Has the modern church lost its balance on grace?

Gideons300 · Apr 26, 2019

It has become a common occurrence in the modern church to expose and condemn legalism, with people trying (and failing) to reign in the flesh by some sort of list made up of "Thou shalts..." and "Thou shalt not's". And that is wonderful, for it is by grace that we are saved, not of works lest any man should boast.

But something has been bothering me for a while now. Is it just me, or do you think it is possible that is our effort to magnify grace, we may be missing something...... the part where we are all called to follow Him, and seek Him and obey Him with all our hearts...... fervently?

For every verse about grace, I suspect there are two that are urging us to a deeper intimacy with Jesus, or warning us to not give place to the devil for he is fixed on stealing from us.

Paul talks about running our race as if there is but one prize. He exhorts CHRISTIANS to make their calling and election sure..... by enduring to the end. He tells us that it is our reasonable service to present ourselves as living sacrifices. Whoa.

James tells us that friendship with the world is enmity against God. He says that a double minded man is unstable in all of His ways and likens it to adultery against God.

Peter tells us to sober and vigilant, for our enemy goes about seeking whom he may devour.

Jesus Himself said that if we lose our lives for His sake, we save them. He says that we are His friends if we do whatsoever He commands us. unfortunately the opposite of both is true as well.

The question is.... do we have ears to hear? Do we want more? Do we believe it is even possible? How can we come to such a place? Listen, We must first hate our carnal lower nature..... what we consider "the normal us". Ouch.

Our understanding of Christianity is out of balance, don't you think? Why would there be warnings and exhortations against willful sin, or worldliness, lukewarmness, or being double minded literally throughout the New Testament? Have they now become of not applicable to us enlightened ones?
Grace trumps all, right?

How small (and quiet) the crowd that says we still need to pay heed to all of God's words to us, the goodnesss AND the severity? And no wonder. the ones bold enough to question our lack of balance are immediately labeled and shamed as heretics and legalists. They are told this is the new gospel, a grace so deep there is no need for balance, or even obedience. Free means free of all those pesky rules!

Hmmmmmm. Have we come to such a deep revelation of grace that we think that we can (of course, we WON'T) sin any sin, and not even necessarily repent, and STILL our names are already etched into the Lamb's book of life and cannot be removed? We need to think again.

What we are witnessing, and for the majority a part of, satan's finest masterstrokes. Magnify grace. Minimize sin and its consequences. Do you know what God calls it?

Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.

To all who read these words, I beseech you, get before the Lord and prayerfully seek Him. Examine yourselves whether you are "in the faith" with both sides of the gospel. We are promised that if we will judge ourselves, we will not be judged. Ask yourself if the fellowship you are a part of is balanced, and found encouraging you to go deeper, to learn how to actually abide in Christ, where He promises we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Are you lulled into an ever deepening assurance that Heaven is yours or are you told that willful sin is death?

Listen guys. We have been given much. Lest we forget, to whom much is given, much is required. Amen?

*crickets*

blessings, Gids

(Now if you find such a commitment scares the heck out of you and that you fear you will fail or feel it too confining, may I promise you that He will move mountains in these last days to take us, change us, fill us and use us as lights leading others to Him?

The Bible does not call it "the glorious liberty of the children of God" for nothing. We are about to have our feet planted on the highway of holiness, but first we have to see that the road we are on is circular and our lives are passing, but we are getting nowhere, and worst of all, we have been brainwashed into thinking this is perfectly normal. May I humbly tell you.... it may appear normal. But if you stay on that path, it will lead you away from the light of life.

Time to wake up! Live, bones, live.

blessings, Gideon

Monk Brendan · Apr 26, 2019

Gideons300 said:
It has become a common occurrence in the modern church to expose and condemn legalism, with people trying (and failing) to reign in the flesh by some sort of list made up of "Thou shalts..." and "Thou shalt not's". And that is wonderful, for it is by grace that we are saved, not of works lest any man should boast.

