Christians should be more unified against abortion.

usexpat97 · May 3, 2019

What are you looking for Biblical support of?

That it is "of course wrong". That human beings are full-fledged human beings right from conception, and that they develop about 25 years. I thought I was pretty clear.

Scripture says human beings live 120 years. Which has me scratching my head, since that means my grandparents lied about their birthdays; since when they died, they certainly were not 120, according to their birthdays. So I'm fascinated by this Scripture you have which so clearly says that human beings start as full human beings at conception and develop for 25 years. So clear, in fact, that you can impress that belief of yours on everyone else.

Albion · May 3, 2019

I don't think we can consider unborn humans to be carcasses intended for occupancy at some later date.

RaymondG · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
I don't think we can consider unborn humans to be carcasses intended for occupancy at some later date.

How much value do you put in your flesh? I posted the value of mine and no one elses.

Albion · May 3, 2019

This is what I had replied to, Raymond, so you can see how I am uncertain what you are saying in your follow-up post--

RaymondG said:
Are you 100% certain that a few bodies that I was destined for weren't discarded before I settled in the one Im in now?

Am I to believe that your flesh or body is significantly different from the flesh of everyone else?

Tropical Wilds · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
Ah, so that is the determiner? If it is legal.

But all sorts of things in our society are legal and yet all manner of people are outraged at the fact and consider them to be outrageous, immoral, unfair, or something like that. That doesn't mean that you would care about them yourself, of course.

I can’t help but feel like you’re actively trying to not get the point so as to not have your viewpoint challenged.

SPF · May 3, 2019

usexpat97 said:
That it is "of course wrong". That human beings are full-fledged human beings right from conception, and that they develop about 25 years. I thought I was pretty clear.

Scripture doesn't say that it takes 25 years for a human being to develop. That doesn't of course mean that it doesn't take 25 years for a human being to develop. I trust that you are aware that a child looks different and is less developed than a teenager, right? You do realize that teenager looks different and is less developed than an adult right? I find it hard to believe that you doubt that we can know how long it takes for a human being to fully develop.

With regards to "full-fledged human beings right from conception", I have to ask - what else would we be? We know scientifically that a new human being comes into existence at fertilization. We know that it takes about 25 years for a human being to fully develop. Are you suggesting that at some points of our development we somehow aren't actually human beings? What else would we be?

usexpat97 said:
Scripture says human beings live 120 years

No it doesn't.

So where do you stand on the OP? Do you agree or disagree with the argument? If you disagree, can you provide support for a differing position?

Albion · May 3, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
I can’t help but feel like you’re actively trying to not get the point so as to not have your viewpoint challenged.

Nope. I put it out there in a pretty straightforward, easy to handle form.

I am also willing to hear any reply so long as it addresses the issue. Is it the case that if anything happens to someone else-or is done by someone else--it is not your (our) business, no matter what it is, so long as it is legal? Very few people, I suspect, could honestly answer in the positive, but that isn't to say that no one can.

Incidentally, many of the truly unthinkable horrors of modern times were done legally, yet most people cannot excuse them because of that fact.

MournfulWatcher · May 3, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
I can’t help but feel like you’re actively trying to not get the point so as to not have your viewpoint challenged.

A drive-by shooting takes the life of a human being. It is immoral to take the life of a human being. Therefore it is illegal.

Abortion also takes the life of a human being. It is immoral to take the life of a human being. Therefore it should also be illegal. Is the unborn child a living human or not?

Tropical Wilds · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
Nope. I put it out there in a pretty straightforward, easy to handle form.

Yes, I saw you neatly ignored the entire point of what I said in order to project onto me something I didn’t say. I appreciate and sympathize with that version being easier for you to handle and understand, I get it, it’s a complex issue for some. But when you do that you are actually having a discussion with yourself over what you project on to me, vs actually a discussion with me and what I actually say and believe.

I am also willing to hear any reply so long as it addresses the issue.

I think what I posted already and you ignored will suffice.

RaymondG · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
This is what I had replied to, Raymond, so you can see how I am uncertain what you are saying in your follow-up post--

I knew what you were responding to and thought my question was valid.

