Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Bible Highlighter · May 1, 2019

HTacianas said:
If God made the bible when did He make it and who decided to remove a bunch of books from it?

I believe God's Word always faithfully existed prior to the official declarations of men. But in circa 1900, the Bible was available to us in the world language in-errantly for the first time) (i.e. the circa 1900 Cambridge Edition of the KJV).

Before that time, the Bible perfectly existed in the Latin language Bible (Note: This was not the Catholic Latin Vulgate).

Before the Latin Bible, the Scriptures existed perfectly in the hands of a faithful few in Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT). Note: This does not mean believers had entire bibles back in this time, but they had them as a collective whole (i.e. scrolls) to read and share among each other. Not every believer had access to all of these scrolls (of course). So we are so blessed to have an entire Bible today.

Side Note:

The Apocrypha is clearly not a holy set of writings. It conflicts with the traditional Bible in many places and teaches weird mysticism.

Swan7 · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Some in my other thread have begun to argue that the Bible is not strictly necessary. They said that if all the Bibles in the world were destroyed, the church would still survive. Could the church survive without God's word?

Tree of Life said:
Without God's word, we are not his people and he is not our God.

Amos 8:11
And yet, God's Word remains. Who gave us the Bible? God. Who gave us the bread of heaven and living water? God. Who gives us eternal life? God, the Son - Jesus Christ.

Without God's Word (Jesus Christ - the Word manifest...) we would perish, I agree with that, but not about the Bible. God wrote His laws upon our heart. Again, as I've said before, there are moments in the world where people do not have access to Bibles. The Bible is but a tool, but not His Word which is Spirit and moves in us and through us.

What is more important is the Creator Himself Who gave us this instruction. It is He we worship, not paper and some leather.

HTacianas · May 1, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I believe God's Word always faithfully existed prior to the official declarations of men. But in circa 1900, the Bible was available to us in the world language in-errantly for the first time) (i.e. the circa 1900 Cambridge Edition of the KJV).

Before that time, the Bible perfectly existed in the Latin language Bible (Note: This was not the Catholic Latin Vulgate).

Before the Latin Bible, the Scriptures existed perfectly in the hands of a faithful few in Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT). Note: This does not mean believers had entire bibles back in this time, but they had them as a collective whole (i.e. scrolls) to read and share among each other.

Side Note:

The Apocrypha is clearly not a holy set of writings. It conflicts with the traditional Bible in many places and teaches weird mysticism.

So where does that leave the Greek Church that doesn't use an English translation? And how many books are in that bible you have?

Bible Highlighter · May 1, 2019

HTacianas said:
So where does that leave the Greek Church that doesn't use an English translation?

I will let the Lord speak on that matter.
But a person is able to tell by looking at Scripture (i.e. a traditional Bible).
Surely there are churches that speak Greek and yet they use traditional Bibles that Western churches use. God is into saving the world. This means that the gospel should be global. It should be available in the world language.

You said:
And how many books are in that bible you have?

You should be able to figure that answer out by what I have said so far. For I said that I believe that the, 1900 circa Cambridge Edition King James is the first time the Bible became available within in an inerrant form for us today.

Maria Billingsley · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Some in my other thread have begun to argue that the Bible is not strictly necessary. They said that if all the Bibles in the world were destroyed, the church would still survive. Could the church survive without God's word?

I think this question gets to the heart of the relationship between God's word and God's church. Catholics and EOs are wont to say: "Jesus didn't just leave us a Bible, he left us a church." They also want to say that the Bible and the church have an equal authority and even that the church wrote the Bible! In the Catholic and EO view, it sometimes seems to be the case that it's really the church that is most important, and the Bible is just a book that the church wrote.

But what would the church be without the word of God? Isn't it the word of God that creates and continually recreates the church? Isn't it the word of God that sustains the church? Isn't it the word of God that sanctifies the church and teaches the church?

Without the word of God, the church might still function in some traditional sense. It might go on to ordain bishops, sprinkle babies, lift up crackers to heaven and break them, etc. It might even have an unbroken line of ordination succession that can be traced back to the apostles! But without the word of God, the ministry of the church would not be able to help or save anybody. The church would become a dead institution that is utterly indistinguishable from the world.

