Is having Faith in the gospel a "work"?

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, thus Total Depravity is established and Arminianism must be false, for if one chooses to obey the gospel it then becomes works-based salvation (which both sides disagree with).

I believe scripture makes it clear that having Faith is distinguishable from Works, and God does not count Faith towards the gospel to be a work in the sense of "works salvationism." Faith is not the Law, although holding Faith in the gospel IS required in order to enter into Eternal life (both sides agreeing). Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11, John 6:47

Romans 4:2-5 (NKJV)
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness...

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I believe the scriptures above show that Faith is not considered a Work. Is it fair to say that Arminians believe in saving ourselves through the "Work" of holding Faith in the Gospel? If one, through their own free will, puts their Faith in the gospel, are they "saving themselves"?


Blessings,

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The two examples you give, Romans 4 and Ephesians 8, do not have the meaning you are assigning to them.

In reading Ephesians 2 from the beginning, Paul is talking about all those things the Ephesians did prior to their salvation to illustrate that salvation is not a reward for the works they had done previously. The writer begins, "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins" and then, "even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ", and ends "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God".

It has nothing to do with our works after salvation. He goes on, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them".

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ.

The ability to accept that word is a gift of Grace.

The will of man is not part of the process.

Jhn 1:13

who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is all of God.

No works involved.

To the called, His love is irresistible.

Calvinists and Arminians agree that "faith" is the sole instrument to salvation in Christ, and that such "faith" originates from divine grace, but they differ as to how it occurs.

Calvinist teach what is known as 1) monergism and 2) irresistible grace, that faith itself is the act of divine action in the sinner to come to Christ willingly. This guarantees that the sinner will be saved.

Arminians generally teach what is known as 1) synergism and 2) enabling grace, that faith itself is a divine enablement in the sinner and must be cooperated with in order to be in Christ. This doesn't always guarantee that the sinner will be saved.

Of course this crosses over to the topic of how depraved and fallen are we from Adam to better understand how they come to these conclusions, among other doctrinal points.

I find the position of the particular view of Arminianism above is that faith, though originating from a kind of grace, still requires the enabled will of the creature to finally make the ultimate decision, turning faith into a sort of "work" that must be stirred or summoned by that creature to accomplish the end of the gospel preaching. He can decide to choose or not, to make Christ's death effectual or not, etc. In the Calvinist position, salvation is entirely God working in that individual to be saved, that not even the willingness of the creature is from his own, but divine grace irresistibly drawing him. It isn't that he is being forced to come, but that he cannot but come and finds it hard to resist. His disposition is changed and he will correspond accordingly.

Sure it is a mental act/work, obedience, but the work of God should be directed toward believing that Jesus is the promised Messiah of God, from Old Testament prophecies. When you believe that, then trust in Jesus for His gift of His eternal life.

There are many gospels out there created by man/denominations/churches but a person will never go wrong when they trust in The Messiah for His gift of His eternal life.

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, thus Total Depravity is established and Arminianism must be false, for if one chooses to obey the gospel it then becomes works-based salvation (which both sides disagree with).

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Calvinists??? It sounds strange. I think there's a misunderstanding between them and you.

d taylor said:

Sure it is a mental act/work, obedience, but the work of God should be directed toward believing that Jesus is the promised Messiah of God, from Old Testament prophecies. When you believe that, then trust in Jesus for His gift of His eternal life.

There are many gospels out there created by man/denominations/churches but a person will never go wrong when they trust in The Messiah for His gift of His eternal life.

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

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God's work is giving us faith --- HE brings us to Christ.

Calvinism....

Creator: You don't need to see his identification.
Creature: We don't need to see his identification.
Creator: These are not the droids you're looking for.
Creature: These are not the droids we're looking for.

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Technically yes, faith is a work; but it's the work of God.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Galatians 2:16&20
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Note who's faith it is.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, thus Total Depravity is established and Arminianism must be false, for if one chooses to obey the gospel it then becomes works-based salvation (which both sides disagree with).

I believe scripture makes it clear that having Faith is distinguishable from Works, and God does not count Faith towards the gospel to be a work in the sense of "works salvationism." Faith is not the Law, although holding Faith in the gospel IS required in order to enter into Eternal life (both sides agreeing). Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11, John 6:47

Romans 4:2-5 (NKJV)
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness...

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I believe the scriptures above show that Faith is not considered a Work. Is it fair to say that Arminians believe in saving ourselves through the "Work" of holding Faith in the Gospel? If one, through their own free will puts their Faith in the gospel, are they "saving themselves"?


