Same-Sex Attraction And The Church

tulipbee

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This is ridiculous. Many Churches understand the Bible differently and affirm same sex relationships. That does not mean they are out to make anyone gay, or take the Bible less seriously than Churches that hold to a more traditional view. You cannot control or choose your sexuality.
you're born a male or female.
 
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PloverWing

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they do their jobs well. they have no family to return home too.
Of course gay people can have families. Even if they choose not to marry, for reasons of conscience, they can live in households with siblings, parents, cousins, or friends who love them. We are doing a terrible thing if we drive our gay friends and family members into isolation.
 
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tulipbee

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Of course gay people can have families. Even if they choose not to marry, for reasons of conscience, they can live in households with siblings, parents, cousins, or friends who love them. We are doing a terrible thing if we drive our gay friends and family members into isolation.
new personality disorders will get added to the list. then the tax payers pays to fix the problem. then the governments bail them out, again. you'll profit from the gays but it's greed
 
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Anthony2019

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Thank you

It is very hard. But if I am to be honest with you, I don't value it as much as I should. I have been too distracted.
I think you underestimate yourself very unfairly.

Your posts suggest to me that you are a person who very much values his relationship with God and whose heart's desire is to please Him.

I mentioned that Christians have come to many different conclusions on the issue of homosexuallity. However I have been very moved by some of the responses given to you here on this thread. In a world where Christians are often perceived to be anti gay, you have had some very kind and empathetic comments from people who very much respect and value you as a person, have offered to pray for you and whose desire is that God will lead you and draw you closer to Him. Consider it as a very big hug from your brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
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Anthony2019

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they do their jobs well. they have no family to return home too.
Recently I went to see a friend of mine who is gay and was in an ITU in hospital suffering from severe septic shock. At visiting time, the waiting room was crowded with his family, his friends and many people from his church who wanted to sit at his bedside, to pray with him and to comfort him. These were people whose lives were touched by his kindness and faithfulness over many, many years. He was a man who very much knew the love of Christ and was reflected in how he lived his life and blessed others. We were told that the prognosis was not good, but he thankfully made a full recovery and continues to be a real blessing to those who know him.
 
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Watchmanwoman

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I have same-sex attraction. I know that it is a sin against God. But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members?

Part of me thinks that I should not go to church because let's face it, homosexuality is a sin that the church hates the most. That is why they preach against it the most. Well, that is what it shows on the media anyways.

I understand that it is an unnatural sin. But because they speak so much against it, I have to wonder why go to church when everyone will clearly be uncomfortable around me because of my sinful struggle? I want to know the truth. But it is hard to hear the truth when the people who tell you the truth hates your sin the most. It will be like wanting to get educated, but the educator makes you feel stupid if you got the wrong answer. You want to know if you got the answer right or wrong, but your teacher was very condescending in the way that corrected you.

Again, the question is, do I need to reveal my sin to members of the church? Should I just have a don't ask and don't tell attitude? I know that the Bible says to confess your sins one to another, but that is the sin that gets condemned the most by other Christians. I don't know if I want to reveal that to them.
The Church is supposed to be where Christian's gather to worship, praise, and fellowship and encourage other believers..notice I said Christian's which means Christ followers..the thing is the church buildings have become social clubs and they have forgotten that Jesus can see every heart, thought, word and deed from every person..he sees our motives of why we do and say what we do..and he Never excuses sin ever..in the first chapter of Isaiah the Lord spoke his anger of people gathering in his name but their hearts were far from him..he even asked who told u to come here and then says get out wash yourself (he Is referring to our hearts) then to gather in his name..deal with your sin, admit it get rid of it ask the Lord to forgive u and cleanse u of your sins..Satan tempts each one of us with different sins, he knows what sin should take us down the wide path, but as a child of God it says draw nigh to God resist the devil and he will flee from u. Do not think that by going to a church building that it will save u from hell, the only one who can save u from hell is Jesus and he said he came to set us free, he does not leave us in our sins once we confess, repent and ask him to save us..so do not be deceived by false doctrine, search the truth in God's word for yourself, get right with God and he will show u the truth.
 