But something has been bothering me for a while now. Is it just me, or do you think it is possible that is our effort to magnify grace, we may be missing something...... the part where we are all called to follow Him, and seek Him and obey Him with all our hearts...... fervently?

For every verse about grace, I suspect there are two that are urging us to a deeper intimacy with Jesus, or warning us to not give place to the devil for he is fixed on stealing from us.

Paul talks about running our race as if there is but one prize. He exhorts CHRISTIANS to make their calling and election sure..... by enduring to the end. He tells us that it is our reasonable service to present ourselves as living sacrifices. Whoa.

James tells us that friendship with the world is enmity against God. He says that a double minded man is unstable in all of His ways and likens it to adultery against God.

Peter tells us to sober and vigilant, for our enemy goes about seeking whom he may devour.

Jesus Himself said that if we lose our lives for His sake, we save them. He says that we are His friends if we do whatsoever He commands us. unfortunately the opposite of both is true as well.

The question is.... do we have ears to hear? Do we want more? Do we believe it is even possible? How can we come to such a place? Listen, We must first hate our carnal lower nature..... what we consider "the normal us". Ouch.

Our understanding of Christianity is out of balance, don't you think? Why would there be warnings and exhortations against willful sin, or worldliness, lukewarmness, or being double minded literally throughout the New Testament? Have they now become of not applicable to us enlightened ones?
Grace trumps all, right?

How small (and quiet) the crowd that says we still need to pay heed to all of God's words to us, the goodnesss AND the severity? And no wonder. the ones bold enough to question our lack of balance are immediately labeled and shamed as heretics and legalists. They are told this is the new gospel, a grace so deep there is no need for balance, or even obedience. Free means free of all those pesky rules!

Hmmmmmm. Have we come to such a deep revelation of grace that we think that we can (of course, we WON'T) sin any sin, and not even necessarily repent, and STILL our names are already etched into the Lamb's book of life and cannot be removed? We need to think again.

What we are witnessing, and for the majority a part of, satan's finest masterstrokes. Magnify grace. Minimize sin and its consequences. Do you know what God calls it?

Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.

To all who read these words, I beseech you, get before the Lord and prayerfully seek Him. Examine yourselves whether you are "in the faith" with both sides of the gospel. We are promised that if we will judge ourselves, we will not be judged. Ask yourself if the fellowship you are a part of is balanced, and found encouraging you to go deeper, to learn how to actually abide in Christ, where He promises we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Are you lulled into an ever deepening assurance that Heaven is yours or are you told that willful sin is death?

Listen guys. We have been given much. Lest we forget, to whom much is given, much is required. Amen?

*crickets*

blessings, Gids

(Now if you find such a commitment scares the heck out of you and that you fear you will fail or feel it too confining, may I promise you that He will move mountains in these last days to take us, change us, fill us and use us as lights leading others to Him?

The Bible does not call it "the glorious liberty of the children of God" for nothing. We are about to have our feet planted on the highway of holiness, but first we have to see that the road we are on is circular and our lives are passing, but we are getting nowhere, and worst of all, we have been brainwashed into thinking this is perfectly normal. May I humbly tell you.... it may appear normal. But if you stay on that path, it will lead you away from the light of life.

Time to wake up! Live, bones, live.

blessings, Gideon

Now you understand why the Pre0reformation churches observe Great Lent.

Gideons300 · Apr 26, 2019

Here is the part of the works vs grace argument that we forget.... or want to, lol. Both James and Paul agreed upon being saved by grace alone. How do I know? Because there is one gospel, one truth, and both were apostles, servants who pleased the Lord.

When James tells us that faith without works is dead, red flags waved by legalist hunters immediately try to make them in disagreement. They were not.

There is a far bigger problem here than getting mired in legalism. And what is it? it is the truth that IF we are rooted into Him, growing up into Him in ALL things, works WILL follow us. Fruits of the Spirit WILL appear on us. Darkness WILL disappear from our lives.

