Dating and Sex

Tropical Wilds · May 2, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
Oh, I think I have all 3 for sure, but better exercise than alcohol or drugs imo.

I know you have all three. And let me tell you, drugs and alcohol are hard addictions to beat... But you beat them by not doing them anymore and getting help to avoid them and the people who supply them. When you are ready, you rejoin your life on your terms with a carefully cultivated environment you control.

Food? Exercise? Your body? You can't escape those. Every meal, every trip to the gym, every time you stand in front of the mirror, there is an opportunity to relapse. You can't go without food or exercise until you feel ready to face a world of never doing it again... You are forever reliant on your addiction and have to try to make peace with it instantly, going from destructive to moderation overnight.

So alcohol and drugs may be a worse addiction to have in the sense that you're one OD away from dying, but food, body image, and exercise is just as hard (and in many ways harder). You get help, then a few hours later you are immediately tested and expected to face your trigger. And, given enough time, those things will kill you too... Just not quickly.

I've never been fully satisfied with how I look. It's very depressing to me to know I'll never have the ripped physique that's so popular among instagram etc. Yes, I know a lot of those guys are on steroids, and I know a lot of it is photo shopped, but I've personally seen natural guys get pretty good physiques and mine would be if I hadn't been obese for 20 years.

I think a lot of the reason I hated being fat so much was because it was the source of CONSTANT bullying, and rejection when I was in high school that crippled my social skills going into college also, I basically became a hermit after high school because of it.

Friend, I'm very, very confident that you will find that by being brave enough to get help with these issues from a person who ACTUALLY knows what they're doing, you will find that you are closer to a lot of inner and outer peace than you know. Like I said, you can't expect yourself to have a good, trusting relationship if you don't even have that with yourself.

Tropical Wilds · May 2, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
Well, at least all the women here can agree on one thing. That my profile sucks, and apparently I'm terrible at selling myself, along with being unattractive in my interests. !

It's not that your interests are unattractive, it's that how they're presented is unattractive.

Saying something like "I enjoy an active lifestyle and weight training, but I also enjoy quiet evenings at home. I'd love to find a partner to join me, whether it be kickboxing or a yoga class or even a nice hike on my favorite trail, who also enjoys staying in and enjoying a nice meal and a little "Big Brother" or "Top Chef." Bad reality TV and good wine is my favorite guilty pleasure." comes of waaaaaay better than you have now.

I get you're trying to share you're a hard working guy with a good job and an interests in pop culture and fitness. You unintentionally present it in a way where you come off as a meathead with the depth of a mud puddle and with a major superiority/Yuppie attitude.

Tropical Wilds · May 2, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
For instance, recently my wife somehow divulged to me that she thought (and had always thought) that the moon 'glowed,' that it somehow absorbed the sun's rays and radiated out the energy at night, much in the way that phosphorescent vampire teeth do. I had to role my eyes; so did my son. Then, I had to convince her that---no---the light we see from the moon is not its own, but that it comes from the sun and 'bounces' off the lunar surface. Eventually, she came around to understand my point of view, and I rolled my eyes again---and I did all of this without argument or pressuring her or implying that she's somehow stupid [...which she couldn't be anyway because, surprisingly, she got A's in college Calculus and Physics [yet somehow thought the moon glowed] Anyway, whatever!

My husband, who is an incredibly perceptive and intelligent man, used to think sea glass was naturally occurring. He thought it was a shell or broken off a reef. When I found a huge chunk that was obviously an old Coke bottle, he asked me why I was keeping "garbage." I looked at him kind of dumbstruck and said "... Because finding a chunk of sea glass this huge and distinctive is a really amazing find...?" I literally watched as he tried to process this, then he said "So it's not from nature? Sea glass is... Trash...? We have been picking up garbage all these years?? That stained glass you made with sea glass was really a window made with TRASH?" He was completely incredulous. I was completely stunned that for all these years he just thought nature made sea glass. ^_^

