Rabbi blasts Ilhan Omar, NYT for pushing claim Jesus was ‘Palestinian,’ not Jewish

Also history will show that there were no Muslims on the face of the earth during the Times of Christ. Mohammad wasn’t born yet.

Click to expand...

Wow.

hislegacy said:

Mark 15:34 would disagree

Click to expand...

This phrase ... is given in these two versions. The Matthean version of the phrase is transliterated in Greek as Ἠλί, Ἠλί, λιμὰ σαβαχθανί. The Markan version is Ἐλωΐ, Ἐλωΐ, λαμὰ σαβαχθανί (elōi rather than ēli and lama rather than lema).

Overall, both versions appear to be Aramaic rather than Hebrew because of the verb שבק (šbq) "abandon", which is originally Aramaic.

As would Mark 5:41

Click to expand...

In Mark 5:41, Jesus speaks in Aramaic as he resurrects a young girl:

Also history will show that there were no Muslims on the face of the earth during the Times of Christ. Mohammad wasn’t born yet.

Click to expand...

True, but irrelevant.

FireDragon76 said:

If Jesus knew any hebrew, it was no longer as a spoken language. Just like nobody really speaks Latin today as a living language .

Click to expand...

There is little doubt he knew Hebrew as the language of the Torah, as any educated Jew of his time would have. However, the common spoken languages were Aramaic and Koine Greek. These are commonplace facts beyond argument and I fail to see how the matter is germane to the discussion.

DaisyDay said:

All this arguing over historical details while ignoring the point of the tweet in question re-enforces the point:

Why do the American Christian Right-wingers support the oppression of Palestinians? Specifically, Palestinian Christians are not allowed to travel to Jerusalem for Easter. Nary a peep about this, just a focus on what language Jesus spoke and whether "Palestine" was ever formally a nation.

Note that the FoxNews article, although admitting in passing that the NYT piece was an op-ed, suspiciously does not link to it all the while accusing the paper of antisemitism for running it.

Click to expand...

Well, oppression is a big word, that gets smaller when rockets are fired into residential areas of Israel.

The Palestinian issue has a long history, to be honest the surrounding Arab nations have stuck it to the Palestinian people far worse than Israel.

The West Bank was part of Jordan, until the Six Day War, but when the dust settled Jordan wanted nothing to do with taking the Palestinian people back into Jordan.

The same goes for Gaza, it was part of Egypt until Israel took it in the Six Day War. Egypt was not demanding there citizens back either.

Palestine was offered it's own state, but Arafat would not agree to it, it gave the Palestinians 90% of what they asked for, and 90% is darn good in any negotiations, but Arafat wanted total control of Jerusalem, and Israel will never agree to that.

The Palastinians refuse to recognize Israel's right to exsist, no one can expect Israel to stand by and be destroyed.

Palestine really damaged it's standing in the eyes of most nations when it refused the two nation solution back in the 90's, and it's refusal to endorse Israel's right to exsist. At this point, I really don't think any Government really cares what happens to the Palestinians, It seems for sure the other Arab countries could care less.

Additionally, when you blow yourself up on crowded city busses, and kill dozens of people, and continue to launch rockets into civilian areas, you will not get much sympathy.

To be honest, Israel is much more patient than they should be, and if they keep poking Israel, they will get poked back.

It sucks for the civilians in both sides, as conflict always does. Israel is a very small nation that has always lived in a dangerous neighborhood, if they do not show strength, and a willingness to put boot to backside, then they will look weak, which in the middle East means your dead.

I have little sympathy for the Palestinians.

Jesus was a Jew from the Land of Israel. Even Scripture describes it as such.

Matthew 2:19-21

Making a distinction between the modern day State and the region, it is still called Israel.

Silverback said:

Well, oppression is a big word, that gets smaller when rockets are fired into residential areas of Israel.

Click to expand...

Who is it firing the rockets? Is it the Christians?

The Palestinian issue has a long history, to be honest the surrounding Arab nations have stuck it to the Palestinian people far worse than Israel.

Click to expand...

Are you aware of all sides of the history?

Additionally, when you blow yourself up on crowded city busses, and kill dozens of people, and continue to launch rockets into civilian areas, you will not get much sympathy.

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that the Christian Palestinians have ever done that - can you cite an example?

I have little sympathy for the Palestinians.

Click to expand...

Noted...glaringly obvious.

hislegacy said:

Also history will show that there were no Muslims on the face of the earth during the Times of Christ. Mohammad wasn’t born yet.

Click to expand...

