the 7 denominations of the book of Revelation

Gregory95 said:

Are not all true believers to be of one mind?

How do we profess truth to the world when they look at us and say you don't even agree with one another

True believers should rebuke those in error and those in error should happy turn to truth

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And when two folks can't agree because each believes he is the true believer and the other is in error?

parousia70 said:

And when two folks can't agree because each believes he is the true believer and the other is in error?

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Turn to Scripture as it should be the go to

parousia70 said:

And when two folks can't agree because each believes he is the true believer and the other is in error?

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For truly one is in error

Look at what Paul did to Peter when Peter errored on circumcision

parousia70 said:

So ... was that a "yes" or a "no"?

Sorry, I couldn't tell.

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Tone said:

yes, those who do not repent from the assembly of Sardis did and will have a "rude awakening", if you will, from Messiah.

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Yes.

Tone said:

Yes.

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Ok... When do you say it happen for them back then?

When Did Christ Come as a thief to 1st century Sardis?

Is there any historical record of this "coming"?

Gregory95 said:

For truly one is in error

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Or, both might be in error....

parousia70 said:

So, is it the same thief's coming as these?:
1 Thessalonians 5:2,4
2 Peter 3:10
Matthew 24:43-44
Luke 12:39-40
Revelation 16:15

Are you implying that the above "Thief's coming" narratives also describing a personal, private "unexpected and abrupt death in one's sins" that happens over and over and over to each individual while they await judgment?

Interesting.

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1 Thessalonians 5:10
"that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."

No, I believe that there is an ultimate "Day of the Lord", that we are all waiting for, whether we sleep or we're awake. The next wakeful event for those in Sardis will be that day.


"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. (Rev 20:11–12)

Even now the axe is lying at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "I baptize you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing-floor and will gather his wheat into the granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:10–12)

Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let anyone with ears listen! (Matthew 13:40–43)

I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that can do nothing more. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! (Luke 12:4–5)

I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! (Luke 12:49)"
Last Judgment - Wikipedia

parousia70 said:

Or, both might be in error....

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Yes this is why people need to study themselves and not subscribe to mans doctrine

parousia70 said:

Ok... When do you say it happen for them back then?

When Did Christ Come as a thief to 1st century Sardis?

Is there any historical record of this "coming"?

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Well, they died...and then will be cast into hell, if they did not repent.


"I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that can do nothing more. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! (Luke 12:4–5)"

Tone said:

1 Thessalonians 5:10
"that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."

No, I believe that there is an ultimate "Day of the Lord", that we are all waiting for, whether we sleep or we're awake. The next wakeful event for those in Sardis will be that day.

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However, Paul is not using the terms "wake and sleep" in this context to refer to physical life or death as you presume:

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Sleep, in this context, is the opposite of "watching", it's not paying attention.. its being drunk and carefree..

To be Awake, in this context is to be Sober, Vigilant, Watching for His coming.

Pauls was saying to the Thessalonian Christians, if they remained awake and watching the day will not overtake them like a thief for they would be prepared... if they were asleep, not watching, the day would overtake them like a thief.

Paul goes on to confirm that watching (awake) or not watching (asleep) will only determine how prepared they would be for that soon coming Judgment... it had ZERO bearing on those Christians' eternal place with Christ, for whether we wake or sleep, (whether we are watching or not), we (Christains) will live together with Christ for eternity.

Tone said:

Well, they died...and then will be cast into hell, if they did not repent.

"I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that can do nothing more. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! (Luke 12:4–5)"

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So does this coming of Christ as a thief happen to each individual when he dies?
1 Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

It's not a one-time event that happens to all?

parousia70 said:

So does this coming of Christ as a thief happen to each individual when he dies?
1 Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

It's not a one-time event that happens to all?

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Acts 24:15
"And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."

Tone said:

Acts 24:15
"And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."

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But those at Sardis were alive when Jesus promised the event would befall them, back then.

Is not our Lord a keeper of promises?

He's not a loophole guy.....

frogoon234 said:

thats fair. but i disagree. I believe the book of Revelation should to some measure be attempted to be understood by historical events considering it is a book about the future going out from the time of John (Patmos John).

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So what were the different theological views of the seven churches according to the biblical text?

POSTED TO WRONG THREAD...whoops...

parousia70 said:

Is not our Lord a keeper of promises?

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Yes, the Adon is a keeper of what He says will happen if we do not repent.

If only you people would set all this aside and just read it and let Father speak to you, you would get it. Come to him as a child.

Calvin_1985 said:

you people

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