Meanwhile, one day I told him I wanted to eat at our local pub because I was craving some of their amazing dipping sauce. My husband loves to cook and so do I, so he was kind of surprised to hear they had a sauce that I liked that I couldn't recreate at home. So he asked me, what sauce? I said that brown dipping sauce they serve with the Scotch Eggs. The mustard sauce? Nope, I said, the other one. The brown one. He looks at me and says "The A1 Sauce?" I insisted, no, it was the house sauce. Turns out, it is A1. I had gone 20+ years craving a sauce that I thought was a house sauce but was really A1. For my birthday, he got me a bottle and crossed out the A1 and wrote "secret magic sauce." :doh:

Point is, we are all smart people who say and do really dumb things sometimes. When you're with somebody as long and as frequently as your spouse, you're going to say and do dumb things in front of each other.

com7fy8 · May 2, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire.

How we are can effect how we understand this.

I now do not think Paul means that if you are going crazy just because of what a number of women look like, that this means you need to get married to one.

I consider he means if a couple have realized they belong with each other, now they test if they are called to have children, or be a Christian celibate covenant consenting compassionate correctional custody companionship. And if God does not grant them self control . . . in relation with each other . . . let them marry.

But they have already found out how the real pleasure and intimacy is in God's love, with each other and with every other child of God who is growing and maturing in this one love all together as His family. They are brother and sister, already, valuing and treasuring this. So, this will grow stronger even if they don't marry.

So, I would say we need to keep discovering our family intimacy with Jesus and one another. And make sure this has been growing with someone, before we consider getting married. Or else, we could be going by lust which is not what I think Paul means by desire. Because we need to crucify the flesh with its lusts >

1 Thessalonians 4:5

Endeavourer · May 2, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
Well, at least all the women here can agree on one thing. That my profile sucks, and apparently I'm terrible at selling myself, along with being unattractive in my interests. !

Your interests are attractive. You're just listing the wrong ones. Think of what interests you might have that a woman might also enjoy. Your profile should point to things you have in common that you might want to explore together... not be just a bunch of legalese. It almost read like a disclaimer rather than an invitation. So I'm not tring to hammer you about your profile anymore... this comment is just to to paint the contrast of the ditch you are in with your thinking vs the road up there, out of the ditch, that goes somewhere.

Way up in this thread a ways there was this guy talking about volunteering to help women who find themselves in a situation so dire they are considering having an abortion. Having a heart to help people who are at perhaps the lowest and most desperate point of their lives? That's a very attractive interest. You could learn a little from him. ;-)

Endeavourer · May 2, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
Then you write one for me lol, cause that's me...

I saw someone else started a rough draft of a suggestion for you. Tomorrow I'll look at theirs and see what I might add to it. Maybe all together we can get something written up for you.

sea5763 · May 2, 2019

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I wouldn't want to leave her like that. I've seen my grandmother alone for the last 10 years and it's been so hard on her.
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with my adorable cat Beast, I've sacrificed a lot to take care of my brother and his wife financially, and I visit my parents every weekend. I call my parents almost daily and they couldn't be more proud of me,
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Again, I personally would spend most of my Saturday and Sunday with a woman
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I am an absolute beast, I'll be the first one in line of danger no issue there at all, I know how to handle myself and have no problems with that. There's not a lot of "yuck" situations I have to deal with in my current life, aside from some cat accidents, or spiders (which I viciously destroy because I think they're just evil lol), but I'd handle that too...
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I moved my entire apartment by myself in the rain, I'm not afraid to do hard work and my moto might as well be perseverance.

For your dating profile here's my 2 cents. Anyone else can feel free to comment as well. I think you could say something along the lines of:

I am looking for someone to spend the rest of my life with. I'm a Christian and looking for a fellow Christian. I love my adorable cat Beast, my parents, and my brother and sister in law. I take good care of my cat. I also love my brother, and his wife who is my sister in law, and help them too when they need me. I am often busy with my job as a Process Manager, as I am a hard worker, but I would like to spend most of my weekends with a partner. I have never been married and have no kids, but I am open to the possibility of having children in the future.