Albion said:
Am I to believe that your flesh or body is significantly different from the flesh of everyone else?

I try to only speak for myself and do not look for wrong is those who may have beliefs different from my own....it is possible that what is true for one is not true for all....

Albion said:
I don't think we can consider unborn humans to be carcasses intended for occupancy at some later date.

I'll try again.....this statement seems to link a person to the flesh......my statement links them to the spirit and not the flesh. If one becomes and remains their flesh...they will die with it.......He who seeks to save his life shall lose it....

Albion · May 3, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
Yes, I saw you neatly ignored the entire point of what I said in order to project onto me something I didn’t say. I appreciate and sympathize with that version being easier for you to handle and understand, I get it, it’s a complex issue for some. But when you do that you are actually having a discussion with yourself over what you project on to me, vs actually a discussion with me and what I actually say and believe.

Zzzzz. Please just answer the question.

What you posted raised a question about consistency. That's all there was to that.

timothyu · May 3, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
A drive-by shooting takes the life of a human being. It is immoral to take the life of a human being. Therefore it is illegal.

Does a drive by take a life or more accurately, destroys the vehicle/temple of the life within? Is not an unborn that same vehicle/temple? Why is destroying the mechanics of one called murder, while the other is not? Same process, same effect. Vehicle/temple destroyed and made uninhabitable or functional.

Albion · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
Am I to believe that your flesh or body is significantly different from the flesh of everyone else?

RaymondG said:
I try to only speak for myself and do not look for wrong is those who may have beliefs different from my own....it is possible that what is true for one is not true for all....

Is that a "yes," then?

I'll try again.....this statement seems to link a person to the flesh......my statement links them to the spirit and not the flesh. If one becomes and remains their flesh...they will die with it.......He who seeks to save his life shall lose it....

I appreciate it, but does that have something to do with abortions?

MournfulWatcher · May 3, 2019

timothyu said:
Does a drive by take a life or more accurately, destroys the vehicle/temple of the life within? Is not an unborn that same vehicle/temple? Why is destroying the mechanics of one called murder, while the other is not? Same process, same effect. Vehicle/temple destroyed and made uninhabitable or functional.

Yep. It's tragic that the unborn isn't seen as a human life like the person killed in a drive by shooting is.

timothyu · May 3, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
Yep. It's tragic that the unborn isn't seen as a human life like the person killed in a drive by shooting is.

I know what you are saying but I suggest it is the vehicle for a human life that is destroyed in either case, no longer making that vehicle habitable... so if one is murder, why is not the other.

RaymondG · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
Is that a "yes," then?

Yes everyone is different and on different paths of their spiritual journeys.....Which is why I would not limit your choices to what I believe.

Albion said:
I appreciate it, but does that have something to do with abortions?

Good question.....did your statement have anything to do with Abortion? If not, then I guess my reply to it, doesn't as well.

RaymondG · May 3, 2019

timothyu said:
I know what you are saying but I suggest it is the vehicle for a human life that is destroyed in either case, no longer making that vehicle habitable... so if one is murder, why is not the other.

Would you say that a vehicle driven by an adult, which crashes killing the adult within.........is the same as the vehicle that is dropped and destroyed in the shop with no one in it?

E.G. does God place the adult in the car during it's manufacturing process......Or after it leaving the manufacturing facility?

SPF · May 3, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
I think what I posted already and you ignored will suffice.

I can't help but notice you too like to ignore what people say. I'm referencing your lack of response to Reply #97.

Albion · May 3, 2019

RaymondG said:
Good question.....did your statement have anything to do with Abortion? If not, then I guess my reply to it, doesn't as well.

Mine absolutely did. It certainly is not true that a fetus is not human. The following, however, seemed to say something else, which is why I asked for more information.

RaymondG said:
Are you 100% certain that a few bodies that I was destined for weren't discarded before I settled in the one Im in now?

RaymondG · May 3, 2019

Albion said:
Mine absolutely did. It certainly is not true that a fetus is not human. The following, however, seemed to say something else, which is why I asked for more information.

I see,.....then it is good that you asked questions and received clarification.

Christians should be more unified against abortion.

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