Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Jason0047 said:

Biblioaltry is nothing more than false slander. Nobody I know of actually bows down to an actual book and think it has more power than God or that the book is actually the entirety of God himself. The Bible says God is spirit. But we know that the words of the Bible are the thoughts and mind of God. So we do revere or regard God's Word as being special because they are a part of God. The Scriptures are His instructions for us today.

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Bibdolatry means the bible takes the place of the Holy Spirit. It's incredibly easy to do, since the carnal mind that can also read the scriptures wants nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

So for another reason, I cannot answer the yes/no poll, since it is possible that the misuse of scripture can result in rejecting the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Jason0047 said:

"...the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
(1 Corinthians 1:25).

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You are not God.

akaDaScribe said:

This much I can say,

Without the Bible, I would not have become a Christian and would not have connected with God.

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This is true for many. However, there are also many saved by the spoken word, as it is in the memory of many children of God.

I guess... looking at it that way, the word will, as Christ said " never pass away"

Michael Collum said:

Bibdolatry means the bible takes the place of the Holy Spirit. It's incredibly easy to do, since the carnal mind that can also read the scriptures wants nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

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That is a misconnect because the Scriptures are written by the Holy Spirit.

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"
(Ephesians 6:17).

"...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63).

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Timothy 3:16).

Shimokita said:

He wrote the gospel because God inspired him to do so. For us to believe it is obviously one of the reasons. But that is not what I said was unproven. What you asserted does not logically follow.

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Can you demonstrate how this does not follow? And what is Rome's official interpretation of John 20:31?
Here's there reference from a Catholic Bible:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 ¶ but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

The Holy Bible. (2006). (Revised Standard Version; Second Catholic Edition, Jn 20:30–31). San Francisco: Ignatius Press.

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written that you may [come to] believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name.

New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Jn 20:30–31). Washington, DC: The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

FenderTL5 said:

You are not God.

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I never said I was. That is your false accusation.
We are told to preach the Word (See 2 Timothy 4:2).

Michael Collum said:

I agree there's lots of treasures to uncover in the scriptures, most of them are uncovered through application.

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Right. Study to show yourselves approved unto God is one of them (2 Timothy 2:15).

You said:

However, I also recall this eastern saying: Beware of man who only reads one book.

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And this is a worldly saying. It doesn't mean anything. For if all people lived by the Word of God today, there would be no more problems in the world. Oh, but beware of them, right? Yeah, that makes no sense. The Bible teaches us to love God and to love your neighbor.

Athanasius377 said:

Can you demonstrate how this does not follow? And what is Rome's official interpretation of John 20:31?
Here's there reference from a Catholic Bible:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 ¶ but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

The Holy Bible. (2006). (Revised Standard Version; Second Catholic Edition, Jn 20:30–31). San Francisco: Ignatius Press.

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written that you may [come to] believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name.

New American Bible. (2011). (Revised Edition, Jn 20:30–31). Washington, DC: The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

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God gave us (the church) the exact set of words that we needed. No more, and no less. While God did speak many other words, the Bible are the words (from God) that we as the church need for salvation, doctrine, and instruction in righteousness. For can you imagine if there were almost endless books on the life of Jesus? We would want to keep reading the next book, and we could never truly focus on a certain set of doctrine or commands to guide our life because we would want to keep moving on to the next book on Jesus to learn more and more and more. It would not be feasible to have a library larger than Earth (on the life of Jesus) at our fingertips because our time here is limited.

Shimokita said:

He wrote the gospel because God inspired him to do so. For us to believe it is obviously one of the reasons. But that is not what I said was unproven. What you asserted does not logically follow.

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"Faith + obedience to the Roman magisterium"... that's what you seem to be insinuating. That's a weaker Biblical case than merely saying that the Bible has sufficient information for a person to come to saving knowledge of Christ.

Philip_B said:

I grow old, I grow old,
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled,
and here's no great matter,
I have seen the eternal footman hold my coat, and snicker,
and in short, I was afraid.

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Proofrock.