Here are some of my hobbies. I enjoy doing jiu jitsu and staying fit. I like watching documentaries and Harry Potter. I play video games for fun too. I don't drink or do drugs. I like to talk about and learn more about psychology and theology. If you like my profile feel free to send me a message.

exitstageright · May 2, 2019

Endeavourer said:
Great stuff. Get her to BELIEVE it of you. Make a point to get into situations where you can demonstrate this so she can experience it.

Thank you. I'm definitely not the type of feminist the media portrays whatsoever. I think many of that generation are being manipulated and brainwashed and don't realize it. To me feminism means seeing both genders as having equal value and worth, which probably also describes 80% of the US population.

I know we are both kind of caricaturing this concept, but if you can demonstrate how you value her it will help put her mind to ease on how you will participate in the household, if you will assign gender roles and what are the roles of your preference.

My marriage is very even handed in decisions (and after my previous experience it had to be or else I would have bolted) but we do have differences in our marriage based on gender. My husband is the one to strap the "protection" on his waist if we're taking a hike in the wilderness. He has a strong masculine (attractive!!) protective nature to him. He views himself as first in line to any danger - and has proven that. He steps up to the tasks requiring more strength, and to the yuckier tasks. He treats me like his queen to love and protect. What woman would not appreciate his interpretation of gender roles???

Longer dates - like our 14 hour ones....lol - will showcase this part of your personality more quickly than the typical dinner/movie type of dates. The dates for the purpose of showcasing this and falling in love with each other quicker should be at least 4 hours long and should not include activities that don't use interaction (i.e. movies or TV). They should be interactive. The reason for the longer dates is that it necessarily gets you past the weather superficiality and into the types of conversations you are longing for. When she's drawn into your intellect and compassion she'll feel safer to move quicker.

A woman is usually willing to have sex if she is emotionally close to a person and has the prospect of experiencing pleasure. We don't have testosterone, so on average our sexual drive is HIGHLY dependent upon our husband's sweetness (or not sweetness) prior to the opportunity for sex. For the average woman, you have more control over her desire for sex than she does. (There are always exceptions of course.)

Here's a great article that describes the concept of longer dates, how they stoke a wife's love for her husband and how they often lead to sex:

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he...

So you would follow this pattern before marriage (without the sex of course), and focus on making deposits in her love bank during your dates.

On the subject of testosterone, women do have testosterone. However,the average male has about 10 times the testosterone that the average female has. Testosterone,is the hormone that is responsible for lust, and/or sexual desire. Where do women get their share of testosterone? They get it from their fathers. The same way that men get estrogen from their mothers.
I do not mean yo offend you. But, as a Clinical (Medical) Laboratory Scientist,I could not just let that comment just go .(We (women) do not have testosterone) Yes, some women do have higher testosterone levels than some men have.

sea5763 · May 2, 2019

Also in your dating profile include the picture of you with your cat. You look the happiest in that picture

FireDragon76 · May 2, 2019

RDKirk said:
Nobody has "genuine expertise" with relationships in the same way a neurosurgeon will have "genuine expertise" with spinal cords or an auto mechanic will have "genuine expertise" with automobiles.

Relationships are unique and vastly so, and unlike cars and spinal cords, everyone lies about their relationships.

But in my experience, some forms of religion can create unnecessary obstacles to people in becoming mature and satisfied human beings in that area. After all, many Christians that dot our history were literally so afraid of intimate sexual relationships that they saw celibacy as the only option. And we are deeply influenced by that logic, still, in our Christian religious communities.

Have you read William Blake's poem, The Garden of Love? Or perhaps check out Rowan William's essay, The Body's Grace, some time. Both speak to the weakness of traditional Christian understandings of desire and eros.