Now if that is not happening as we walk with God, then listen up. Something is BADLY amiss. So when James tells us faith without the accompanying "works" resulting from our faith, then we need to quickly examine why at all costs. It is THAT important.

Blessings, Gids

Gideons300 · Apr 26, 2019

Monk Brendan said:
Now you understand why the Pre0reformation churches observe Great Lent.

This is not a denominational thing. This is a heart thing. Just us and the Lord.

Either we are fully surrendered or we are not. Either we are. walking as overcomers or as the overcome. Either we long to be free from sin and self or we are quite content with things exactly the way they are, proud of our denomination's deeper understanding.

Again, do we have ears to hear?

blessings, Gids

Monk Brendan · Apr 26, 2019

Gideons300 said:
This is not a denominational thing. This is a heart thing. Just us and the Lord.

Either we are fully surrendered or we are not. Either we are. walking as overcomers or as the overcome. Either we long to be free from sin and self or we are quite content with things exactly the way they are, proud of our denomination's deeper understanding.

Again, do we have ears to hear?

blessings, Gids

Fasting is to help us overcome.

Jeshu · Apr 26, 2019

i agree brother grace without seeing our sin is not grace at all but a licence to remain in sin. This happens a lot in our modern Churches. Indeed we are all guilty one way or another for we are all sinners and being saved by Christ does not make us sinless but He saves us from our sins!

It is a process, the dirt of my heart must be cultivated to receive the good seed. That is what grace is for. To dig up our dirt a bit and for God to sow the good seed in our heart and for good fruits to materialise.

Ultimately grace leads to either repentance or to the lawless one(s). The lawless ones keep sinning without lasting remorse. The lawless ones are the goats with very big I's who enjoy doing it wrong. However those who repent get away from the sin that ensnared them, even if that takes some time, and are sanctified in that manner along the way. These are humble Christians who know what being saved by grace is all about for they enter God's rest and escape their sinful nature ever day again.

It is about relationship. When we see our sin and go to God for grace so that we may stop doing that then we love Him for grace and the love for God will cast dead sin in us - time and again. If however we don't build a relationship with Him but let our sin keep standing in the way then such will be an unfulfilled life and God's good life will not grow and we will bear little or no fruit. Such Christians miss out on the good thing big time.

It is written in the bible that those who sin shall die, so staying in sin can never bring us eternal good life. Rather life in sin will perish. Those who fight their sin rejoice at that prospect, but those who love sin cringe at that prospect.

So yes only God's truth shall set us free and whom the son sets free is free indeed.

topher694 · Apr 26, 2019

This is because the a large percentage of the church today have a limited or wrong understanding of what grace truly is. They see it as the opposite of works and thereby against them. But they are not opposites. The principles of God are not adversarial towards one another. Rather, they complement one another.

1stcenturylady · Apr 27, 2019

For a few centuries now, the lie that grace is a license to sin with no rules has plagued the Church, and is seen in every denomination, whether Calvinism or Arminianism. They have turned the grace of God into licentiousness. But are they really wrong if the true definition of grace is "unmerited favor"? If we are no longer under the law, but under grace, then isn't breaking the law without condemnation okay for those who believe in Jesus? Isn't it the law we are free from?

But unmerited favor is NOT the definition of the apostles for God's grace. To understand the apostle's writings, you must think like a Jew, and understand Semitic writing styles. One style is called parallelism, saying the same thing twice for clarity. Here is an example that specifically concerns God's grace.

Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

The conclusion: God's grace is God's POWER given to us when we are baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again of the Spirit of Christ. It is NOT the righteous requirements of the law we are free from; it is sin, itself, we are free from. Romans 6:2 "we are dead to sin."

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (Modern versions do not include this highlighted condition. Thus the misinterpretation and the lie of unmerited favor is born.) 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 8:34-36
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (We are free from SIN! Not free TO sin!)

