Why do so many Christians not believe Jesus's plain words

The Righterzpen · Apr 30, 2019

A_Thinker said:
... nor did they make it a priority to salvage as much of His blood as they could ...

They weren't even the ones who buried Him. Ironically, it was 2 members of the Sanhedrin - the council that had Him put to death who buried Him!

Chew on that one a bit!

So apparently His literal flesh and blood was not on anybody's radar.

A_Thinker · Apr 30, 2019

The Righterzpen said:
They weren't even the ones who buried Him. Ironically, it was 2 members of the Sanhedrin - the council that had Him put to death who buried Him!

Chew on that one a bit!

So apparently His literal flesh and blood was not on anybody's radar.

There were believers at the cross. They could have gotten something ...

Gregory95 · Apr 30, 2019

No there is only one truth

Problem is no one heeded Paul's warning of wolves entering and if possible turning the elect away from truth as the Bible says

We are to be of ONE mind thus ALL denominations divide Christ with doctrines founded by men

When we SHOULD be following

you know ....

CHRISTS DOCTRINE

Remember Christ said

Not all who say to me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom this should make EVERYONE who professes the faith to dig into the Word of God made flesh for do you trust what men say about Christ or do you trust Christ

David Cabrera said:
Everyone says they have the Holy Spirit, yet they all have different doctrines? Is the Holy Spirit bipolar or what?

timothyu · Apr 30, 2019

A_Thinker said:
There were believers at the cross. They could have gotten something ...

Like selling strips of Beatles bedsheets?

timothyu · Apr 30, 2019

Gregory95 said:
for do you trust what men say about Christ or do you trust Christ

Logical to go to the source than get a knock-off from the trunk of some car. Although the knock-off may be cheaper it won't stand up for long.

FireDragon76 · Apr 30, 2019

A_Thinker said:
... nor did they make it a priority to salvage as much of His blood as they could ...

Eating his body in that manner would consume his body, which is different from what happens in the Lord's Supper.

It's one thing to disbelieve our doctrines but mocking what we believe is disrespectful and not a sign of any kind of love I can recognize.

FireDragon76 · Apr 30, 2019

Ken Rank said:
That's actually a better point than you might realize. Christ did not sin, sin is breaking the commandments (1 John 3:4). If he gave us a command to break an existing command, he sinned and isn't our redeemer. And cannibalism is a sin.

Cannibalism itself is not necessarily recognized as a sin in the Catholic church, or by many other Christians. Watch the movie Alive some time (great film on its own merits, BTW). The unfortunate survivors in the Andes sought absolution after their ordeal, and their confessors told them they committed no sin. The bodies they ate were already dead.

But at any rate, eating Christ's body and blood present in the sacrament of Holy Communion is not cannibalism, because Christ's body and blood are not consumed or destroyed, but merely eaten. His body is shared and distributed without being torn apart or broken up. Since Christ's presence is supernatural, it is different from normal eating.

A_Thinker · Apr 30, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
Eating his body in that manner would consume his body, which is different from what happens in the Lord's Supper.

It's one thing to disbelieve our doctrines but mocking what we believe is disrespectful and not a sign of any kind of love I can recognize.

Did you see that as "mocking" ?

That was simply a valid, yet unspoken, observation ...

anna ~ grace · Apr 30, 2019

godenver1 said:
When He says "this is my body"? What is there to misinterpret?

Edit: I wish I could change the title. Maybe it's too contentious. Forgive me.

I hear you. I believe in the Real Presence, too.

That at Mass, at Liturgy, the elements truly become His Body, and Blood.

This is what the Assyrian Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholic Churches all believe. We don't agree on a number of things, but do agree on that.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 30, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Yes, so when you say "We have the Holy Spirit", it doesn't solve the problem.

I am talking about "we" being Spirit filled christians.

timothyu · Apr 30, 2019

Any ritual serves a purpose and I respect that. But it just occurred to me. It all becomes a matter of perspective.
Could this not be seen by man as not just remembrance, but by man's subtle twists often done unaware by suggestion of the adversary, turning Jesus back to the world of man rather than of the Kingdom, back to flesh from spirit? Perspective. Does that not defeat the purpose of His Gospel of the Kingdom?