Isn't this what happened to Israel in the time of Hosea? Though they were circumcised and had maintained certain Jewish traditions, they had become "Lo-Ammi" - not my people. Without God's word, we are not his people and he is not our God.

The WORD is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Tree of Life · May 1, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
The WORD is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Says who?

Maria Billingsley · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Says who?

The gospel of John-
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
He makes it clear that this "Word" that John is talking about is Jesus Christ.
John called Jesus "the Word" to help us see that.

Tree of Life · May 1, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
The gospel of John-
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
He makes it clear that this "Word" that John is talking about is Jesus Christ.
John called Jesus "the Word" to help us see that.

Why should I accept what something in the Bible says?

HTacianas · May 1, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I will let the Lord speak on that matter.
But a person is able to tell by looking at Scripture (i.e. a traditional Bible).
Surely there are churches that speak Greek and yet they use traditional Bibles that Western churches use. God is into saving the world. This means that the gospel should be global. It should be available in the world language.

You should be able to figure that answer out by what I have said so far. For I said that I believe that the, 1900 circa Cambridge Edition King James is the first time the Bible became available within in an inerrant form for us today.

You're going to have to describe what you consider to be a "traditional bible".

And I can't imagine why the bible would only become available in 1900.

Maria Billingsley · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Why should I accept what something in the Bible says?

It is also in Revelation:
"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
The onus is on you why we should not.
Blessings

Tree of Life · May 1, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
It is also in Revelation:
"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
The onus is on you why we should not.
Blessings

I don't accept stuff just because it's written in a book! Why should I accept what John says in his gospel and in Revelation?

Maria Billingsley · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
I don't accept stuff just because it's written in a book! Why should I accept what John says in his gospel and in Revelation?

Humm, interesting. So you do not believe in scripture? Well it would be difficult to debate someone who has no point of reference. If you do not believe in scripture, I am not sure why you call yourself reformed. Would that not be under another title?

Tree of Life · May 1, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Humm, interesting. So you do not believe in scripture? Well it would be difficult to debate someone who has no point of reference. If you do not believe in scripture, I am not sure why you call yourself reformed. Would that not be under another title?

I'm not making a statement about what I do or don't believe. I'm asking you why I should accept what John says. Could you answer that?

Tree of Life · May 1, 2019

My point is that saying that Jesus is the Word of God presupposes that the Bible is the word of God. Because we only learn that Jesus is the Word of God from the Bible.

Maria Billingsley · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
My point is that saying that Jesus is the Word of God presupposes that the Bible is the word of God. Because we only learn that Jesus is the Word of God from the Bible.

Yes and if that is the goal of your thread, you finally accomplished it.

icxn · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
My point is that saying that Jesus is the Word of God presupposes that the Bible is the word of God. Because we only learn that Jesus is the Word of God from the Bible.

The apostles must have lost their voices...

Tree of Life · May 1, 2019

icxn said:
The apostles must have lost their voices...

The apostles are all dead. But we have and need their writings!

icxn · May 1, 2019

Tree of Life said:
The apostles are all dead. But we have and need their writings!

Is that so? If you are indeed a Christian you are an equally valid apostolic letter to those around you, not just through your words, but by your holy way of life. More so through the latter.

2 Corinthians 3:1-3

Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. 3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

redleghunter · May 1, 2019

HTacianas said:
Paul was apostle to the gentiles and established Churches among them. He was obviously without scripture at some point else he would not have asked Timothy to bring them to him.

Was Paul not a walking TaNaKh?

Philippians 3: NASB
5circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; (NASB)

And this:

Galatians 1: NASB

15But when God, who had set me apart evenfrom my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased 16to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.

redleghunter · May 1, 2019

Wow this thread has gone in many directions.

For self examination purposes:

Where can we find the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles? That’s right in Holy Scriptures.

If we want to put this in a language all would be familiar with?

The Holy Spirit has “trademark” Rights. Not man nor any church.

Can the Church Survive Without God's Word?

Can the church survive without God's word?

Yes.

No.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Thank You Jesus!

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