Fair enough, I guess the disagreement about whether or not people’s name can be removed from the book of life is trivial when it comes to salvation. I agree with everything you stated above.
This is tough, especially having read the scriptures on it. Your view makes a lot of sense, my reasoning for my view though is because I’ve seen and read accounts of people who have experienced Jesus showing them Heaven and in those accounts when people turned away from God their names were erased until they repented and turned back. What I’m talking about is literal turning away and then having to turn back not the act of sinning and then asking for forgiveness I think personally that there is much Grace given in terms of time to repent, but if someone chose to deliberately not ask for forgiveness and turn away from the faith or even be a lukewarm Christian they risk being removed from the book of life or “spit out” as it says He will do in Revelation to those who choose to remain luke warm.
Do you know people who trust in works for salvation? I have yet to meet a Christian who does. What I do meet is those who trust in their theology that they are saved and going to Heaven no matter how they behave and even loving God is an optional extra.
You will not meet a genuine Christian who trusts in works for salvation, but I have met numerous "nominal" Christians who are trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. I've met such people in person and on various Christian forums. I grew up in the Roman Catholic church, had temporarily attended the church of Christ and my wife grew up in the RLDS church (similar to LDS - Mormons). All three of these churches teach that man is saved by faith and works. I'm yet to meet any genuine Christians who say that loving God is an optional extra, doesn't really matter if you do or don't/some do, some don't etc.. which is contrary to (1 John 4:7-8) or just live like the devil and you will still be saved regardless, which is contrary to (1 John 3:7-10).
Do you know the difference between loving God and loving man? Do you think God is so egoistic as to pour love in the hearts of his children for Himself??!!!
1 John 4:19-21 - We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. Believers love God because they belong to him and not in order to belong to Him. Love is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.
Because means it’s a rational response. He doesn’t make us love Him. If he did, no “because” would be necessary.
All true but doesn’t address the question.
Jesus said those who love Him obey him. He didn’t say those who belong to him love him. If a man thinks God makes believers love Him and assume that will happen, they will never know what it is to love God as God defined it.
God gave it as a commandment. Commandments are legal requirements. He never said it just springs without any effort or choice at all.
It's not about God making or forcing us to love Him. Christian love is from God (Romans 5:5) and was demonstrated supremely in the cross. (John 3:16; Romans 5:8) God's love takes the initiative and the love of Christians is in response to that love. (1 John 4:19)
It did for me.
Yes, those who love Jesus obey Him. He didn't say those who belong to Him don't love Him. In 1 Corinthians 6:22, we read - If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come! Do you believe that - "does not love the Lord Jesus Christ...is accursed" = belongs to Him?
I never said that God makes/forces believers to love Him or that this love springs up without any effort or choice at all. Believers have the received the love of God in their hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to them (Romans 5:5) and believers are new creations in Christ. Old things have passed away and all things have become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17) Praise the Lord!
Doesn't mean we do not have to choose to love others. Jesus told us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Why didn't he just say that love is from God and the above so no worries?
If you just pull out Bible text and never apply them to real life, it doesn't. Jesus commanded us to love one another. A command. He did not say it is an outcome so no need to try or curb our desires for the sake of others.
The second makes no sense. Why would Jesus say those who belong to Him do not love him??
Again, I have no idea why you are writing the above. Those who love Jesus do not sing songs about how much they love Jesus but they obey Him. It is that simple. The degree we love Jesus is measured by Jesus in how often we obey Him. It is that simple. It is not how much feeling we have inside while certain music is playing.In 1 Corinthians 6:22, we read - If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come! Do you believe that - "does not love the Lord Jesus Christ...is accursed" = belongs to Him?
"Let us stir one another up to do good deeds." It does not happen automatically. But the above is really worse news for some. If we do not obey God, we do not know God and worse, we are not born of God. All depends upon obeying the Lord Jesus in one's life. That is the degree of love.1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
So do you believe the love of God springs up without any effort or choice or not? YOu keep quoting me verses like it is there without effort. Do you have to ever choose to love people against our own desires or it that something that has passed away and you have become new and everyone around you says you are never selfish and always love others as you love yourself or more?I never said that God makes/forces believers to love Him or that this love springs up without any effort or choice at all. Believers have the received the love of God in their hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to them (Romans 5:5) and believers are new creations in Christ. Old things have passed away and all things have become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17) Praise the Lord!
Of course there is a struggle against sin. Galatians 5:17 - For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. The struggle is real! No argument there. God certainly has done His part, which is a big part and apart from it, we would not have been born again and became new creations in Christ and would have remained dead in trespasses.
It does not happen automatically, yet all genuine Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. Those who produce no good deeds at all are not truly converted. It's the same for those who do not obey God at all. Not truly converted. There are varying degrees of obedience and love and none of us are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, perfectly obedient 100% of the time.
That was in response to your statement, "He didn’t say those who belong to him love him."
"Losing Salvation" doesn't make logical sense. It cannot be logically said of a person that he has been saved from a future event, the heaven/hell judgement, if at some point he can become unsaved from that event. If salvation can be lost one can only say of a person that he has the possibility of being saved from that event, but not the he has been saved.
It's simple. And no one has to "convince themself" of anything.