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aiki

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I am concerned, Introverted1293, by how many posts to this thread seriously soften or outright contradict the plain declaration of Scripture concerning homosexuality. It is sin. (Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) We all have impulses and/or attractions to things God has said are out-of-bounds morally. For some, they must resist the impulse to adultery, or general sexual promiscuity; for others, the impulse is to be greedy and materialistic; for still others, the struggle they have is against temper, or laziness, or envy; and so on. No one is totally free of an impulse or attraction toward something sinful. God, though, does not give us a pass on sin, He does not say a sin is okay, just because we feel its attraction powerfully and persistently. We are all to be learning to walk with God such that the power of these sinful impulses and attractions is broken and we live in consistent freedom from, and victory over, them.

A man could make the case that his lust for sex with women is a biological thing, a genetic imperative, and ought therefore to be exercised freely. But God does not agree. He commands the lustful man to reign himself in and confine his sexual activity to the marriage bed. The glutton could argue he has a genetic reason for wanting to eat and that, it being a "natural" impulse, ought not to be restrained. But God does not agree. He condemns the glutton and commands him to self-control in his eating. So, too, the man facing homosexual impulses. God does not agree that, because he believes he has found some vague genetic source for his impulse, it ought to be indulged. No, God says homosexuality is a sin and promises death as its "wages." (Romans 6:23; James 1:15)

Paul the apostle believed that people who had once practiced homosexuality were "new creatures in Christ," not homosexuals just pretending to be straight. And so he wrote,

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.


Paul did not think those Christians to whom he wrote who had been guilty of the sin of homosexuality were still homosexual. No, that's who they were - past tense. Being born again by God's Spirit they were now children of God, sanctified and justified by Him through Christ and the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit. And he expected them to live like it. Don't accept the World's fiercely-defended notion that if you have same-sex attraction that you are therefore irreversibly homosexual and will only be living a sham if you reject the attraction and live as a heterosexual person. That's a lie straight from the devil, as far as I'm concerned. I think Paul would agree with me. Resist, then, the idea that you are defined by this attraction. You aren't. If you are a child of God, you are a joint-heir with Christ, a new creature in him, and possess in him full freedom from the power and bondage of sin and the devil. This is really who you are. I pray you'll learn to live in the truth of it every day.

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
 
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Anthony2019

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I am concerned, Introverted1293, by how many posts to this thread seriously soften or outright contradict the plain declaration of scripture
hello Aiki. I don't think most of us here have been stating anything that contradicts scripture. The purpose of the majority of responses has not been to argue with what the Bible states or even to discuss the different theological interpretations of the texts. We are here to support the original poster with our prayers and our solidarity while he seeks the Lord to find the answers to his own questions. And whilst doing so, we are reaffirming the fact that he is a person of immense value to God and this is indeed supported by the scriptures.
 
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PloverWing

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Thank you very much. My thread was only based on fear. I haven't gone to church in a while.
I've been thinking about your post for a while, thinking about the fear you've expressed here. When I read your original post, I assumed you were active in a local church, and that you were trying to figure out how safe it was to confide in your fellow parishioners. I see now that you don't regularly attend church. May I assume that fear is part of that?

You are wise to be cautious in deciding whom to confide in. But it saddens me to think that you might be driven away from Christian worship over this. There are many churches that would welcome you without condemnation, who would support you in celibacy if that is your chosen path, and who would offer you either counselling or privacy (or both) as you figure out how best to follow Christ. My parish is one of those; there are many others. I hope you can find a church community that will support and encourage you in your life in Christ.
 
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tulipbee

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Recently I went to see a friend of mine who is gay and was in an ITU in hospital suffering from severe septic shock. At visiting time, the waiting room was crowded with his family, his friends and many people from his church who wanted to sit at his bedside, to pray with him and to comfort him. These were people whose lives were touched by his kindness and faithfulness over many, many years. He was a man who very much knew the love of Christ and was reflected in how he lived his life and blessed others. We were told that the prognosis was not good, but he thankfully made a full recovery and continues to be a real blessing to those who know him.
God does his work
 
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tulipbee

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Not everyone is, although the percentage of those not born "binary" is far smaller than their lobby efforts would have you believe.
I saw pictures of half and half. yeah, they have rights too.
you have one hermaphrodite and 5,000 gays find lame excuses to pretend like a hermaphrodite.
 
