Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Can the church survive without God's word?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 17 43.6%
  • No.

    Votes: 22 56.4%

  • Total voters
    39

FenderTL5

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I never said I was. That is your false accusation.
We are told to preach the Word (See 2 Timothy 4:2).
You did equate your opinion as being "the foolishness of God.." There was no scripture passage in that post, and I would further suggest that there are no passages in scripture that says we eventually all have "Jewish" bodies. That may be your opinion based on your understanding of scripture, but that is not stated in scripture. I may even argue that is counter to scripture on the basis that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek.
Even here, "Preaching the Word," is preaching Jesus Christ, not your opinion(s).
When you elevate your opinion to being that of God, and your opinion to being the Word, you are on shaky ground.
 
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RDKirk

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It boggles my mind that anyone can even believe that statement.
Yes, there is the Living Word (Jesus), but there is also the communicated Word of God, as well. For what on Earth are the Scriptures if they are not the communicated Word of God? What on Earth is the sword of the Spirit? Did not Jesus says his words are spirit and they are life? Did not Jesus and His followers quote Scripture as an authority many times? Why would they do this if they are not the words of God? Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Is that just some voice in your head? I tend to believe this to be the Bible.

So then, the only thing Satan (or any human dictator) need do is eradicate bibles. That physical act will eliminate the Body of Christ?
 
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Agreed. And problems arise when people equate their interpretation with "the holy spirit speaking to me".

That does not undo that the Scriptures themselves are created by the Holy Spirit. A person's carnal misunderstanding does not mean that there is not a correct understanding. It does not mean that they cannot understand the Scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, either. We see this happen in 1 John 2:27. Men had an anointing (of the Spirit) whereby they did not need any man to teach them. But today, we have churches saying you cannot understand the Bible without their special instruction.
 
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A Realist

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You did equate your opinion as being "the foolishness of God.." There was no scripture passage in that post, and I would further suggest that there are no passages in scripture that says we eventually all have "Jewish" bodies. That may be your opinion based on your understanding of scripture, but that is not stated in scripture. I may even argue that is counter to scripture on the basis that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek.
Even here, "Preaching the Word," is preaching Jesus Christ, not your opinion(s).
When you elevate your opinion to being that of God, and your opinion to being the Word, you are on shaky ground.
Some folks seem to think their opinions are equal to God's.
 
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You did equate your opinion as being "the foolishness of God.." There was no scripture passage in that post, and I would further suggest that there are no passages in scripture that says we eventually all have "Jewish" bodies.

First, you did not refer to just that post alone. You simply referred generically to the nonsense of what I said in general to Mary and you did not mention a specific post. So I took that as all things I have said to Mary within this thread (Which would have included Scripture). Second, even if it was in reference to that post alone, it is not incorrect for me to loosely quote Scripture in my own words and not give an exact verse number, etc. For example: If I said "God so loved the world," and a new Christian did not understand that this is taken from a famous verse in the Bible, it would not be my fault that they do not know the Scriptural reference.

Anyways, Paul's whole point in 1 Corinthians 15 is to refute the idea of those who denied a bodily resurrection. Paul brings up the gospel (which includes Christ's resurrection).

Paul equates the bodily resurrection with Christ's resurrection.

"But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:" (1 Corinthians 15:13).​

There will be a resurrection of the dead for believers.

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6).​

We are told in Scripture that our vile body will be fashioned like unto his glorious body.

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:21).​

Jesus is clearly a Jew based on the listings of his genealogy, and His own statements, and by the statements made by others. Jesus even admitted He was the King of the Jews.

"Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."" (Matthew 27:11).​

Jesus still had flesh (like his disciples had) after His resurrection.

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).​

So taking all of these facts into account within Scripture, we will be resurrected because of Christ's resurrection and we will have the same glorious body He has and Jesus is a Jew. It's pretty simple to connect the dots in Scripture (if you are willing to see it).

