- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,608
- 7,373
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Ok so 2000 years ago the apostles wrote that the second coming and God’s wrath upon the earth is about to happen has it happened yet?
Upvote
0
MELLO (#3195) - The Dangerous Greek Word That Has Been Removed From Most English Translations
- Thread starter random person
- Start date
Ok so 2000 years ago the apostles wrote that the second coming and God’s wrath upon the earth is about to happen has it happened yet?
claninja
Well-Known Member
Correct, they did.
Peter believed they were living in the last days and that end was near
Acts 2:16-17 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so that you can pray
Paul believed they were living at the end of the ages
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
John believed it was the last hour
1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour
James believed the coming of the Lord was near
James 5:8-9 You too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door.
Is the temple still standing in Jerusalem?
Mark 13:4 Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?”
Upvote
0
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,608
- 7,373
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
So what about the end time prophecies? Where do you think we are on the prophetic clock?
Upvote
0
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.
Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Rev 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
.
Upvote
0
Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
It is articulated in Preterist Facebook groups. I am a member of many Preterist Facebook groups. Full Preterists do not like the term "ongoing fulfillment" because it shows an inherent contradiction. They say that ALL prophecy was fulfilled by AD70. So they use the phrase "ongoing results" instead. But ongoing results IS ongoing fulfillment.
Facebook groups:
Christian Preterist Perspectives Discussion and Debate
World Preterism
Preterism Full or Partial
Full Preterism A Thing of the Past
Israel Only Terminus 1
Israel Only Terminus 2
Actually Wikipedia defines Full Preterism an eschatological view that interprets ALL prophecies of the Bible as events that have already happened.
Upvote
0
What do you believe was about to [mello] end? What were the prophets AND the law all pointing to? What was no longer necessary because of Jesus' first advent and resurrection?
We KNOW the following has occurred - right? Even the tense it's written in is present tense.
Christ Is the Perfect Sacrifice - Hebrews 9
11 So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world. 12 With his own blood—not the blood of goats and calves—he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.13 Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer could cleanse people’s bodies from ceremonial impurity. 14 Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our consciences from sinful deeds so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. 15 That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.
16 Now when someone leaves a will, it is necessary to prove that the person who made it is dead. 17 The will [or testament] goes into effect only after the person’s death. While the person who made it is still alive, the will cannot be put into effect.
16 Now when someone leaves a will, it is necessary to prove that the person who made it is dead. 17 The will [or testament] goes into effect only after the person’s death. While the person who made it is still alive, the will cannot be put into effect.
18 That is why even the first covenant was put into effect with the blood of an animal. 19 For after Moses had read each of God’s commandments to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, along with water, and sprinkled both the book of God’s law and all the people, using hyssop branches and scarlet wool. 20 Then he said, “This blood confirms the covenant God has made with you.” 21 And in the same way, he sprinkled blood on the Tabernacle and on everything used for worship.22 In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.
23 That is why the Tabernacle and everything in it, which were copies of things in heaven, had to be purified by the blood of animals. But the real things in heaven had to be purified with far better sacrifices than the blood of animals.
24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. 25 And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. 26 If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice.
27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, 28 so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
*********************23 That is why the Tabernacle and everything in it, which were copies of things in heaven, had to be purified by the blood of animals. But the real things in heaven had to be purified with far better sacrifices than the blood of animals.
24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. 25 And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. 26 If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice.
27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, 28 so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
Notice the "end of the age" in v. 26? In my belief, that's the end of the Old Covenant age - the end of the Temple religious system with Levitical priests/animal sacrifices/restrictions on who may enter into God's presence, etc. THAT is what was "about to" come to an end in the days that the NT was authored (and, as Claninja asked, is the Temple still there?).
It's believed that the book of Hebrews was written in 63 A.D. (prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.)
Hebrews 8:13 ~ When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
claninja
Well-Known Member
Which ones?
I believe the Body of Christ = the New Jerusalem = the Ezekiel temple
1.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are the Bride of the lamb
Revelation 20:9-10 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,
Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
2.)Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are built on the foundations of the prophets
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone
3.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are where God dwells with his people.
Revelation 21:3 Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God
Ephesians 2:21 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
4.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Ezekiel temple having water flowing from them
Revelation 22:1-2 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city.
Ezekiel 47:1-2 Then he brought me back to the door of the temple, and behold, water was issuing from below the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east). The water was flowing down from below the south end of the threshold of the temple, south of the altar
5.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Ezekiel temple have trees growing on either side of the river producing fruit every month and have leaves for healing
Ezekiel 47:12 And on the banks, on both sides of the river, there will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither, nor their fruit fail, but they will bear fresh fruit every month, because the water for them flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for healing.”
Revelation 22:2 On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
6.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Ezekiel temple are where God's throne is
Revelation 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him
Ezekiel 43:6-7 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple, and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.
7.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Jerusalem of the Ezekiel temple have 12 gates (3 on each side) with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Revelation 21:12-13 The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west.
Ezekiel 48:33-35 These will be the exits of the city: Beginning on the north side, which measures 4,500 cubits long, the gates of the city will be named after the tribes of Israel. On the north side there will be three gates: the gate of Reuben, the gate of Judah, and the gate of Levi.
On the east side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Joseph, the gate of Benjamin, and the gate of Dan. On the south side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Simeon, the gate of Issachar, and the gate of Zebulun. And on the west side, which will be 4,500 cubits long, there will be three gates: the gate of Gad, the gate of Asher, and the gate of Naphtali. The perimeter of the city will be 18,000 cubitsh , and the name of the city from that day on will be: THE LORD IS THERE.”
I believe the Body of Christ = New Jerusalem = Ezekiel temple. This is the place of His throne and the place for the soles of His feet. This is where believers dwell with God, whether they are on earth (his footstool) or heaven (his throne).
Ezekiel 43:7 and He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place for the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the Israelites forever.
Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool;
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Upvote
0
The Apostle Paul said New Jerusalem is above, instead of on earth, in the following passage.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
The author of the Book of Hebrews said the city is in heaven, instead of on earth, in the passage below.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
.
Upvote
0
Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
Hello P70,
I have a quote for you from a Full Preterist author. His name is Charles Meek. He says that ALL biblical prophecy was fulfilled by AD70. On facebook he wrote:
We preterists argue that our views are completely consistent with Jesus and his disciples. That is, the ideas which are represented by preterists were the views of the New Testament writers themselves, who expected the fulfillment of all biblical prophecy to take place in their generation.
Christian Preterist Perspectives Discussion & Debate
Upvote
0
If the Dispensationalists have gone into the ditch on one side of the road of Bible prophecy(which I believe they have), then the Full-Preterists have gone into the ditch on the other side of the road, through the guard rail, and off the cliff into thin air...
.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- May 19, 2015
- 125,492
- 28,588
- 73
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Josephus agrees with thee..........
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance. Many eminent and learned men have employed their pens in the illustration of it.............
The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.
Thus terminated the glory and existence of this sacred and venerable Edifice, which from its stupendous size, its massy solidity, and astonishing strength, seemed formed to resist the most violent operations of human force, and to stand, like the pyramids, amid the shocks of successive ages, until the final dissolution of the globe. [12]
Upvote
0
Similar threads
