follow men beliving mans doctrine

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
That is a misconnect because the Scriptures are written by the Holy Spirit.

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"
(Ephesians 6:17).

"...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63).

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Timothy 3:16).

Jason0047 said:
So you believe ALL people will misuse Scripture and reject the guidance of the Spirit?
That doesn't sound like such is the case according to Revelation.
There is the mention of faithful saints.
The hypothetical scenario of:..."Can the church survive without God's Word (i.e. Scripture)?" will never happen because Jesus says His words will never pass away.
But hypothetically speaking if God did allow for such to happen, the church would not survive because we derive our faith from God's Word (Romans 10:17). We know about Jesus and His salvation via the Bible. We are warned against false Christs because of the Bible. If there was no Bible, we would not know about these false Christs. We would not even know of the gospel. People would just hear different voices and not truly know it was from God. Remember, Satan can appear as an angel of light.
God confirmed the word of God with signs (miracles). Jesus performed signs (miracles), and His followers (the early church) performed miracles (signs) to confirm the Word of God was indeed the true Word from God.

"And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen" (Mark 16:20).

Why do you think Moses performed miracles of God?
It was to show the world that he was indeed a prophet of God, and that the words that would be given to him (the first five books of Moses) were indeed from God.

Jason0047 said:
Well, I do see certain religions kissing the Bible, like they kiss statues and stuff. I suppose this is "Bible idolatry." But it is not possible for the Bible to take place of the Holy Spirit because the Bible was written by the Holy Spirit. If a person believes and follows everything in the Bible, they are following the Spirit's instructions. For the Word of God is the sword of the Spirit.

That's a lot of defensiveness for one post.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
So you believe ALL people will misuse Scripture and reject the guidance of the Spirit?

I believe enough will to drag the rest of the team down.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The Bible teaches us to love God and to love your neighbor.

I agree the bible teaches that. However, if you need the bible to learn to treat people with respect, the bible won't help you.

Chesterton · May 3, 2019

AACJ said:
My nickname? Where are you from?

Um, maybe I'll tell you where I'm from if you can tell how it's relevant.

Proper nouns for people, places and things. The Bible is properly capitalized. Proper grammar and all that.

You didn't even use the word "bible" in your post. :scratch:

Athanasius377 · May 3, 2019

Shimokita said:
Can I demonstrate how what does not follow? Not sure if you have been following the convo that my statement relates to.

I think it is pretty amusing when people ask for "Rome's official interprepretation of this or that passage." Very amusing indeed.

So you don't have an answer. Now that's amusing.

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
However, if you need the bible to learn to treat people with respect, the bible won't help you.

You referring to the so called golden rule? Well, the golden rule was not intended by Christ to be an absolute standard; such a rule fails in certain circumstances; and neither did Christ intend it to be used apart from the influence of His Written Word.

Do you really believe that any society "learns" or has learned to treat others with respect apart from the influence of Scripture? History certainly does not demonstrate such. When has any society upheld the Golden Rule apart from the influence of Scripture?

I believe your statement presumes the truth claim that there is a standard of treating people with appropriate respect. There is no such standard outside of God's revealed Word, such standard including enabling principles for treating others well.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

AACJ said:
You referring to the so called golden rule? Well, the golden rule was not intended by Christ to be an absolute standard.

Based on what Jesus said about it, it means anything else you have to say is from another root of teaching and not worth listening to.

Shimokita · May 3, 2019

Athanasius377 said:
So you don't have an answer. Now that's amusing.

There is nothing to answer friend, you didn't ask a proper question.

To clarify, this is the statement that we have been debating:

FireDragon76 said:
All Bibles, regardless of the version or canon, include sufficient information for a person to understand they are a sinner and Christ is their Savior who died for them to atone for their sins.

Now, if you would like me to demonstrate how the above statement does not logically follow from the verse from John that he quoted, I would be happy to do it for you.

But that is rather easy. A person of such high intelligence as yourself should have no problem doing it by yourself.

W2L · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I agree the bible teaches that. However, if you need the bible to learn to treat people with respect, the bible won't help you.

I disagree. Without scripture we have no foundation. Where did you learn how to act? From scripture.

AACJ · May 3, 2019

Shimokita said:
Interesting question. Precisely what do you consider to be God’s word? The English language NIV or KJV that is on your desk? The originally written manuscripts that were hand written by the various authors of the Bible, and which no longer exist? The compilations of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that are compiled from non-exact copies of the original works, the earliest non-exact copies themselves dating several hundred years after the originals, and varying with each other at numerous locations?

Textual variants are not an obstacle to the accurate preservation and transmission of God's Word. Christ would not have referenced Scripture if it was not accurate, truthful, and authoritative. The historical copying of Scripture was no more a barrier to God in preserving Scripture than being made in the likeness of man was a barrier to his perfection in bodily form.

Gregory Thompson · May 3, 2019

W2L said:
I disagree. Without scripture we have no foundation. Where did you learn how to act? From scripture.

Whoa. Cult theology.

W2L · May 3, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Whoa. Cult theology.

Explain please.

Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Can the church survive without God's word?

Yes.

No.

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