The tweet was about Palestinian Christians not being supported by right-wing Americans. Arab/Palestinian does not equate to Muslim.

Jesus was a Jew from the Land of Israel. Even Scripture describes it as such.

Click to expand...

And Palestinians are non-Jews from the land of Israel (using your words as you have them set up). And Israelis are Jews not from the land of Israel. They emmigrated and took over.

Calling Jesus Palestinian is perfectly fair, since Palestinians are defined to be religious-neutral and are the aboriginals of the region who always lived there. Which the Israelis--especially the Ashkenazis--are not.

Palestinian? Yeah right. Jesus was caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes.

DaisyDay said:

Who is it firing the rockets? Is it the Christians?

Are you aware of all sides of the history?

I wasn't aware that the Christian Palestinians have ever done that - can you cite an example?

Noted...glaringly obvious.

Click to expand...

Just a difference of opinion, no reason to be upset, see you around.

The weather outside is pretty nice.

Just saying.

Nithavela said:

The weather outside is pretty nice.

Just saying.

Click to expand...

It sure is

The intent in calling Jesus a Palestinian is obviously to draw a connection between modern day Palestinians (whom are essentially Arabs) and Jesus, as if they were one in the same race. It's misleading and I don't recall any ancient source ever referring to the Jewish people in Roman Palestine/Israel as Palestinians. It was also only called Palestine after the Jewish Rebellion and the expulsion of the Jews, possibly as a means to insult Jews.

It's wrong historically and is a cynical attempt to get Christians to be more sympathetic to the Palestinians instead of being a serious historical opinion.

Silverback said:

Just a difference of opinion, no reason to be upset, see you around.

Click to expand...

Oh, the old "don't be so emotional" condescension ploy, great. It's not a difference of opinion - you didn't address any of the facts or questions, you just hand-waved them all away.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

The intent in calling Jesus a Palestinian is obviously to draw a connection between modern day Palestinians (whom are essentially Arabs) and Jesus, as if they were one in the same race.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't they be more of the same "race" than modern Israelis who are largely East European migrants?

It's misleading and I don't recall any ancient source ever referring to the Jewish people in Roman Palestine/Israel as Palestinians. It was also only called Palestine after the Jewish Rebellion and the expulsion of the Jews, possibly as a means to insult Jews.

It's wrong historically and is a cynical attempt to get Christians to be more sympathetic to the Palestinians instead of being a serious historical opinion.

Click to expand...

If you read the tweet, it is wondering why Western Christians are not more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian Christians. I find it a good question.

DaisyDay said:

If you read the tweet, it is wondering why Western Christians are not more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian Christians. I find it a good question.

Click to expand...

Maybe we've stumbled upon the one place in the world where Christians do not face enough persecution to worry about!

PeachyKeane said:

Palestinian? Yeah right. Jesus was caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes.

Click to expand...

Exactly, and (referencing the prior arguments) He spoke in the King's English of the early 17th Century.

essentialsaltes said:

The Mojave are a people. A tribe. An ethnos. Perhaps a nation.

Click to expand...

The link you gave contains no use of the word "nation". Regardless, whichever side of the Palestine/Israel situation one is on, Palestine has never been a nation. It was once a kingdom in the B.C. era, but that's as close as you get.

DaisyDay said:

Wouldn't they be more of the same "race" than modern Israelis who are largely East European migrants?

Click to expand...

Bunching up ancient Semitic peoples into the same race seems purely like a guess to me. People groups can be remarkably different even if they are of similar ancestry or similar racial background. Just look at Africa and how many people groups there are or the divisions in the Arab world.

It's still a cynical attempt to divert people away from Christ's Jewish ancestry.

With regards to sympathy to the Palestinians. I wouldn't mind supporting them if I thought they didn't want to reclaim all Israel from the river to the sea. That's a pipe dream and never gonna happen. This isn't to suggest that Israel isn't doing anything wrong, I think continuing to advance settlements doesn't help them or make the Palestinians any more likely to want to work with Israelis. Ultimately it will be up to the Palestinians to get rid of their bad terrorist sympathetic leadership if they want to have a state of their own.

hislegacy said:

Mark 15:34 would disagree

As would Mark 5:41

Also history will show that there were no Muslims on the face of the earth during the Times of Christ. Mohammad wasn’t born yet.

Click to expand...

Why should it be surprising that during His crucifixion, the Psalms in liturgical Hebrew would come to His lips?

This still does not change the fact that Hebrew was not a vernacular language among Jews at this time.