Michael Collum said:

So for another reason, I cannot answer the yes/no poll, since it is possible that the misuse of scripture can result in rejecting the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

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So you believe ALL people will misuse Scripture and reject the guidance of the Spirit?
That doesn't sound like such is the case according to Revelation.
There is the mention of faithful saints.
The hypothetical scenario of:..."Can the church survive without God's Word (i.e. Scripture)?" will never happen because Jesus says His words will never pass away.
But hypothetically speaking if God did allow for such to happen, the church would not survive because we derive our faith from God's Word (Romans 10:17). We know about Jesus and His salvation via the Bible. We are warned against false Christs because of the Bible. If there was no Bible, we would not know about these false Christs. We would not even know of the gospel. People would just hear different voices and not truly know it was from God. Remember, Satan can appear as an angel of light.
God confirmed the word of God with signs (miracles). Jesus performed signs (miracles), and His followers (the early church) performed miracles (signs) to confirm the Word of God was indeed the true Word from God.

"And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen" (Mark 16:20).

Why do you think Moses performed miracles of God?
It was to show the world that he was indeed a prophet of God, and that the words that would be given to him (the first five books of Moses) were indeed from God.

Michael Collum said:

So for another reason, I cannot answer the yes/no poll, since it is possible that the misuse of scripture can result in rejecting the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

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The misuse of scripture has also caused wars, broken families, and broken lives. There are people who claim to live by the "word of God" that have brought suffering and pain to this world. And it continues to happen every day, all with the claim that that are simply following "what the bible says".

Michael Collum said:

Bibdolatry means the bible takes the place of the Holy Spirit. It's incredibly easy to do, since the carnal mind that can also read the scriptures wants nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

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Well, I do see certain religions kissing the Bible, like they kiss statues and stuff. I suppose this is "Bible idolatry." But it is not possible for the Bible to take place of the Holy Spirit because the Bible was written by the Holy Spirit. If a person believes and follows everything in the Bible, they are following the Spirit's instructions. For the Word of God is the sword of the Spirit.

Tree of Life said:

Some in my other thread have begun to argue that the Bible is not strictly necessary. They said that if all the Bibles in the world were destroyed, the church would still survive. Could the church survive without God's word?

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The error of your presumption is that "God's word" is a physical book.

God's word is in the hearts of believers. American prisoners of war in Vietnam did not have bibles, but they had God's word kept in their hearts and minds and it brought them great comfort.

A Realist said:

The misuse of scripture has also caused wars, broken families, and broken lives. There are people who claim to live by the "word of God" that have brought suffering and pain to this world. And it continues to happen every day, all with the claim that that are simply following "what the bible says".

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But they are not really living by the Bible anymore than the Mormons, or JW's are living by the Bible. We know that they would be lying and are not following it's true instructions as a whole.

RDKirk said:

The error of your presumption is that "God's word" is a physical book.

God's word is in the hearts of believers. American prisoners of war in Vietnam did not have bibles, but they had God's word kept in their hearts and minds and it brought them great comfort.

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Refuted. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16).
The Bible is Scripture.
Most Christians agree with this fact.
They are the words of God because they are words that were inspired by God.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17).
This would be the gospel message from the Bible and sometimes would include other parts of Scripture in the hearing of this gospel message.

RDKirk said:

The error of your presumption is that "God's word" is a physical book.

God's word is in the hearts of believers. American prisoners of war in Vietnam did not have bibles, but they had God's word kept in their hearts and minds and it brought them great comfort.

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Just quoting this because I think it needs to be said more than once!

A Realist said:

Just quoting this because I think it needs to be said more than once!

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It boggles my mind that anyone can even believe that statement.
Yes, there is the Living Word (Jesus), but there is also the communicated Word of God, as well. For what on Earth are the Scriptures if they are not the communicated Word of God? What on Earth is the sword of the Spirit? Did not Jesus says his words are spirit and they are life? Did not Jesus and His followers quote Scripture as an authority many times? Why would they do this if they are not the words of God? Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Is that just some voice in your head? I tend to believe this to be the Bible.

Michael Collum said:

Bibdolatry means the bible takes the place of the Holy Spirit. It's incredibly easy to do, since the carnal mind that can also read the scriptures wants nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

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Agreed. And problems arise when people equate their interpretation with "the holy spirit speaking to me".

There's a lot of that going on. You would think that if it's truly the Spirit speaking, there wouldn't be so many differences in people's thoughts and actions.

I'd say that more than 90% of the time it's some other "spirit" speaking to them....the spirit of their own preconceived notions, thoughts and carnal misunderstandings.