Should the government build affordable housing?

OldWiseGuy · May 3, 2019

Should the government contract to build affordable housing instead of badgering, or requiring, builders to include low cost housing in their real estate developments? It seems that they can do this quite easily as they have the resources and the zoning authority. As these new neighborhoods would be part of municipal expansion there would be few with reason to oppose the plan. Thoughts?

Apologetic_Warrior · May 3, 2019

Yes the government should help the elderly and disabled homeless and poor working people, and there is help, but...

Affordable Housing

HUD Homes for Sale

...from what I understand the biggest problem is with the exceptionally long waiting lists, like years.

In general, building contractors are contacted by potential customers and decide whether to accept a project or not, building contractors do not necessarily own the real estate, in many instances the potential customer own the land and hires the building contractor to build a structure following a set of blueprints either designed in coordination with the customer by the building contractor and or based on the work of an architect hired by the building contractor.

RichardY · May 3, 2019

I would say no. It may provide some temporary relief, but end up compounding problems. Taking from one to give to the other.

Detroit and Venezuela, are fairly affordable for housing. If property tax were abolished, people could homestead in Detroit, to bring houses back into use. Rent-seeking is the problem.

OldWiseGuy · May 3, 2019

RichardY said:
I would say no. It may provide some temporary relief, but end up compounding problems. Taking from one to give to the other.

Detroit and Venezuela, are fairly affordable for housing. If property tax were abolished, people could homestead in Detroit, to bring houses back into use. Rent-seeking is the problem.

Temporary relief is good as many of the homeless are only temporarily so. Most get back on their feet eventually and so government housing would become available for others.

I think the biggest problem is that we are embarrassed by our poor and are trying to 'hide' them within middle class neighborhoods so they won't be so evident.

Another problem is the high cost of staffing social programs for the poor. By the time everyone is paid there is little left for...the poor. :swoon:

OldWiseGuy · May 3, 2019

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Yes the government should help the elderly and disabled homeless and poor working people, and there is help, but...

Affordable Housing

HUD Homes for Sale

...from what I understand the biggest problem is with the exceptionally long waiting lists, like years.

In general, building contractors are contacted by potential customers and decide whether to accept a project or not, building contractors do not necessarily own the real estate, in many instances the potential customer own the land and hires the building contractor to build a structure following a set of blueprints either designed in coordination with the customer by the building contractor and or based on the work of an architect hired by the building contractor.

My plan circumvents commercially built housing altogether. So called "affordable housing" isn't affordable at all.

High Fidelity · May 3, 2019

I don't see why not. American houses are incredibly cheap and fast to build and it's not like there's a shortage of land!

-Sasha- · May 3, 2019

There are plenty of vacant houses anyway because of foreclosures, many of which fall into disrepair to the point of needing to be demolished because no one continues looking after them after the banks evict the former tenants. Why not just make use of these somehow instead of building new ones?

OldWiseGuy · May 3, 2019

-Sasha- said:
There are plenty of vacant houses anyway because of foreclosures, many of which fall into disrepair to the point of needing to be demolished because no one continues looking after them after the banks evict the former tenants. Why not just make use of these somehow instead of building new ones?

It's often cheaper to build new ones. If the city buys a foreclosure they should revamp it and "flip" it at fair market value. They could then use any profit for new affordable housing.

RichardY · May 3, 2019

@OldWiseGuy
There's a lot of 3/4 abandoned Mining towns across the mid-west, due to the price of Gold being fixed.

If the church hadn't taken their 30 pieces of silver from the state, at least in Europe. I can't see why social programs should be expensive and heavily bureaucratic.

Affordable housing is like musical chairs, or kicking the can down the road. If the local amenities are not sustainable, what's the point. Plenty of abandoned suburban houses in Detroit, where people couldn't afford the property tax(rent seeking) after the plants closed. People are way too corrupt, for a planned economy to work for long. Even if there's some economy of scale benefit, population growth, would also have to be controlled.

OldWiseGuy · May 3, 2019

RichardY said:
@OldWiseGuy
There's a lot of 3/4 abandoned Mining towns across the mid-west, due to the price of Gold being fixed.

If the church hadn't taken their 30 pieces of silver from the state, at least in Europe. I can't see why social programs should be expensive and heavily bureaucratic.

Affordable housing is like musical chairs, or kicking the can down the road. If the local amenities are not sustainable, what's the point. Plenty of abandoned suburban houses in Detroit, where people couldn't afford the property tax(rent seeking) after the plants closed. People are way too corrupt, for a planned economy to work for long. Even if there's some economy of scale benefit, population growth, would also have to be controlled.