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Introverted1293

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The Church is supposed to be where Christian's gather to worship, praise, and fellowship and encourage other believers..notice I said Christian's which means Christ followers..the thing is the church buildings have become social clubs and they have forgotten that Jesus can see every heart, thought, word and deed from every person..he sees our motives of why we do and say what we do..and he Never excuses sin ever..in the first chapter of Isaiah the Lord spoke his anger of people gathering in his name but their hearts were far from him..he even asked who told u to come here and then says get out wash yourself (he Is referring to our hearts) then to gather in his name..deal with your sin, admit it get rid of it ask the Lord to forgive u and cleanse u of your sins..Satan tempts each one of us with different sins, he knows what sin should take us down the wide path, but as a child of God it says draw nigh to God resist the devil and he will flee from u. Do not think that by going to a church building that it will save u from hell, the only one who can save u from hell is Jesus and he said he came to set us free, he does not leave us in our sins once we confess, repent and ask him to save us..so do not be deceived by false doctrine, search the truth in God's word for yourself, get right with God and he will show u the truth.

That is so true. He does see what we do and he does know what is in a heart. I need to be reminded.
 
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Introverted1293

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I am concerned, Introverted1293, by how many posts to this thread seriously soften or outright contradict the plain declaration of Scripture concerning homosexuality. It is sin. (Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) We all have impulses and/or attractions to things God has said are out-of-bounds morally. For some, they must resist the impulse to adultery, or general sexual promiscuity; for others, the impulse is to be greedy and materialistic; for still others, the struggle they have is against temper, or laziness, or envy; and so on. No one is totally free of an impulse or attraction toward something sinful. God, though, does not give us a pass on sin, He does not say a sin is okay, just because we feel its attraction powerfully and persistently. We are all to be learning to walk with God such that the power of these sinful impulses and attractions is broken and we live in consistent freedom from, and victory over, them.

A man could make the case that his lust for sex with women is a biological thing, a genetic imperative, and ought therefore to be exercised freely. But God does not agree. He commands the lustful man to reign himself in and confine his sexual activity to the marriage bed. The glutton could argue he has a genetic reason for wanting to eat and that, it being a "natural" impulse, ought not to be restrained. But God does not agree. He condemns the glutton and commands him to self-control in his eating. So, too, the man facing homosexual impulses. God does not agree that, because he believes he has found some vague genetic source for his impulse, it ought to be indulged. No, God says homosexuality is a sin and promises death as its "wages." (Romans 6:23; James 1:15)

Paul the apostle believed that people who had once practiced homosexuality were "new creatures in Christ," not homosexuals just pretending to be straight. And so he wrote,

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.


Paul did not think those Christians to whom he wrote who had been guilty of the sin of homosexuality were still homosexual. No, that's who they were - past tense. Being born again by God's Spirit they were now children of God, sanctified and justified by Him through Christ and the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit. And he expected them to live like it. Don't accept the World's fiercely-defended notion that if you have same-sex attraction that you are therefore irreversibly homosexual and will only be living a sham if you reject the attraction and live as a heterosexual person. That's a lie straight from the devil, as far as I'm concerned. I think Paul would agree with me. Resist, then, the idea that you are defined by this attraction. You aren't. If you are a child of God, you are a joint-heir with Christ, a new creature in him, and possess in him full freedom from the power and bondage of sin and the devil. This is really who you are. I pray you'll learn to live in the truth of it every day.

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Thank you for adding which were some of you. You spoke the truth as well as Grace. Some, not all, Christians will point out the fact that practicing homosexuals cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, which is true, but a lot of times they fail to point out that it says which were some of you. So, thank you for that.

I want to be one of those people that's completely cleansed from my sin.

And thank you for not making me feel like I'm the worst sinner for struggling with a different kind of sin that most people struggle with. God bless

I am afraid to ask this question, for I am afraid that it's going to lead to a fight. But are you concerned because you feel that people are saying that my attraction is okay as long as I don't act on it? I don't know if that's what they are saying. But is that your concern?

