Same-Sex Attraction And The Church

DW1980 said:

Sorry, stopped reading here, as it's clearly as waste of time.

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waste of God's time as well.

Psalm 5:5 "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing:
the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

DW1980 said:

Irrelevant. You can work with people and not know them. How many close gay friends do you have?

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I don't want any gay friends.
They will deceive me.

besides God told me "NO !" in the bible. I'll follow God instead of you

DW1980 said:

How many close gay friends do you have?

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I have worked with gay people for many years and am close friends with a number of gay people who attend my church. Most of them are very kind, generous, and behave in a more Christ-like way than a lot of other people.

My church does not view gay people as degenerates that need to be squashed, but people who have the same hopes and dreams as everyone else, including the need to be valued and loved. Gays as well as straights are people made in the image of God who need our utmost love and care.

I am very blessed by the fact that I have personally found celibacy to be a comfortable and fulfilling way of life, but I know that for many it is an extremely hard path to take. I would not consider a relationship for both personal reasons and reasons of conscience. However, I am extremely careful not to judge those who have decided that it is not for them - lest I too become judged in the same manner than I judge others. I understand that people have an innate need to be loved and to express their love - for many this is in the context of a fulfilling relationship. It is very easy, and I would go as far to say cowardly, to point at other people's sins and not lift a finger to help them. I believe that as Christians we are called to costly discipleship which involves carrying one another's burdens and to fulfil the law of Christ.

tulipbee said:

I don't want any gay friends.
They will deceive me.

besides God told me "NO !" in the bible. I'll follow God instead of you

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Deceive you? How? Are you worried you might see an actual human being with feelings under those labels? You can't catch it, you know.

tulipbee said:

waste of God's time as well.
Psalm 5:5 "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing:
the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

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My "waste of time comment" referred to the fact that you clearly have no idea what it is to be gay, much less a gay person with faith in Jesus. You're responding with ignorance to a thread where a man has opened up, and made himself vulnerable. Enough said.

tulipbee said:

I don't want any gay friends. They will deceive me.

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There really is nothing more that can be said.

Introverted1293 said:

I have same-sex attraction. I know that it is a sin against God.

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It is absolutely NOT a sin to experience same sex attraction. All persons experience attractions to sinfulness. It even has a name. Concupiscense. It is the result of our fallen nature as human beings. So long as these temptations and attractions are treated as a cross, ("pick up your cross and follow me daily"), and not given importance, prominence in self-identity etc., there is no sin. Just a cross.

Sodomy is one of many sexual acts with ARE sinful, and can break ones relationship to God, so of course you should not cross the line from temptation and ideation to act. And if you did, and were not repentant or contrite you remain in your sin. If you were Catholic or EO, I would recommend the sacrament of reconciliation, (referred to as "confession") for any and all acts of commission in this or any other area of sin.

Now don't get me wrong. To dwell in, and revel in sinful thought is destructive. You open yourself up and weaken yourself to the commission of sinful acts. So, prayer when the thoughts come strong would be highly advisable. God will strengthen you if asked. But you must accept His grace and assistance, and not fight it. This grace is the essence of moral conscience for the Christian. And as He told Saint Paul, when the blessed apostle asked the Lord to remove a recurrent aggravation of his, "No. My grace is sufficient for you", so we must be prepared for that to be the answer as well. So....................back to the "pick up your cross" thing.

Do keep in mind though that for the believer to truly does turn to Him for help in battling sin, "come to me all you who are labored and burdened, and I will give you rest", so never despair if you are one of His sheep.

Introverted1293 said:

But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members?

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I wouldn't unless you have a personal spiritual director, who also has an understanding of the lines between concupiscence and commission, and can in some way absolve you if you fall. Not sure what all the protestant equivalents for this are in your particular faith confession/group/denomination. It should not be in the twisted spirit of "coming out" which is a self medicating admission that one is not going to fight their temptations, and instead intend to give in to sin and intend to commit actual sin as a matter of course without repentance, and are seeking validation for the ego to feel better about it. "Coming Out" is NOT a spiritual act, or a confession of sin. It is an act of self gratification, and a seeking of moral permission from other fallen human beings to commit ones personal sin with impunity.