My great uncle and aunt moved to a small town to escape the high cost of living in a larger city. We visited them in the summer and I had the time of my life there as a boy. Great place to retire; peaceful, quiet, inexpensive.

RichardY · May 3, 2019

@OldWiseGuy

The community and family aspect.

OldWiseGuy · May 3, 2019

RichardY said:
@OldWiseGuy

The community and family aspect.

First things first. At age 22 my life was pretty screwed up, so I joined the army to get away from my community, family and friends. Best thing I could have done.

blackribbon · May 7, 2019

What is affordable housing? Most affordable housing is really subsidized housing. Basic homes and apartments exist but the cost of utilities is universally the same...the difference is only in the use of these. There are also areas of the country where the cost of living is affordable and each housing dollar goes further.

I have always been able to find "affordable" housing. I am currently living in a more expensive town but a search found homes that were cheaper than the average home. I sacrificed central air and lower end details for my current rental. To me, the neighborhood was the most important detail. I found other "more affordable" options in other neighborhoods and in other smaller houses. I have always been able to find cheap options.

Abandon houses are not a cheap source of housing. To bring them up to safe living conditions is often more expensive than building new. Remodeling is expensive... with outdated plumbing, electrical wiring, roofing, foundations repairs, etc being the most expensive part of remodeling.

The best way to get affordable housing is to get roommates and share the expenses of a single dwelling.

blackribbon · May 7, 2019

RichardY said:
@OldWiseGuy
There's a lot of 3/4 abandoned Mining towns across the mid-west, due to the price of Gold being fixed.

If the church hadn't taken their 30 pieces of silver from the state, at least in Europe. I can't see why social programs should be expensive and heavily bureaucratic.

Affordable housing is like musical chairs, or kicking the can down the road. If the local amenities are not sustainable, what's the point. Plenty of abandoned suburban houses in Detroit, where people couldn't afford the property tax(rent seeking) after the plants closed. People are way too corrupt, for a planned economy to work for long. Even if there's some economy of scale benefit, population growth, would also have to be controlled.

Those abandoned suburban houses are not plentiful in suburban Detroit anymore. The economy is back and those homes have been remodeled and flipped for the expected prices for those neighborhoods. Empty homes are rare except in Detroit itself...and even in Detroit, there are people investing and bringing back many of the deserted historical homes by focusing on revitalizing whole neighborhoods at one time. Even at the worse, the "cheap homes" needed a lot of TLC and money to save them from neglect that came from the bad economic years.

blackribbon · May 7, 2019

-Sasha- said:
There are plenty of vacant houses anyway because of foreclosures, many of which fall into disrepair to the point of needing to be demolished because no one continues looking after them after the banks evict the former tenants. Why not just make use of these somehow instead of building new ones?

First, they are private property. We don't take away private property from people without due process. Second, like you said, they are in disrepair and not safe for people to live in.

-Sasha- · May 7, 2019

blackribbon said:
First, they are private property. We don't take away private property from people without due process. Second, like you said, they are in disrepair and not safe for people to live in.

What I actually said is they fall into disrepair. Because no one is living there. And the banks which now own them don't care to maintain them. Nor did I mention taking away anyones private property. My point was, why should the government build new housing rather than purchasing existing empty homes (which have been foreclosed on and are now in the ownership of the banks) for very low prices (usually end up at auction) before they fall into such disrepair that they need to be demolished. Many times the major damage to them is mold, which usually occurs because the sump pumps aren't operational...because no one is living there and keeping the electricity on. The banks don't want to pay to keep the power on once they take over ownership of the homes, which makes sense...except then the houses end up in such a state that the banks can't resell them to make any money back.

essentialsaltes · May 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Should the government contract to build affordable housing instead of badgering, or requiring, builders to....

How about, in addition to?

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
How about, in addition to?

I'm not in favor of forcing affordable housing into neighborhoods that don't want it.

essentialsaltes · May 7, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
I'm not in favor of forcing affordable housing into neighborhoods that don't want it.

Well, zoning laws are often very local affairs, so the neighborhoods that don't want it can see to that through the democratic process.

Besides if my butler is late from having to ride the bus just one more time...

OldWiseGuy · May 7, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Well, zoning laws are often very local affairs, so the neighborhoods that don't want it can see to that through the democratic process.

Such 'town meetings' are well attended, believe me.

Should the government build affordable housing?

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