You said:
That may be your opinion based on your understanding of scripture, but that is not stated in scripture. I may even argue that is counter to scripture on the basis that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek.

This is speaking on a spiritual level. Christ dwells in all believer's hearts by faith. Christ is also God and God is spirit. The spirit portion of Christ (Who is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity) is neither Jew or Gentile and we are all united together by the Living Word or the Son of God.

You said:
Even here, "Preaching the Word," is preaching Jesus Christ, not your opinion(s).
When you elevate your opinion to being that of God, and your opinion to being the Word, you are on shaky ground.

No. 2 Timothy 4:2 is in context to 2 Timothy 3:16 that says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
 
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FenderTL5

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First, you did not refer to just that post alone. You simply referred generically to the nonsense of what I said in general to Mary and you did not mention a specific post.

So I took that as all things I have said to Mary within this thread (Which would have included Scripture). Second, even if it was in reference to that post alone, it is not incorrect for me to loosely quote Scripture in my own words and not give an exact verse number, etc. For example: If I said "God so loved the world," and a new Christian did not understand that this is taken from a famous verse in the Bible, it would not be my fault that they do not know the Scriptural reference.

Anyways, Paul's whole point in 1 Corinthians 15 is to refute the idea of those who denied a bodily resurrection. Paul brings up the gospel (which includes Christ's resurrection).

Paul equates the bodily resurrection with Christ's resurrection.

"But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:" (1 Corinthians 15:13).​

There will be a resurrection of the dead for believers.

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6).​

We are told in Scripture that our vile body will be fashioned like unto his glorious body.

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:21).​

Jesus is clearly a Jew based on the listings of his genealogy, and His own statements, and by the statements made by others. Jesus even admitted He was the King of the Jews.

"Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."" (Matthew 27:11).​

Jesus still had flesh (like his disciples had) after His resurrection.

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).​

So taking all of these facts into account within Scripture, we will be resurrected because of Christ's resurrection and we will have the same glorious body He has and Jesus is a Jew. It's pretty simple to connect the dots in Scripture (if you are willing to see it).



This is speaking on a spiritual level. Christ dwells in all believer's hearts by faith. Christ is also God and God is spirit. The spirit portion of Christ (Who is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity) is neither Jew or Gentile and we are all united together by the Living Word or the Son of God.



No. 2 Timothy 4:2 is in context to 2 Timothy 3:16 that says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
Beloved, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
- Apostle John.

I presume you know more than he?
 
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So then, the only thing Satan (or any human dictator) need do is eradicate bibles. That physical act will eliminate the Body of Christ?

It's not going to happen because Jesus said His words will not pass away.
But lets say for the sake of argument that this happened. There are Christians out there who have memorized the whole Bible. So the words of the Bible, not their own imaginations have been carried on inside of them. It is still the Bible if they are able to recall words and quote it exactly as it is written. It does not stop being the Bible unless they change the words. A person can memorize other books, and they do not stop being from something that was once written (even if all those books were burned). The fact that minds can retain the information does not change the communication. The Bible can be stored on my phone digitally. Again, the information has not changed. They are still words like in a book. The same is true if they are memorized. The words have not changed. They are still words of the Bible. The question of the thread asks that if there is no Word of God, then the church would not survive. This is true. If there is no Bible put to memory by the church, or stored in a computer somewhere, etc. then the body of believers would die out. If there is no Bible in their minds or hearts or in a physical form (like a digitized version of it on a phone) or like in a physical book (Bible), then Christianity would die out. But thankfully we know that is not going to happen. Jesus said heaven and Earth will pass away, but His words will not pass away.
 
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Beloved, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
- Apostle John.

I presume you know more than he?

This is in view of the Rapture because it is referring to what we shall be like when He appears. The spiritual bodily resurrection is a mystery. For Paul even talked about how the Rapture is a mystery. The Rapture (the spiritual bodily resurrection), and the flesh and blood body type resurrection are not the same thing. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. We are also told in Scripture that we are given power to become sons of God. Sons of God are in reference to angels in the Old Testament. We are told that angels are immortal beings. This mortal must put on immortality.
 