Brian Mcnamee · May 2, 2019

Endeavourer said:
I have two cautions about the courting approach:

a) You lean towards the mindset of a "buyer" from the outset, so it can blind you to incompatibilities, and

b) Some courting ideologues and/or methods do not allow enough contact between the parties prior to the marriage so you end up marrying someone that you don't really know very well. The process is designed to hide the real person inside of you from each other, and then you just get what you get when the wedding is all over.

so its the same as dating lol

derpytia · May 2, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
So, the bible is pretty clear when it comes to pre-marital sex. It's a sin. Why, that can be debated, but that's not something I want to do. I personally don't have an issue with the idea of abstinence until marriage, there's a pretty good amount of non-biblical proof to support it anyway.

My issue is simple... I think the western, modern church, has failed singles.

Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire. However, in that day, a man such as myself, could literally buy a wife. I make very good money.

My issue is, people in general, especially women (it seems to me) want to date for long extended periods of time before they're even willing to consider marriage.

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

To be honest, dating and such isn't all rainbows and sunshine for us ladies either. I myself have chosen to just stay single for a good long time after my experiences with dating men (and most of them were good friends with me before dating which just made everything worse).

My advice: Don't go looking for a woman to date/marry just because you want to have righteous sex as soon as possible. We are no glorified sex objects for men to merely lust after. If sex is the only thing you can think of then it sounds like you need therapy more than you need a wife.

RDKirk · May 3, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
But in my experience, some forms of religion can create unnecessary obstacles to people in becoming mature and satisfied human beings in that area. After all, many Christians that dot our history were literally so afraid of intimate sexual relationships that they saw celibacy as the only option. And we are deeply influenced by that logic, still, in our Christian religious communities.

Have you read William Blake's poem, The Garden of Love? Or perhaps check out Rowan William's essay, The Body's Grace, some time. Both speak to the weakness of traditional Christian understandings of desire and eros.

"Some forms of religion."

As though some forms of psychology haven't also been dangerous. I've been around long enough to see theories come and go. Everyone who has to do a doctoral thesis creates a new theory.

I'd rather listen to the witness of real experience than untested theory in such matters.

2PhiloVoid · May 3, 2019

Endeavourer said:
Loved your reply!!!!

They don't inspire confidence that they'd even be able to dispatch a spider, though.

One would think that playing "Call of Duty" (...not that I play that, mind you) ... would almost automatically engender the kind of mindset needed to promote the dispatching of spiders. But, I'm sure there are caveats tucked into "man-boy psychology" that we can only hope don't exist when nasty spiders do appear ... ^_^

FireDragon76 · May 3, 2019

derpytia said:
My advice: Don't go looking for a woman to date/marry just because you want to have righteous sex as soon as possible. We are no glorified sex objects for men to merely lust after. If sex is the only thing you can think of then it sounds like you need therapy more than you need a wife.

"Righteous sex". That's a new one. Folks in the 60's were no doubt having alot of that before AIDS came around.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with desiring physical intimacy. The real problem is that's a two way street.

salt-n-light · May 3, 2019

Emosoundlogic said:
So, the bible is pretty clear when it comes to pre-marital sex. It's a sin. Why, that can be debated, but that's not something I want to do. I personally don't have an issue with the idea of abstinence until marriage, there's a pretty good amount of non-biblical proof to support it anyway.

My issue is simple... I think the western, modern church, has failed singles.

Paul makes it quite clear that it is better to marry than to burn with desire. However, in that day, a man such as myself, could literally buy a wife. I make very good money.

My issue is, people in general, especially women (it seems to me) want to date for long extended periods of time before they're even willing to consider marriage.

I am 33 years old. I had it rough getting started, let's just say I was sexualized at a very young age without even knowing what it was, and then given unrestricted internet access that you can imagine created problems for me.

I've been a Christian since I was like 5, and I've wrestled with this issue since I was like 16. Not trying to dig up years and years of therapy, but I'm not a typical guy, I have a lot of damage in this area.