When the Kingdom and it's opposing ideals and identity as intended are removed from Christianity, does that not leave the door open to formulation of a more worldly religion convenient to the adversary who has no place in the Kingdom? I asked this question in a separate thread. The Adversary is about keeping everything in the flesh.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 30, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
Cannibalism itself is not necessarily recognized as a sin in the Catholic church, or by many other Christians. Watch the movie Alive some time (great film on its own merits, BTW). The unfortunate survivors in the Andes sought absolution after their ordeal, and their confessors told them they committed no sin. The bodies they ate were already dead.

But at any rate, eating Christ's body and blood present in the sacrament of Holy Communion is not cannibalism, because Christ's body and blood are not consumed or destroyed, but merely eaten. His body is shared and distributed without being torn apart or broken up. Since Christ's presence is supernatural, it is different from normal eating.

How is it not consumed if you eat it and swallow it?

Natsumi Lam · Apr 30, 2019

If we want to get technical that Jesus said this is my body and blood and to do it in memory of Him...

Do we have a piece of that bread and wine that He used?

timothyu · Apr 30, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
How is it not consumed if you eat it and swallow it?

We do not consume the HS or the spirit of God within us and make it no more, but it works within us. I'm just not sure of why as stated above, why it is necessary to convert that spirit back to flesh first. To take something used daily and see it as a reminder makes sense, but the two seem opposite in nature. Confusing.

FireDragon76 · Apr 30, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
How is it not consumed if you eat it and swallow it?

Because Jesus' presence is supernatural. We do not eat parts of Christ, but we receive the whole person of Christ in the sacrament.

FireDragon76 · Apr 30, 2019

timothyu said:
Any ritual serves a purpose and I respect that. But it just occurred to me. It all becomes a matter of perspective.
Could this not be seen by man as not just remembrance, but by man's subtle twists often done unaware by suggestion of the adversary, turning Jesus back to the world of man rather than of the Kingdom, back to flesh from spirit? Perspective. Does that not defeat the purpose of His Gospel of the Kingdom?

When the Kingdom and it's opposing ideals and identity as intended are removed from Christianity, does that not leave the door open to formulation of a more worldly religion convenient to the adversary who has no place in the Kingdom? I asked this question in a separate thread. The Adversary is about keeping everything in the flesh.

This doesn't sound respectful at all to me, really. It sounds quite haughty and presumptuous.

Christianity is not private mysticism or mere moral reform, at its center it has rites that are sacramental signs of the Kingdom of God, which we believe confer real grace to sinners.

timothyu · Apr 30, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
You're not being respectful at all when insinuate our rites are instruments of Satan.

I'm not insinuating anything but bringing up a point that I don't understand. If the spirit is freely given as such, why convert it back to flesh? it is a confusing concept and i await an answer as I surely can't be the first in church history to ask it. I'm sure it has been answered.

FireDragon76 · Apr 30, 2019

timothyu said:
I'm not insinuating anything but bringing up a point that I don't understand. If the spirit is freely given as such, why convert it back to flesh? it is a confusing concept and i await an answer as I surely can't be the forst in church history to ask it.

There is no conversion of spirit to flesh. Cut it out with the Gnostic polemics. You are wrong on this one. You are simply preaching made-up doctrines that have no place in Christianity.

I doubt you are interesting in actually learning anything, and I'm tired of arguing. So I will leave you be. I have explained many times exactly what we believe, and even tried to explain as much as humanly possible why this is so. We accept much of this as a mystery, because it is a divine thing and it's not something we just decided to believe for the heck of it, however much you insinuate it is mere priestcraft- which is insulting, BTW.

timothyu · Apr 30, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
There is no conversion of spirit to flesh.

Listen, I am not questioning the rituals of any church. I am merely saying why turn spirit back to flesh, a material object, if the whole concept behind being born again or Christianity for that matter, is to turn flesh to spirit? This is a stumbling block for me. I was hoping in an open forum there might be an answer.

FireDragon76 · Apr 30, 2019

timothyu said:
Listen, I am not questioning the rituals of any church. I am merely saying why turn spirit back to flesh, a material object, if the whole concept is to turn flesh to spirit? This is a stumbling block for me. I was hoping in an open forum there might be an answer.

Who says that is "the whole concept"? I must have missed that one in my catechism. I've been to multiple churches in my life and never heard such a thing preached anywhere.

You need to get catechized in a real church. What you are talking about is inconsistent with every creed of Christianity. Christ has a resurrected body, he is not disembodied nor is he a ghost. We believe in the resurrection of the dead. That is basic Christian dogma that is accepted on this website as true.

Why do so many Christians not believe Jesus's plain words

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