Other the other hand, if you mean to discuss it with another person who considers the whole thing as a struggle with temptation, then it can be useful, and help with accountability. You have to discern your motives. Is it to seek validation, or help fight sin? No one can answer that for you.

Introverted1293 said:

Part of me thinks that I should not go to church because let's face it, homosexuality is a sin that the church hates the most. That is why they preach against it the most. Well, that is what it shows on the media anyways.

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The Church is a hospital for sinners. Not a museum for saints. We are all working towards perfection. "Be perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect", but will not achieve it until the last day. You should absolutely be going to Church. Everybody there is in a struggle with sin. If you feel that homosexuality is a worse sin or the most hated sin, then you may want to examine the Church you affiliate yourself with. Not that you should find a church that validates and nurtures your particular sin, but because all sin which wounds the relationship with God in a mortal way is equally repugnant. Homosexuality is one thing in a long list of things that we're supposed to avoid. It is not better or worse than murder, adultery, theft, lying, idolotry (it actually IS this sin in a way). That fact is that sexual sin is more "common" than some of the others, and so gets more attention. The other problem to Christians who truly struggle with sin as we are supposed to is that sexual sinners so often want to do away with the notion that what they do IS a sin. I think this can create a tension and even a resentment in Christians who view these things as a trial that they deal with every day. Every time a brother gives in and says "I AM" this or that thing, it is an invalidation of their own struggle which they are undertaking in good Christian will. Sexual sinners often want to get get rid of the concept of the sinful nature rather than admit they are a victim of it, and deal with it as a Christian disciple. There is such a temptation to give into the world which wants to validate and even celebrate sexual sin, largely because it makes other sexually sinful people feel better about themselves and their own sexual sin. None of us should feel good, validated, held up or vindicated in our sin. Guilt has a very real place in a persons sanctity. It doesn't arise from a bad upbringing. It arises from a good upbringing.

Introverted1293 said:

it is an unnatural sin. But because they speak so much against it, I have to wonder why go to church when everyone will clearly be uncomfortable around me because of my sinful struggle? I want to know the truth. But it is hard to hear the truth when the people who tell you the truth hates your sin the most. It will be like wanting to get educated, but the educator makes you feel stupid if you got the wrong answer. You want to know if you got the answer right or wrong, but your teacher was very condescending in the way that corrected you.

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All sin is by nature unnatural in that it is acts which are not ordered towards their natural end and purpose. They are acts literally against nature which is God's creation. Homosexuality, once again, is just one of many sins against nature and therefore God. that is what makes something a sin. Sin is a rebellion against the natural way of God. Once again....if your church is so hypercritical of sinful nature, you may want to discern whether or not you are in an authentic Christian community. They should not abandon you because of your thoughts and dispositions. Excommunication and shunning are for those who are unrepentantly sinning in ACT with abandon, and without guilt. Not for those who are picking up and carrying their crosses daily. Take a good meditative read of St. Paul's letters to the Corinthians. These issues are tackled in those two letters in a reasonably straightforward way.

Introverted1293 said:

Again, the question is, do I need to reveal my sin to members of the church? Should I just have a don't ask and don't tell attitude? I know that the Bible says to confess your sins one to another, but that is the sin that gets condemned the most by other Christians. I don't know if I want to reveal that to them.

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You can only be condemned by God. If you're truly struggling, and don't feel you can bring that up, then there are some red flags that need to be dealt with.

Peace to you. I will pray for you and your struggles. Please pray for me as well.

There is nothing Christ-like about behaving in a homosexual way - a behaviour which the Bible repeatedly and explicitly condemns.

Leviticus 18:22
22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:26-28
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

God does not give anyone the freedom to indulge in a behaviour He has called an abomination with impunity, however kind and generous we may think them to be. It is at least as great an evil to encourage such people in their homosexual sin and to foster in them the belief that God accepts them even though He does not. How terrible to have deceived them into thinking they will meet their Heavenly Father one day when in fact they will encounter a wrathful, divine Judge!

