Infallible Words

Tree of Life · Apr 26, 2019

"The only infallible word we possess, and demanding for that reason unreserved and whole-hearted commitment, is the Word of God deposited for us in the Scriptures."

- Dr. John Murray

Infallible words are not just words that cannot be false. They are also perfect words - so far as language can be perfect. Human language is always incomplete and there are limits to language. But within these limits, infallible words could not be said better in another way. Infallible words are the ultimate words by which all other words are judged and measured.

The Bible is infallible words. What the Bible says could not be said better in any other way.

Children of the Reformation believe, as Dr. Murray said above, that the words of the Bible are the only infallible words we have. Teachings of the church might be useful, true, worthy of consideration, etc. But are they ever infallible? Could they never be improved upon? There are some who believe that we have more infallible words than just the words of Scripture. If this is you, are you suggesting that these other infallible words (official dictates of the Pope, catechisms, the rulings of councils, etc) could never be improved upon? If they could be improved upon, then they are not infallible. But if they are infallible, as some say, then they could never be improved upon.

Thanks

Noxot · Apr 26, 2019

if it is with God then it is good.

John 14:12-20 (YLT)
14:12 `Verily, verily, I say to you, he who is believing in me, the works that I do--that one also shall do, and greater than these he shall do, because I go on to my Father;

14:13 and whatever ye may ask in my name, I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son;

14:14 if ye ask anything in my name I will do it .

14:15 `If ye love me, my commands keep,

14:16 and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you--to the age;

14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.

14:18 `I will not leave you bereaved, I come unto you;

14:19 yet a little, and the world doth no more behold me, and ye behold me, because I live, and ye shall live;

14:20 in that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you;

childeye 2 · Apr 26, 2019

I don't think our current language is ever perfectly representing spiritual sentiments. It seems to me that since the Word of God is Spirit the word "God" falls short of perfectly articulating Him.

Monk Brendan · Apr 26, 2019

childeye 2 said:
I don't think our current language is ever perfectly representing spiritual sentiments. It seems to me that since the Word of God is Spirit the word "God" falls short of perfectly articulating Him.

This is what "apophatic theology" in Eastern Christianity means.

childeye 2 · Apr 26, 2019

Monk Brendan said:
This is what "apophatic theology" in Eastern Christianity means.

I don't understand. Is "Father" an approach to God that would indicate this type of theology? Or is it about God being unknowable, or perhaps indescribable, inexpressible?

trophy33 · Apr 27, 2019

Tree of Life said:
The Bible is infallible words. What the Bible says could not be said better in any other way.

Not words, but spiritual teachings behind those words. Bible contain many words that are a reflection of what ancient people thought about some topic. Kidneys as the centre of thoughts, flat earth on pillars, firmanent, lights in firmanent, falling stars etc.

Apologetic_Warrior · Apr 27, 2019

childeye 2 said:
I don't think our current language is ever perfectly representing spiritual sentiments. It seems to me that since the Word of God is Spirit the word "God" falls short of perfectly articulating Him.

Maybe the Spiritual teachings of Scripture transcend infallibility into the realm of objective truth, ya? I must confess I am not fond of arguments which suggest human language is inadequate. God created man in his image, God gave man languages. All intelligibility comes from God himself. Scripture came to us originating from the mind of God in both verbal tradition and written tradition through his chosen human authors. It makes little sense to suggest God would give man language and his revelation of himself would a.) not be in manners man can comprehend, and b.) not also be a reflection of his character.

Noxot · Apr 27, 2019

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Maybe the Spiritual teachings of Scripture transcend infallibility into the realm of objective truth, ya? I must confess I am not fond of arguments which suggest human language is inadequate. God created man in his image, God gave man languages. All intelligibility comes from God himself. Scripture came to us originating from the mind of God in both verbal tradition and written tradition through his chosen human authors. It makes little sense to suggest God would give man language and his revelation of himself would a.) not be in manners man can comprehend, and b.) not also be a reflection of his character.

but man changes and so Gods interaction with man might be different. mans eyes might improve or get worse. man might develop his language and wisdom. God is speaking to weak and limited man, how much of his glory can we take?

Apologetic_Warrior · Apr 27, 2019

Noxot said:
but man changes and so Gods interaction with man might be different.

However God does not change, I do agree though about God interacting with different men differently, for example, Moses is the only man I know of whom God spoke to through a burning bush. In this manner his interaction with God is unique.

Noxot said:
mans eyes might improve or get worse.

Yes but who made the eye?

Noxot said:
man might develop his language and wisdom.

True man has developed some languages, and like man those languages change, the English language a prime example. As for wisdom, has God not made foolish the wisdom of this world? Has he not chosen the foolish things to confound the wise?

Noxot said:
God is speaking to weak and limited man, how much of his glory can we take?

That is a good question to which I honestly have no answer, I could only look to manifestations of his glory and Scripture and wonder if I could handle the same experience, or if I would even want to. I used to think it would not be alarming for Angels to appear to me, but I now think such an experience would turn me white as a ghost, probably be frightening because it would be so far out of the ordinary, regular, day to day experiences.