1 John 3:5-9

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

topher694 · Apr 27, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
For a few centuries now, the lie that grace is a license to sin with no rules has plagued the Church, and is seen in every denomination, whether Calvinism or Arminianism. They have turned the grace of God into licentiousness. But are they really wrong if the true definition of grace is "unmerited favor"? If we are no longer under the law, but under grace, then isn't breaking the law without condemnation okay for those who believe in Jesus? Isn't it the law we are free from?

But unmerited favor is not the definition of the apostles for God's grace. To understand the apostle's writings, you must think like a Jew, and understand Semitic writing styles. One style is called parallelism, saying the same thing twice for clarity. Here is an example that specifically concerns God's grace.

Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

The conclusion: God's grace is God's POWER given to us when we are baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again of the Spirit of Christ. It is NOT the righteous requirements of the law we are free from; it is sin, itself, we are free from. Romans 6:2 "we are dead to sin."

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (Modern versions do not include this highlighted condition. Thus the misinterpretation and the lie of unmerited favor is born.) 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 8:34-36
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (We are free from SIN! Not free TO sin!)

1 John 3:5-9

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Exactly. Where anointing is power that is external, grace is power that is internal.

1stcenturylady · Apr 27, 2019

topher694 said:
This is because the a large percentage of the church today have a limited or wrong understanding of what grace truly is. The see it as the opposite of works and thereby against them. But they are not opposites. The principles of God are not adversarial towards one another. Rather, they complement one another.

Right, it is no longer our imperfect self-effort type works; with the Holy Spirit's power, He works through us, doing His Own will. There must be works, for faith without works is dead, it just who/Who is in charge of those works.

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2019

Grace is the unmerited favor of God in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:6 - "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

We are saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves it is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Galatians 2:21 - "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9 - "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

Yet God's grace (enabling power) operates sovereignly in the lives of believers.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

1stcenturylady · Apr 27, 2019

Danthemailman said:
Grace is the unmerited favor of God in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:6 - "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

We are saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves it is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Galatians 2:21 - "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9 - "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

Yet God's grace (enabling power) operates sovereignly in the lives of believers.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

Hi, Dan,

I have a completely different understanding of grace according to the apostles. It's too long to rewrite, so please read #8 above.

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
For a few centuries now, the lie that grace is a license to sin with no rules has plagued the Church, and is seen in every denomination, whether Calvinism or Arminianism. They have turned the grace of God into licentiousness. But are they really wrong if the true definition of grace is "unmerited favor"? If we are no longer under the law, but under grace, then isn't breaking the law without condemnation okay for those who believe in Jesus? Isn't it the law we are free from?

But unmerited favor is NOT the definition of the apostles for God's grace. To understand the apostle's writings, you must think like a Jew, and understand Semitic writing styles. One style is called parallelism, saying the same thing twice for clarity. Here is an example that specifically concerns God's grace.

Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

The conclusion: God's grace is God's POWER given to us when we are baptized in the Holy Spirit and born again of the Spirit of Christ. It is NOT the righteous requirements of the law we are free from; it is sin, itself, we are free from. Romans 6:2 "we are dead to sin."

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (Modern versions do not include this highlighted condition. Thus the misinterpretation and the lie of unmerited favor is born.) 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 8:34-36
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (We are free from SIN! Not free TO sin!)

1 John 3:5-9

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

God's grace is not merited and it's not a license to sin. God's grace is also not something that merely makes it possible for us to be saved by works or through sinless perfection. Do you believe that you live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) and do you also believe that will be the basis or means by which you will obtain eternal life?

Strong's Concordance #5485
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness. - Strong's Greek: 5485. χάρις (charis) -- grace, kindness

Ephesians 2:8 - (AMPC) For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] *Does that sound like merited favor to you? -- "Saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." - Clearly unmerited.