Am I suggesting in calling homosexuality the sin that it is that homosexuals ought to be maltreated? Of course not. Christ died for all because all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. And he did so when we were all of us mired in sin and rebellion toward our Maker. He showed us love, not by accommodating our sin, but by helping us see our sin for what it is and making a way for us to be free of it. It is not cruelty, then, when a disciple of Christ points to homosexual sin and calls it what it is; it is not abuse when he urges the homosexual to forsake their sin and be truly reconciled to God. It's love.

Also, it is neither noble nor Christlike to forswear all judgment. It is Christ himself who commanded,

John 7:24
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

Throughout the NT we see judgments being passed upon a wide assortment of behaviours. Paul, Peter, John - they all condemn things like adultery, promiscuity, greed, anger, unforgiveness, legalism and so on. In doing so they have passed judgment upon these behaviours; they have weighed them and found them morally wanting. Really, one cannot be a thinking, moral being without judging the moral, or functional, or aesthetic qualities of a wide variety of things. It is not wrong, then, to judge things - only to do so when one is blinded by one's own sin or is condemning in others the very thing of which one is also guilty (which is exactly what happens when somebody says, "You ought not to judge.")

I would not say anything to anyone at your church.

In my church we have gays in the congregation and as far as i am aware are treated as everyone else.

Anthony2019 said:

There really is nothing more that can be said.

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Slick maneuver, Mr. Sweet !

Foundationless speculation. More traditions-of-men
without a basis in Scripture.

As YOU do not. We search the Scriptures for truth.

Non-Christians AREN'T the "brothers" of believers.

Christianity ain't about feelings. Isn't even about us.
It's about Christ, and Him proclaimed in God's Word:
The Bible.

Not only aren't non-Believers
our "brothers", but we are to
"hate" those who hate the Lord !
(Psalm 139:21-22)

Jesus never said to love His enemy's

God-haters ~aren't~ the brothers of
Christians. And, indeed, Scripture
itself describes you as "fools" (Psalm
14:1).

Nice attempt at distorting what the
Bible says, though !

"Judge with righteous judgment"
(John 7:24 NASB)

DW1980 said:

Deceive you? How? Are you worried you might see an actual human being with feelings under those labels? You can't catch it, you know.



My "waste of time comment" referred to the fact that you clearly have no idea what it is to be gay, much less a gay person with faith in Jesus. You're responding with ignorance to a thread where a man has opened up, and made himself vulnerable. Enough said.

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rabbit trail

tulipbee said:

Slick maneuver, Mr. Sweet !

Foundationless speculation. More traditions-of-men
without a basis in Scripture.

As YOU do not. We search the Scriptures for truth.

Not only aren't non-Believers
our "brothers", but we are to
"hate" those who hate the Lord !
(Psalm 139:21-22)

Jesus never said to love His enemy's

God-haters ~aren't~ the brothers of
Christians. And, indeed, Scripture
itself describes you as "fools" (Psalm
14:1).

Nice attempt at distorting what the
Bible says, though !

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Distorting the Bible - YOU just did!

Psalm 139:21-22
Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with complete hatred; I count them my enemies.

That's David speaking. Here's Jesus:
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you… (Matthew 5:43-44)

Notice Jesus would be telling David to love those he considers his enemies - including those who "rise up" against God.

Introverted1293 said:

For your questions, I'm just starting to go to church. I haven't attend a church regularly. One of the reasons is because I have an extreme fear of wide open spaces. And I just received a mobile scooter with a canopy and it helps me get around.

Thank you very much. God bless

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The mobile scooter with a canopy sounds like a wonderful invention. I've glad you've found a way to get out into the world.

Searching_for_God said:

As someone who also has partial same-sex attraction, I think it would be unnecessary to reveal to everyone at church that you have same-sex attractions yourself. You don't necessarily have to hide it, but you don't have to announce it either.

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I completely agree with this. I would only tell those you relate to in the congregational leadership on a regular basis.. (and I hope you are not in a legalistic or judgemental congregation)

Introverted1293 said:

But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members

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I don't believe that you do. It would be wonderful if all Christians everywhere could be trusted to accept you in spite of your struggles. But somehow, I don't think it would be that easy for you.

I would encourage you to keep this information to yourself and tell only those whom you believe are trustworthy.

Good luck!