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bekkilyn

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I love how people keep claiming to be God in these threads. :)

"...the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
(1 Corinthians 1:25).
 
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I love how people keep claiming to be God in these threads. :)

I never said I was God. Again, you be the second person here to falsely accusing me of saying that. I was merely quoting God's Word in certain places, and referring loosely to it's truths in other places.

For we are told to preach the Word (See: 2 Timothy 4:2).
 
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I love how people keep claiming to be God in these threads. :)

Have you never paraphrased a certain truth given to us in Scripture before and not provide any Scriptural references? You will be pleased to know that I did provide Scriptural references in post #502. But again, nowhere did I claim to be God. You (and another) are falsely accusing me of that. Holding to a particular belief based on the Bible (Whether it be true or not true) does not mean one is claiming to be God.

So any time you guys want to apologize would be nice.

In any event, may the Lord bless you.
 
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bekkilyn

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I never said I was God. Again, you be the second person here to falsely accusing me of saying that. I was merely quoting God's Word in certain places, and referring loosely to it's truths in other places.

For we are told to preach the Word (See: 2 Timothy 4:2).

If only it was the Word you were preaching.
 
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If only it was the Word you were preaching.

Now you are starting to sound like a Sola Scriptura Christian.
If so, congratulations. Anyways, giving a commentary or explaining the Word is not wrong. Sometimes the Bible needs to be explained to people so as to help them to understand what it says.

Even Jesus did this:

"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" (Luke 24:27).
 
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bekkilyn

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Now you are starting to sound like a Sola Scriptura Christian.
If so, congratulations. Anyways, giving a commentary or explaining the Word is not wrong. Sometimes the Bible needs to be explained to people so as to help them to understand what it says.

Even Jesus did this:

"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" (Luke 24:27).

I'm not talking about the Bible.
 
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I'm not talking about the Bible.

I am. It's the only thing I talk about. I may sometimes paraphrase a truth taught in Scripture (using many verses that you don't know about), but that does not undo that truth. Have you never argued over something in Scripture that was not clear to somebody else?
 
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Shimokita

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Can you demonstrate how this does not follow? And what is Rome's official interpretation of John 20:31?
Here's there reference from a Catholic Bible:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 ¶ but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

The Holy Bible. (2006). (Revised Standard Version; Second Catholic Edition, Jn 20:30–31). San Francisco: Ignatius Press.

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written that you may [come to] believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name.

New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Jn 20:30–31). Washington, DC: The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Can I demonstrate how what does not follow? Not sure if you have been following the convo that my statement relates to.

I think it is pretty amusing when people ask for "Rome's official interprepretation of this or that passage." Very amusing indeed.
 
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Shimokita

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"Faith + obedience to the Roman magisterium"... that's what you seem to be insinuating. That's a weaker Biblical case than merely saying that the Bible has sufficient information for a person to come to saving knowledge of Christ.
Friend, I didn't write anything about "Faith plus obedience to the Roman magisterium." You are making things up out of thin air. I don't have any problem with your statement that "the Bible has sufficient information for a person to come to saving knowledge of Christ" (with the caveat that no amount of knowledge by itself is sufficient) but this is not what you originally wrote, and this is not what I stated was unproven. Please go back and read your initial statement if you do not remember what you wrote.
 
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The Word of God Himself is a living entity, not words or text. There would be nothing in the creation without Him (the Word of God.)

This is simply not true. While Jesus is the Living Word, that does not mean that there is not a communicated Word of God. A basic reading of the Bible should inform a person of this fact. 2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God. So if the Bible is Scripture, and Scripture is inspired by God, then that means the Bible are the words of God.

Do folks here ignore the word "holy" on the cover of their Bible?
 
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