Because my fear is that just having homosexual tendencies is sinful as well. But I am unsure if it is or not. I don't fully know the mind of God.
 
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Introverted1293

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I've been thinking about your post for a while, thinking about the fear you've expressed here. When I read your original post, I assumed you were active in a local church, and that you were trying to figure out how safe it was to confide in your fellow parishioners. I see now that you don't regularly attend church. May I assume that fear is part of that?

You are wise to be cautious in deciding whom to confide in. But it saddens me to think that you might be driven away from Christian worship over this. There are many churches that would welcome you without condemnation, who would support you in celibacy if that is your chosen path, and who would offer you either counselling or privacy (or both) as you figure out how best to follow Christ. My parish is one of those; there are many others. I hope you can find a church community that will support and encourage you in your life in Christ.

For your questions, I'm just starting to go to church. I haven't attend a church regularly. One of the reasons is because I have an extreme fear of wide open spaces. And I just received a mobile scooter with a canopy and it helps me get around.

Thank you very much. God bless
 
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Anthony2019

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I am afraid to ask this question, for I am afraid that it's going to lead to a fight. But are you concerned because you feel that people are saying that my attraction is okay as long as I don't act on it? I don't know if that's what they are saying. But is that your concern?

Because my fear is that just having homosexual tendencies is sinful as well. But I am unsure if it is or not. I don't fully know the mind of God

You will get different responses to this question depending on the method of exegesis used in interpreting the Bible.

As a Christian who seeks to understand the meaning of the scriptures through the lens of tradition, reason and experience, and a qualified nurse who agrees with the consensus of opinion in medical literature, I believe sexual orientation is for the most part fixed and unchangeable. I believe it is part of who they are. Therefore I am of the view that same sex attraction in itself is not sinful.

I also concur with the medical view that attempts to change sexual orientation can cause tremendous harm to the person involved.

With regard to practising homosexuality, I am very aware of the scriptures that appear to state that same sex activity is sinful and naturally this will cause people to be cautious when approaching the subject. These texts have given rise to a series of different interpretations, and if I am being honest I do not have the answer to this one.

Some Christians choose the path of celibacy and it is by no means an easy path to take. Humans are sexual beings and have an innate need for companionship, intimate relationships and expressing their love both physically and emotionally. Therefore I take very strong issue with people who state "well that's ok, be celibate" unless that is a path they have dared to venture themselves. I commend anyone who choses to remain celebate and would always support them if that is the path they feel they are being led to take. It is a path I have chosen myself for the same reason as you and it is not an easy one. It requires the renunciation of a way of life which others take seemingly for granted.

The bottom line is I do not believe homosexual inclinations or feelings to be sinful. Homosexual practice, that is acting on these feelings, is an area which theologically I do not have an answer. Even if it is a sin, I believe that Christ is a lot kinder to sinners than some of his followers.
 
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aiki

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I am afraid to ask this question, for I am afraid that it's going to lead to a fight. But are you concerned because you feel that people are saying that my attraction is okay as long as I don't act on it? I don't know if that's what they are saying. But is that your concern?

No, not really. Let me ask you this: Is it kinder, more gracious and loving, for a doctor to tell his patient that he has cancer, or not? Is his patient really helped if the doctor says nothing to him about his disease? His patient won't feel the fear, and sorrow, and stress of knowing he is deathly ill. But his cancer will kill him, if he remains ignorant to his problem and does nothing about it. So, which is, ultimately, the better thing to do? Tell the patient the hard, scary truth or let him go on, blissfully ignorant, to an early grave?

My concern is that some on this thread think the diagnosis of sin is too harsh and unpleasant and would rather pretend it won't produce the death God promises in His word that it will. No, they'd rather virtue signal and make out like homosexuality isn't sin - even using vague scientific research to justify doing so - than speak the difficult but necessary truth.

Having a sinful impulse or attraction isn't itself a wicked thing. It is how you respond to it that may or may not be sinful. Fantasizing about homosexual relations, encouraging the homosexual impulse or attraction in any way, is sin.