Blessings,

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I think it's helpful to consider this, if faith comes before regeneration, then it follows an unbeliever can please God by choosing to believe, but in Scripture we read without faith it is impossible to please God, and we read we love him because he first loved us. So...

The Ordo Salutis (order of salvation):

1) election/predestination (in Christ),
2) Atonement
3) gospel call
4) inward call
5) regeneration,
6) conversion (faith & repentance),
7) justification,
8) sanctification, and
9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)

6.) Faith and repentance:

Phoebe Ann said:

God's work is giving us faith --- HE brings us to Christ.

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The gift (free) of God is eternal life, every person has the ability to have faith.

5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, thus Total Depravity is established and Arminianism must be false, for if one chooses to obey the gospel it then becomes works-based salvation (which both sides disagree with).

I believe scripture makes it clear that having Faith is distinguishable from Works, and God does not count Faith towards the gospel to be a work in the sense of "works salvationism." Faith is not the Law, although holding Faith in the gospel IS required in order to enter into Eternal life (both sides agreeing). Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11, John 6:47

Romans 4:2-5 (NKJV)
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness...

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I believe the scriptures above show that Faith is not considered a Work. Is it fair to say that Arminians believe in saving ourselves through the "Work" of holding Faith in the Gospel? If one, through their own free will puts their Faith in the gospel, are they "saving themselves"?


Blessings,

Click to expand...

John 6:28-29
28) Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” 29) Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

I'm not a Calvinist and I'm not an Arminian. The truth lies somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. I think you'll find the following article to be most enlightening on this subject~~~> https://d3uet6ae1sqvww.cloudfront.n...ds-choice-or-ours-predestination-election.pdf

The works that are not accepted by God for salvation are: church attendance, believing the Bible, learning the Bible (the demons do all these things and they are not saved!). Also, saying Mass, praying to Mary and the Saints, trying to live a moral life, acting all saintly and religious, and obeying church laws and rules.

As it has been said, faith is believing the gospel. It is an attitude of heart and mind toward Christ. We either accept or reject Him and His finished work on the cross. After true conversion to Christ as the result of believing the gospel and receiving Christ, then the good works that arise out of the fruit of the Spirit are accepted and honoured by God as our sanctification (setting ourselves and our conduct for Him).

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, thus Total Depravity is established and Arminianism must be false, for if one chooses to obey the gospel it then becomes works-based salvation (which both sides disagree with).

I believe scripture makes it clear that having Faith is distinguishable from Works, and God does not count Faith towards the gospel to be a work in the sense of "works salvationism." Faith is not the Law, although holding Faith in the gospel IS required in order to enter into Eternal life (both sides agreeing). Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11, John 6:47

Romans 4:2-5 (NKJV)
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness...

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I believe the scriptures above show that Faith is not considered a Work. Is it fair to say that Arminians believe in saving ourselves through the "Work" of holding Faith in the Gospel? If one, through their own free will puts their Faith in the gospel, are they "saving themselves"?


Blessings,

Click to expand...

The words "work of faith" can be found in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11.

James says he will show you his faith, by his works.


Jesus said that the works of God is to believe on Him who He has sent.


This makes sense because to believe in Jesus is a commandment (law) (See 1 John 3:23).
Are you not saved or justified in keeping this Law?

Yet, the Scriptures say we are not justified by the Law.
We know the Bible cannot contradict itself, so this means there is another answer.
The answer is that the law we are not justified by is the 613 laws of Moses (contractually speaking).
Paul is not referring to the commands (laws) given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers.

Jason0047 said:

The words "work of faith" can be found in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11.

James says he will show you his faith, by his works.

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18).​

Jesus said that the works of God is to believe on Him who He has sent.

28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 6:28-29).​

This makes sense because to believe in Jesus is a commandment (law) (See 1 John 3:23).
Are you not saved or justified in keeping this Law?

Yet, the Scriptures say we are not justified by the Law.
We know the Bible cannot contradict itself, so this means there is another answer.
The answer is that the law we are not justified by is the 613 laws of Moses (contractually speaking).
Paul is not referring to the commands (laws) given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers.

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Really ???

Would you like to explain your position again - Is having faith in the Gospel a work???

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, ...

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I think this is useless consideration, if one doesn’t also recognize everything else said in the Bible.