Now days if I want to get married, assuming I can even find a woman that wants to date me (you'd be surprised how much of a struggle it is to find one), I am looking at months of "dating" before we are in a "relationship" followed by most likely years, and then finally we get married and I am finally allowed to have sex.

I personally don't think that's how it was meant to be, and I think we unduly suffer because of it. I think the church has abandoned us in this area.

What do you mean by "failed singles"?

I can agree that there hasn't been much emphasis when it comes to living a life that doesn't require marriage, but I would blame culture more than the church. People at the end of the day tend to uphold teachings of culture than studying up on the bible and discover for themselves that yes, you can live fruitfully in any season. It isnt a pretty or neat life, but it is one of profit. But profit takes time to build.

People lack patience, and I think that plays a major factor when it comes to building up relationships in general. We want the wife, the husband, the friends, right away, and the thought of prolonging that more than "usual" scares us. Recognizing that even if I'm pursuing something, that it may not come like I expect it to, heck it may not come at all, and learning being ok with that idea, and seeing that all is working for our good, is needed imo. The sooner Christians can make peace with that, I think it will make the walk less burdensome than it needs to be.

It feels failed because we put expectations on things that are not guaranteed in the first place, thanks to again emphasis within the culture. God didn't guarantee anyone any spouse, nor kids, nor parents. He only guaranteed things that are in accordance with His will, and that it is for our good. Church can't prescribe more than God's will.

Loneliness sucks. So is being with the wrong person. So is being with the right one at the worst time. So is being with the right one, but have stress with kids. So is being with the right one, have nice kids, but still have a disaster, or psychological problems. Nothing on this earth is immutable to the consequences of this life. Have to know how to appreciate any season you're in for yourself, and not put so much hope on the Church to fix how you feel on the issue.

FireDragon76 · May 3, 2019

salt-n-light said:
What do you mean by "failed singles"?

I can agree that there hasn't been much emphasis when it comes to living a life that doesn't require marriage, but I would blame culture more than the church. People at the end of the day tend to uphold teachings of culture than studying up on the bible and discover for themselves that yes, you can live fruitfully in any season.

Umm... it's not the result of ignorance of the Bible so much as biological drives and the desire to find physical companionship. Those aren't all bad things you know, in fact they are created goods.

It's basic misunderstandings like this that reinforce what I said earlier about some folks asking in the wrong place for advice. Trying to effectively skewer other peoples faith just because they hit the brick wall of reality isn't particularly pastoral.

Endeavourer · May 3, 2019

OK, @Emosoundlogic, here are a few questions that will help me help you write a profile. I want to identify to type of woman that would be compatible with you and then write a profile to appeal to her, truthfully describing intersections of interest you might have with her.

Read the article I linked for you about compatibility and then answer the following questions. It's at: Choosing the Right One to Marry - Letter #2 (Marriage Builders®,...

There are no wrong answers. This is just to understand the way you are in certain areas so you can find someone who is similar.

a) Intelligence: Roughly what was your GPA in high school? In college? What are the last 5 books you read and how long ago did you read them? What types of things do you do to nurture your intelligence?

b) Energy. OK, so you're an energy addict. Does that mean you go to the gym or a fitness activity 4x a week, or does that mean you have constant ants in your pants and need to burn off energy for three hours every evening and all day Sat/Sun? What type of vacations do you take? Reflecting very honestly, what level of energy goes into relaxing while on vacations? What would you like to do to relax at home? What do you actually do to relax (if its different than what you would like to do)?

c) Social. Are you an introvert or extrovert? Do you crack jokes often? Dry humor or conventional humor? How often are you the focal point of a group?

d) Cultural background. I have the idea on this, but how flexible can you be? Please read my posts #149 and #150. Could you enjoy/extend that level of flexibility with your beliefs?

e) What values do you have on your day to day life that are non-negotiable? Values that you continue to observe even if it would hurt your spouse? Church every Sunday? Brazillion jo-jangles? Raising your kids in a certain faith? Reading your Bible? .... etc... try to think of everything that you would do even at the expense of your spouse due to strong beliefs you might have. The point of this question is to make sure she shares those values so you "needing" to do them at her expense is not a possibility.