BTW - Walking according to the Spirit is descriptive of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit.

*I already mentioned that grace is God's enabling power and I also quoted 1 Corinthians 12:9 just as you did. You seem hung up over whether grace is merited or unmerited. Those who teach salvation by grace through faith + works/merited performance/sinless perfection etc.. will naturally reject unmerited.

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
For a few centuries now, the lie that grace is a license to sin with no rules has plagued the Church, and is seen in every denomination, whether Calvinism or Arminianism. They have turned the grace of God into licentiousness. But are they really wrong if the true definition of grace is "unmerited favor"? If we are no longer under the law, but under grace, then isn't breaking the law without condemnation okay for those who believe in Jesus? Isn't it the law we are free from? But unmerited favor is NOT the definition of the apostles for God's grace.

Turning the grace of God into licentiousness is not the only thing that has plagued the Church over the centuries. The pendulum also gets swung too far in the other direction which leads to over compensation and results in salvation by works/merited performance/sinless perfection. I did not say that "unmerited favor" is the definition of grace, yet grace is unmerited in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. (Romans 3:23; 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

I certainly DO NOT turn the grace of God into licentiousness.

In Jude 4, we read - For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

*In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

1stcenturylady · Apr 27, 2019

Danthemailman said:
Turning the grace of God into licentiousness is not the only thing that has plagued the Church over the centuries. The pendulum also gets swung too far in the other direction which leads to over compensation and results in salvation by works/merited performance/sinless perfection. I did not say that "unmerited favor" is the definition of grace, yet grace is unmerited in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. (Romans 3:23; 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

I certainly DO NOT turn the grace of God into licentiousness.

In Jude 4, we read - For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

*In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1).

I stand by my post, because it confirms the Word or God, and not liberal Reformationists who closed your mind, who say "We will always sin, so Sin boldly, for you are quite a sinner!" Jesus frees us FROM sin, not just from the law so we can be free TO sin. I repeat: John 8:34-36. We are free from the law because Jesus provides a better way to be righteous - HIS (sinless) SPIRIT, the seed of the Father! 1 John 3:9!!!

The "merit" we do is to WALK in the Spirit, and not in the flesh, but that is by the POWER of the Spirit. Also we must not grieve or quench the Spirit once given to us. We have RESPONSIBILITIES to not blemish this precious gift. Read my post again. No where do I say we can we righteous on our own as you read into it. BUT, I can do all things through Christ who STRENGTHENS me. With what? His own POWER.

1stcenturylady · Apr 27, 2019

topher694 said:
This is because the a large percentage of the church today have a limited or wrong understanding of what grace truly is. They see it as the opposite of works and thereby against them. But they are not opposites. The principles of God are not adversarial towards one another. Rather, they complement one another.

Yes, it is just as Jesus said, "few there are that find it."

PROPHECYKID · Apr 27, 2019

Gideons300 said:
It has become a common occurrence in the modern church to expose and condemn legalism, with people trying (and failing) to reign in the flesh by some sort of list made up of "Thou shalts..." and "Thou shalt not's". And that is wonderful, for it is by grace that we are saved, not of works lest any man should boast.

But something has been bothering me for a while now. Is it just me, or do you think it is possible that is our effort to magnify grace, we may be missing something...... the part where we are all called to follow Him, and seek Him and obey Him with all our hearts...... fervently?

For every verse about grace, I suspect there are two that are urging us to a deeper intimacy with Jesus, or warning us to not give place to the devil for he is fixed on stealing from us.

Paul talks about running our race as if there is but one prize. He exhorts CHRISTIANS to make their calling and election sure..... by enduring to the end. He tells us that it is our reasonable service to present ourselves as living sacrifices. Whoa.

James tells us that friendship with the world is enmity against God. He says that a double minded man is unstable in all of His ways and likens it to adultery against God.

Peter tells us to sober and vigilant, for our enemy goes about seeking whom he may devour.

