Small minority of the Elect make it to Heaven

Robban

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I kind of look at it like this: If you do not see God everywhere, you see God nowhere. That includes the murderer.


If your referring to God in the analogy, isn't that making God in the image of man?

A man walking along a river,
he saw a skull floating on the surface.

Said he to it:
Because you drowned others, you were drowned;
and those who drowned you, will themselves be drowned.
(Ethics of the fathers 2:6)

The man was Hillel author of,
"What is hateful to you do not do unto your friend."
(according to tradition, Hillel and Moses shared the same soul)

Maimonides comments,
There are consequences to our actions-consequences that reflect those actions.
If you commit murder and drown others in a river to hide your crime,
you will recieve your punishment in the form of your crime.

If you invent an unjust thing to benefit yourself at the exspense of others, that unjust thing will ultimately be used
against you.

On the positive side,
if you introduce something that benefits others,
that thing will ultimately come to benefit you as well.

Further more,
from the Rebbe M. M. Schneerson of blessed memory,

came to the conclusion that the time had come for the soul of Pharaoh to find peace.
And by using Pharaoh,s soul as an example with which to teach a meaningful message,
Hillel uplifted Pharaoh,s soul, and granted it the ability to find peace.
 
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dlamberth

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A man walking along a river,
he saw a skull floating on the surface.

Said he to it:
Because you drowned others, you were drowned;
and those who drowned you, will themselves be drowned.
(Ethics of the fathers 2:6)

The man was Hillel author of,
"What is hateful to you do not do unto your friend."
(according to tradition, Hillel and Moses shared the same soul)

Maimonides comments,
There are consequences to our actions-consequences that reflect those actions.
If you commit murder and drown others in a river to hide your crime,
you will recieve your punishment in the form of your crime.

If you invent an unjust thing to benefit yourself at the exspense of others, that unjust thing will ultimately be used
against you.

On the positive side,
if you introduce something that benefits others,
that thing will ultimately come to benefit you as well.

Further more,
from the Rebbe M. M. Schneerson of blessed memory,

came to the conclusion that the time had come for the soul of Pharaoh to find peace.
And by using Pharaoh,s soul as an example with which to teach a meaningful message,
Hillel uplifted Pharaoh,s soul, and granted it the ability to find peace.
But would this be a Consequence of God's Judgment? Or maybe something else going on.
 
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Zoness

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dlamberth said:
Consequences are of kinds of things that ancient Greek Pagan Gods do.


So says the Pagans.

Where I was going with my line of rhetoric was I think the human-ness applies to all gods, pagan or otherwise.
 
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Robban

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But would this be a Consequence of God's Judgment? Or maybe something else going on.


To quote the Rebbe on this, he saw it as words of comfort
to the soul of one who feels that he or she is up against an
insurmountable challenge, an impenetrable cloud of darkness.

Hillel the great leader of Israel, turns to this person and says:

"If Pharaoh, the embodiment of evil,
the man who cast fear even into the heart of Moses, so much so that G-d had to reassure him and say,

Come to Pharaoh--I will accompany you, ended up drowned in a river, certainly all the Pharaohs of history,
all the great serpents that tried and will try to drown you
through physical and spiritual persecution--they wll be drowned as well.

For evil has no leg to stand on.
Like smoke it obscuresour vision for a time but must ultimately dissapear."
 
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Eyes wide Open

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Consequences very much ARE the kind of things that ancient Greek Pagan God's do.

Another option, one where consequences are not in the picture is where God is inherent within life itSelf. It's experiencing God as the Life Force of everything. I don't know how to get any more inclusive than that.

Generally when people think consequence they think punishment, and I think this muddies the waters.
If its acknowledgement and not punishment that's the consequence of action, it's a completely different thing.
You can punish a murderer for a crime by imprisoning them, but they may not acknowledge what they have done as wrong. IF they do acknowledge that then they would show remorse, and that remorse would be a consequence of that action. Awareness is the thing, something I believe we will have a whole lot more of after we die (If we don't all zip off into dust of course)
 
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CherubRam

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Yep, all gods are man made. :)
Our God claims that He came into being and is alive.

Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahwah), "and my servant (Yahshua) whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god (el) was formed, nor will there be one after me.

Isaiah 44:8. Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God (Eloah=Gods above) besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

Isaiah 45:5. I am the LORD (Yahwah), and there is no other; apart from me there is no God (Elohiym).



Deuteronomy 4:28
There you will worship man-made gods of wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Deuteronomy 28:36
The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Deuteronomy 29:17
You saw among them their detestable images and idols of wood and stone, of silver and gold.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2 Kings 19:18
They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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The mainstream does not make it to Heaven in the first resurrection.

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The true Elect are a small minority.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

So who or what is "mainstream?"
So, how do we know if we’re part of the elect? Don’t we have assurance of our salvation?
 
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Dave-W

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CherubRam

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God lives in hell as well:

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
A little bit of humor huh Dave. You know very well that Sheol means grave. By the way, I am back from my vacation, Ha, ha. I am interested in a article you wrote. Ill try to see If I can get permission to talk to you about it.
 
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Dave-W

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A little bit of humor huh Dave. You know very well that Sheol means grave.
Not a joke. This is a serious statement.

Sheol not only means the grave, but it is also the holding place for the souls/spirits of the unrighteous dead. I believe David meant the latter in this psalm.
 
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CherubRam

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Not a joke. This is a serious statement.

Sheol not only means the grave, but it is also the holding place for the souls/spirits of the unrighteous dead. I believe David meant the latter in this psalm.
Quote: God lives in hell as well
Really?
 
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Dave-W

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