Monk Brendan · Apr 27, 2019

childeye 2 said:
I don't understand. Is "Father" an approach to God that would indicate this type of theology? Or is it about God being unknowable, or perhaps indescribable, inexpressible?

The latter.

Even "FAther" is not accurate, because Divine Paternity is beyond earthly fatherhood.

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

childeye 2 said:
I don't think our current language is ever perfectly representing spiritual sentiments. It seems to me that since the Word of God is Spirit the word "God" falls short of perfectly articulating Him.

Yes language is always imperfect. But do you believe that the words of Scripture could be said any better?

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

Monk Brendan said:
The latter.

Even "FAther" is not accurate, because Divine Paternity is beyond earthly fatherhood.

Is it the church's job to improve the words of Scripture and correct these inaccuracies?

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

myst33 said:
Not words, but spiritual teachings behind those words. Bible contain many words that are a reflection of what ancient people thought about some topic. Kidneys as the centre of thoughts, flat earth on pillars, firmanent, lights in firmanent, falling stars etc.

Could the truths being conveyed in Scripture be said better than how the Bible says them?

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

Apologetic_Warrior said:
I must confess I am not fond of arguments which suggest human language is inadequate. God created man in his image, God gave man languages. All intelligibility comes from God himself. Scripture came to us originating from the mind of God in both verbal tradition and written tradition through his chosen human authors. It makes little sense to suggest God would give man language and his revelation of himself would a.) not be in manners man can comprehend, and b.) not also be a reflection of his character.

I don't mind saying that human language is inadequate. We cannot fully comprehend God with language. But we can apprehend him with language. The interesting thing is, though, is that we only know that human language is inadequate because the Bible tells us that human language is inadequate.

Psalms 40:5 - You have multiplied, O LORD my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you! I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

Noxot said:
God is speaking to weak and limited man, how much of his glory can we take?

To say that the Bible is perfect words is not to say that the Bible gives us a complete understanding of God. Even the Bible itself tells us that it does not (Deuteronomy 29:29). But the truths that the Bible does communicate - could these things be said any better using different words? Or does the Bible use the best words?

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

Monk Brendan said:
Even "FAther" is not accurate, because Divine Paternity is beyond earthly fatherhood.

Also, do you know this because the Bible told you or do you know this because a theologian later came along and improved upon Scripture?

trophy33 · Apr 27, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Could the truths being conveyed in Scripture be said better than how the Bible says them?

Of course. We do not think with our kidneys, earth is not flat with a firm dome over it, heaven is not above the firmanent, stars, moon or sun are not lights in the firmanent, stars do not fall etc.

But spiritually, nothing would change/be improved if we would use better medical/biological/atmospherical/astronomical terms.

bling · Apr 27, 2019

Tree of Life said:
"The only infallible word we possess, and demanding for that reason unreserved and whole-hearted commitment, is the Word of God deposited for us in the Scriptures."

- Dr. John Murray

Infallible words are not just words that cannot be false. They are also perfect words - so far as language can be perfect. Human language is always incomplete and there are limits to language. But within these limits, infallible words could not be said better in another way. Infallible words are the ultimate words by which all other words are judged and measured.

The Bible is infallible words. What the Bible says could not be said better in any other way.

Children of the Reformation believe, as Dr. Murray said above, that the words of the Bible are the only infallible words we have. Teachings of the church might be useful, true, worthy of consideration, etc. But are they ever infallible? Could they never be improved upon? There are some who believe that we have more infallible words than just the words of Scripture. If this is you, are you suggesting that these other infallible words (official dictates of the Pope, catechisms, the rulings of councils, etc) could never be improved upon? If they could be improved upon, then they are not infallible. But if they are infallible, as some say, then they could never be improved upon.

Thanks

Muslims believe the Quran is infallible word exactly what God said, so they:

1. Must only read it in the language it was given in and translating it would be profaning it.

2. The words themselves are perfect and really the only evidence we have been given for the Muslim God.

3. The Muslim virtually worship the Quran itself.

4. It cannot really be copied or rewritten by a just anyone for fear of changing just one word.

God did not want us “worship” a book.

God did not want us to have to learn a dead language.

God did not want us to feel inhibited concerning copying as best we can, carrying it any where or any how and not feel we needed to run in a burning building to protect it.

The Bible is just a tool for Christians and not “the” proof for the Christian God.

God wants the unbelieving sinner to be presented Christ in the flesh of a believer and not be handed a book.

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

myst33 said:
Of course. We do not think with our kidneys, earth is not flat with a firm dome over it, heaven is not above the firmanent, stars, moon or sun are not lights in the firmanent, stars do not fall etc.

This sounds to me like you reject the infallibility of Scripture. Do you?

Tree of Life · Apr 27, 2019

bling said:
The Bible is just a tool for Christians and not “the” proof for the Christian God.

God wants the unbelieving sinner to be presented Christ in the flesh of a believer and not be handed a book.

This sounds like a low view of the Bible. Do you believe the Bible is God's word? Do you believe the Bible is infallible?

Infallible Words

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