Bible tells, eternal life is for righteous. That is the key for the whole matter. And if person is righteous, he is also freely faithful/loyal to God. And if person is loyal to God, he lives by God’s law, which is, love your neighbor as yourself.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Salvation means that sins are forgiven. It saves from the judgment that would come because of sin and gives a news start, but after it, person must be born anew and become righteous, to get eternal life. Eternal life is not reward for works, it is a gift for those who are righteous. And people who are righteous, want to live well and love others as themselves. Works are only like a fruit that tells is the tree good or bad. And if the tree is good, it survives.

Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.
Matt. 7:17-20

I hope you are a “good tree” and understand that righteousness can’t be faked to God, even if you could fool some men.

friend of said:

I've been having a discussion with certain Calvinists lately who claim that holding Faith in the gospel should be considered a work of man, thus Total Depravity is established and Arminianism must be false, for if one chooses to obey the gospel it then becomes works-based salvation (which both sides disagree with).

I believe scripture makes it clear that having Faith is distinguishable from Works, and God does not count Faith towards the gospel to be a work in the sense of "works salvationism." Faith is not the Law, although holding Faith in the gospel IS required in order to enter into Eternal life (both sides agreeing). Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11, John 6:47

Romans 4:2-5 (NKJV)
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness...

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I believe the scriptures above show that Faith is not considered a Work. Is it fair to say that Arminians believe in saving ourselves through the "Work" of holding Faith in the Gospel? If one, through their own free will puts their Faith in the gospel, are they "saving themselves"?


Blessings,

Click to expand...

I did not like the way the alternatives were stated especially “ No, but we must believe in the Gospel (synergism)”

The Good News (Gospel) for the nonbeliever is way too much for him/her to believe or have to believe to begin with and if they did it would be something honorable, worthy, righteous, spiritual, and of great value. All of which is way beyond the nonbeliever’s ability.

There is something the nonbeliever can trust (have faith in) which can be for very selfishly motivated (unholy). The nonbeliever is like the Prodigal son in that he/she can through their life be brought to their senses by their own stupid actions and at these times choose to be macho, fight on, pay the piper and even accept the punishment they fully deserve or they can wimp out, give up and surrender to the enemy while they feel God is still their enemy and they fully deserve to be tortured to death for their previous war crimes. They are just willing to humbly accept God’s undeserved charity and put their trust in God’s mercy/grace/Love/charity, to just have some kind of underserved livable life.

This very small hoping, trusting, accepting faith all mature adults are capable of directing this little faith toward their enemy for selfish reasons and thus allows God to shower them with unbelievable gifts.

bling said:

I did not like the way the alternatives were stated especially “ No, but we must believe in the Gospel (synergism)”

The Good News (Gospel) for the nonbeliever is way too much for him/her to believe or have to believe to begin with and if they did it would be something honorable, worthy, righteous, spiritual, and of great value. All of which is way beyond the nonbeliever’s ability.

There is something the nonbeliever can trust (have faith in) which can be for very selfishly motivated (unholy). The nonbeliever is like the Prodigal son in that he/she can through their life be brought to their senses by their own stupid actions and at these times choose to be macho, fight on, pay the piper and even accept the punishment they fully deserve or they can wimp out, give up and surrender to the enemy while they feel God is still their enemy and they fully deserve to be tortured to death for their previous war crimes. They are just willing to humbly accept God’s undeserved charity and put their trust in God’s mercy/grace/Love/charity, to just have some kind of underserved livable life.

This very small hoping, trusting, accepting faith all mature adults are capable of directing this little faith toward their enemy for selfish reasons and thus allows God to shower them with unbelievable gifts.

Click to expand...

The gospel is very simple: God sent Jesus to come and die for us on the cross to pay the price for our sins, and if we choose to believe it and receive Christ as our Saviour, we will be forgiven, cleansed, and given eternal life.

Even the most depraved person can make choices about what he or she wants to do every day, so the choice is simple: do I choose to believe that this bloke Jesus died for me on the cross or don't I? It's basically as simple as that. Not rocket science. Paul's answer to the Philippian jailor was very simple. Answering the jailor's question, "What must I do to be saved?" Paul said, "Believe on Jesus and be baptised". Nothing more complicated than that. The jailor had a simple choice and he chose to believe in Christ. The Ethiopian Eunuch didn't even pray a sinner's prayer after hearing what Philip had to say, all he said was, "Here's water, what's stopping me from getting baptised?" His decision for Christ was getting baptised and that was it!

Sometimes we need to get away from the religious clap trap and see what the Bible actually says about receiving Christ and look at the examples of people doing just that and to see how simple it actually is.