Jesus Himself said that if we lose our lives for His sake, we save them. He says that we are His friends if we do whatsoever He commands us. unfortunately the opposite of both is true as well.

The question is.... do we have ears to hear? Do we want more? Do we believe it is even possible? How can we come to such a place? Listen, We must first hate our carnal lower nature..... what we consider "the normal us". Ouch.

Our understanding of Christianity is out of balance, don't you think? Why would there be warnings and exhortations against willful sin, or worldliness, lukewarmness, or being double minded literally throughout the New Testament? Have they now become of not applicable to us enlightened ones?
Grace trumps all, right?

How small (and quiet) the crowd that says we still need to pay heed to all of God's words to us, the goodnesss AND the severity? And no wonder. the ones bold enough to question our lack of balance are immediately labeled and shamed as heretics and legalists. They are told this is the new gospel, a grace so deep there is no need for balance, or even obedience. Free means free of all those pesky rules!

Hmmmmmm. Have we come to such a deep revelation of grace that we think that we can (of course, we WON'T) sin any sin, and not even necessarily repent, and STILL our names are already etched into the Lamb's book of life and cannot be removed? We need to think again.

What we are witnessing, and for the majority a part of, satan's finest masterstrokes. Magnify grace. Minimize sin and its consequences. Do you know what God calls it?

Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.

To all who read these words, I beseech you, get before the Lord and prayerfully seek Him. Examine yourselves whether you are "in the faith" with both sides of the gospel. We are promised that if we will judge ourselves, we will not be judged. Ask yourself if the fellowship you are a part of is balanced, and found encouraging you to go deeper, to learn how to actually abide in Christ, where He promises we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Are you lulled into an ever deepening assurance that Heaven is yours or are you told that willful sin is death?

Listen guys. We have been given much. Lest we forget, to whom much is given, much is required. Amen?

*crickets*

blessings, Gids

(Now if you find such a commitment scares the heck out of you and that you fear you will fail or feel it too confining, may I promise you that He will move mountains in these last days to take us, change us, fill us and use us as lights leading others to Him?

The Bible does not call it "the glorious liberty of the children of God" for nothing. We are about to have our feet planted on the highway of holiness, but first we have to see that the road we are on is circular and our lives are passing, but we are getting nowhere, and worst of all, we have been brainwashed into thinking this is perfectly normal. May I humbly tell you.... it may appear normal. But if you stay on that path, it will lead you away from the light of life.

Time to wake up! Live, bones, live.

blessings, Gideon

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on here. You hit the nail on the head. It is really all rooted in selfishness. People will accept the doctrine which they can use to do whatever they please and not feel accountable. When Pauls saying for grace are we saved through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast people give that scripture more weight than any other single verse in the bible because they can use it to justify their intentions. Like you said, James and Pau are in harmony who are both also in harmony with Jesus who said if you love me keep my commandments, and who also said that if any man comes after him, they must deny themselves, take up their cross and follow him. The same Paul who said we are saved by grace also said we are saved unto good works. Its the same Paul who said that if you have love you will fulfill the law.

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Yes, it is just as Jesus said, "few there are that find it."

It’s few there are who find it because it’s few who trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

1stcenturylady · Apr 27, 2019

Danthemailman said:
It’s few there are who find it because it’s few who trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

Jesus doesn't leave us the way He found us. He is the one who frees us from sin. We can't do that on our own. What many believe, is that He is no more involved than taking our punishment in our place. And their understanding stops there. You're brighter than that, Dan.

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Jesus doesn't leave us the way He found us. He is the one who frees us from sin. We can't do that on our own. What many believe, is that He is no more involved than taking our punishment in our place. And their understanding stops there. You're brighter than that, Dan.

What many people do not understand is that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).

We must not confuse justification with ongoing sanctification with the end result being salvation by works.

Has the modern church lost its balance on grace?

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