Emosoundlogic · May 3, 2019

Endeavourer said:
So here again, I'm in the reformed camp and my husband is in the more hyper than hyper Dispensational camp. Our doctrines have little intersection beyond the most basic things. THis might be a problem if you are having children together, but we aren't having any children.

Yet, in keeping with what I just discussed above, we have the most beautiful and engaging Bible studies together. We read the verses together and discuss the words in the verse, and discuss anything that catches our eye. We purposefully leave our own individual distinctives out of the conversation and talk more to our spiritual journeys. Sometimes we notice new things about the passage so we discuss that in a way that doesn't subtly try to proselytize the other.

For example, when I was reading through Acts 8 the other day I noticed this seeming two step salvation experience for the believers in Samaria. Both my husband and I are cessationists (we both 't believe there is not speaking in tongues currently but that it ceased a long time ago), so we can explore this rabbit hole together in a collaborative, non-offensive way. Another example is we were reading in Revelations and there was a reference to the "seven spirits before the throne". He's pre-trib and I'm amill, so not much common ground in Revelations other than both agreeing that the words are in there. We noticed this and started another rabbit trail of research on what the "seven spirits" might be referring to.

I'm elaborating on this to show you that you can have engaging conversations and relationships with people who have a spirit that bears witness to yours but don't fit all of your check boxes. My husband and I have an absolutely **wonderful** marriage. We are so much alike in personality but have opposite opinions about a lot of things. We just focus on our intersections and leave out the rest.

I may be wrong, but I believe the 7 spirits are the 7 churches.

FireDragon76 · May 3, 2019

Endeavourer said:
OK, @Emosoundlogic, here are a few questions that will help me help you write a profile. I want to identify to type of woman that would be compatible with you and then write a profile to appeal to her, truthfully describing intersections of interest you might have with her.

Read the article I linked for you about compatibility and then answer the following questions. It's at: Choosing the Right One to Marry - Letter #2 (Marriage Builders®,...

There are no wrong answers. This is just to understand the way you are in certain areas so you can find someone who is similar.

a) Intelligence: Roughly what was your GPA in high school? In college? What are the last 5 books you read and how long ago did you read them? What types of things do you do to nurture your intelligence?

b) Energy. OK, so you're an energy addict. Does that mean you go to the gym or a fitness activity 4x a week, or does that mean you have constant ants in your pants and need to burn off energy for three hours every evening and all day Sat/Sun? What type of vacations do you take? Reflecting very honestly, what level of energy goes into relaxing while on vacations? What would you like to do to relax at home? What do you actually do to relax (if its different than what you would like to do)?

c) Social. Are you an introvert or extrovert? Do you crack jokes often? Dry humor or conventional humor? How often are you the focal point of a group?

d) Cultural background. I have the idea on this, but how flexible can you be? Please read my posts #149 and #150. Could you enjoy/extend that level of flexibility with your beliefs?

e) What values do you have on your day to day life that are non-negotiable? Values that you continue to observe even if it would hurt your spouse? Church every Sunday? Brazillion jo-jangles? Raising your kids in a certain faith? Reading your Bible? .... etc... try to think of everything that you would do even at the expense of your spouse due to strong beliefs you might have. The point of this question is to make sure she shares those values so you "needing" to do them at her expense is not a possibility.

I re-read post #149 and I can say it's going to be tough for him unless he broadens his horizons. The sort of very conservative religious worldview he is enmeshed with doesn't ammend itself well to people in his situation- I was in an even more conservative church with even more strictures, so I know about that. Most conservative evangelicals idealize marrying young and have extremely rigid ideals about intimate relationships. If he thinks kids or people from other religious backgrounds are a burden, he's asking for a tall order.

Dating and Sex

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Compassion.

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