Every Christian is commanded by God to take every thought captive and bring each one into obedience to Christ. You are not your own, the apostle Paul wrote, you have been bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body and spirit which are His. Doing so begins by keeping careful watch and control over your thought life. Bring your thoughts into conformity to God's truth, not the World's.

See Philippians 4:8.

Praying for you!
 
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Anthony2019

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My concern is that some on this thread think the diagnosis of sin is too harsh and unpleasant and would rather pretend it won't produce the death God promises in His word that it will. No, they'd rather virtue signal and make out like homosexuality isn't sin - even using vague scientific research to justify doing so - than speak the difficult but necessary truth.
I think you are being a little unfair here Aiki. No-one here is stating that sin is not a serious issue. Of course it is!
With respect, I would disagree with your assertion that scientific research is "vague". Nearly every medical professional organisation agrees that homosexual orientation is fixed and unchangeable and their views are backed up by empirical scientific research which goes back over many decades.
The reason I am hesistant to "speak the difficult and necessary truth", in the manner you have suggested, is that when dealing with a very difficult topic which has a tremendous, far-reaching emotional impact on people's lives, I do not dare to presume that I have all the answers.
Having a sinful impulse or attraction isn't itself a wicked thing. It is how you respond to it that may or may not be sinful. Fantasizing about homosexual relations, encouraging the homosexual impulse or attraction in any way, is sin.
I agree with you that having a homosexual attraction or tendency in itself is not sinful. I also agree with you that we should be cautious about translating our feelings and impulse into practice.
Every Christian is commanded by God to take every thought captive and bring each one into obedience to Christ. You are not your own, the apostle Paul wrote, you have been bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body and spirit which are His. Doing so begins by keeping careful watch and control over your thought life. Bring your thoughts into conformity to God's truth, not the World's.
Agreed.

See Philippians 4:8.

Praying for you![/QUOTE]
 
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aiki

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With respect, I would disagree with your assertion that scientific research is "vague". Nearly every medical professional organisation agrees that homosexual orientation is fixed and unchangeable and their views are backed up by empirical scientific research which goes back over many decades.

I am familiar with the research and an unbiased consideration of it does not, I believe, support the idea that homosexuality is a biological imperative. Increasingly, research into homosexuality is revealing that it is far more psycho-social in origin than biological. But there is enormous cultural inertia behind the notion that homosexuality is an unchangeable "orientation" - sufficient to obscure the truth about homosexuality very effectively.

The reason I am hesistant to "speak the difficult and necessary truth", in the manner you have suggested, is that when dealing with a very difficult topic which has a tremendous, far-reaching emotional impact on people's lives, I do not dare to presume that I have all the answers.

The Bible is not reluctant to declare homosexuality sin. (Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-29; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Christians ought not to be, either. All sin has a "tremendous, far-reaching impact on people's lives." We show no love, then, to the sinner - homosexual or otherwise - when we diminish this fact by way of "I don't have all the answers."
 
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Anthony2019

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I am familiar with the research and an unbiased consideration of it does not, I believe, support the idea that homosexuality is a biological imperative. Increasingly, research into homosexuality is revealing that is far more psycho-social in origin than biological. But there is enormous cultural inertia behind the notion that homosexuality is an unchangeable "orientation" - sufficient to obscure the truth about homosexuality very effectively.
It is part of my job to be familiar with the research and keep up to date with my practice. The consensus, as I read it, is that homosexuality is fixed and unchangeable in most cases, although of course there is much more research to be done.
The Bible is not reluctant to declare homosexuality sin. (Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-29; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Christians ought not to be, either. All sin has a "tremendous, far-reaching impact on people's lives." We show no love, then, to the sinner - homosexual or otherwise - when we diminish this fact by way of "I don't have all the answers."
I am not seeking to diminish anything, but equally I see no shame in admitting that I don't have all the answers. I seek to love my neighbour as myself, as Christ commanded. I admit I am not always very good at it, and still have a lot to learn! :) Part of that learning is being slow to judge and listening to others' stories and experiences.
 
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