Same-Sex Attraction And The Church

RDKirk · Apr 24, 2019

Jonathan Mathews said:
Thoughts come from

1) Satan
2) Sinful flesh
3) God's Spirit

The thoughts from Satan are not your fault. Neither are the thoughts from God. But the thoughts from your own sinful flesh ARE your fault.

From what I see in scripture, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit shares space with any other spirit. Demons share space--thousands of demons may be in a man. But our God is a jealous God. If the Holy Spirit abides within someone, there can be no demon in him.

If the Holy Spirit abides in someone, I believe all his thoughts contrary to the will of God are those of his own unrenewed mind. There is no indication in scripture that Satan can think thoughts in a man's head that he would take as his own. Even in Romans 7 when Paul speaks of struggling with sin in his own mind, he gives no "credit" to Satan--it's all him.

His problem is that from the moment he took his first breath out of the womb (maybe even earlier), his mind has taken all its cues from his flesh. He has to unlearn the control of the flesh and learn the control of the spirit.

He must conform his own mind to the mind of Christ, day by day.

So for the OP, this is an effort you must take. You feed your spirit through your mind, and what enters your mind is through your eyes and ears.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. -- Philippians 4

RDKirk · Apr 24, 2019

THE W said:
go ahead and attend your local church gathering.

the only time you would need to say anything is if you plan on becoming a communicate member of your local gathering. at that point they will want to know if you still engage in this particular sin. same as if you were dealing with inappropriate contentography or drunkenness. if you're recognizing that this thing is indeed sinful and seek to repent of it your local congregation will work with you to fight it.

One would hope.

A few years ago, in another city, I was having lunch with the pastor of the congregation I was attending at that time and place.

He lamented how difficult it was to deal with the issue of homosexuality in the proper way. He said that if a member was struggling with any other problem, it would be easy to call on elders and senior members to help with that struggle. Someone calling one night struggling with inappropriate contentography--sure, the brothers would be glad to rush to his house to help. "Pastor, I'm struggling with promiscuity, and I slept with a woman other than my wife last night--I need someone to help me." Sure. Anything else...sure the brothers are there to help.

But homosexuality, he said...that was a problem. "Pastor, I'm having a problem with homosexuality, and I fell last night--I need someone to help me." Oh, no. A member struggling with any other sin would be tolerated and aided in his struggle. But if someone was struggling with That was the only sin people demanded be conquered before becoming a member. He lamented that was a problem even in his own congregation.

So for the OP: Be wise and prayerful about who you go to for assistance. There might not be anyone in your congregation who is prepared to help you.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 24, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I have same-sex attraction. I know that it is a sin against God. But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members?

Part of me thinks that I should not go to church because let's face it, homosexuality is a sin that the church hates the most. That is why they preach against it the most. Well, that is what it shows on the media anyways.

I understand that it is an unnatural sin. But because they speak so much against it, I have to wonder why go to church when everyone will clearly be uncomfortable around me because of my sinful struggle? I want to know the truth. But it is hard to hear the truth when the people who tell you the truth hates your sin the most. It will be like wanting to get educated, but the educator makes you feel stupid if you got the wrong answer. You want to know if you got the answer right or wrong, but your teacher was very condescending in the way that corrected you.

Again, the question is, do I need to reveal my sin to members of the church? Should I just have a don't ask and don't tell attitude? I know that the Bible says to confess your sins one to another, but that is the sin that gets condemned the most by other Christians. I don't know if I want to reveal that to them.

To be fair, I don't think scripture specifically says that it is a sin to be attracted to the same sex. However, lust, fornication, and homosexual intercourse is.

Mark Quayle · Apr 24, 2019

RDKirk said:
From what I see in scripture, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit shares space with any other spirit. Demons share space--thousands of demons may be in a man. But our God is a jealous God. If the Holy Spirit abides within someone, there can be no demon in him.

If the Holy Spirit abides in someone, I believe all his thoughts contrary to the will of God are those of his own unrenewed mind. There is no indication in scripture that Satan can think thoughts in a man's head that he would take as his own. Even in Romans 7 when Paul speaks of struggling with sin in his own mind, he gives no "credit" to Satan--it's all him.

His problem is that from the moment he took his first breath out of the womb (maybe even earlier), his mind has taken all its cues from his flesh. He has to unlearn the control of the flesh and learn the control of the spirit.

He must conform his own mind to the mind of Christ, day by day.

I know of some people that from personal experience would vehemently disagree with your conclusion that no demon can possess someone who is born again (my words to what you said, I know).

But also, I have to say it seems to me you can't apply natural (this life's) constraints to the Spiritual world. God does not need our laws of physics. What do we know of spiritual geography?

I completely and thoroughly agree with your paragraph beginning with "His problem.." and with your last sentence.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 24, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I have same-sex attraction. I know that it is a sin against God. But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members?

Part of me thinks that I should not go to church because let's face it, homosexuality is a sin that the church hates the most. That is why they preach against it the most. Well, that is what it shows on the media anyways.

I understand that it is an unnatural sin. But because they speak so much against it, I have to wonder why go to church when everyone will clearly be uncomfortable around me because of my sinful struggle? I want to know the truth. But it is hard to hear the truth when the people who tell you the truth hates your sin the most. It will be like wanting to get educated, but the educator makes you feel stupid if you got the wrong answer. You want to know if you got the answer right or wrong, but your teacher was very condescending in the way that corrected you.

Again, the question is, do I need to reveal my sin to members of the church? Should I just have a don't ask and don't tell attitude? I know that the Bible says to confess your sins one to another, but that is the sin that gets condemned the most by other Christians. I don't know if I want to reveal that to them.

I have the same tendency. I personally would reveal it to trusted mentors in God. I think it should be a person to keep you accountable. I would suggest going to church and homegroups still and not cut ties.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 24, 2019

RDKirk said:
From what I see in scripture, I do not believe that the Holy Spirit shares space with any other spirit. Demons share space--thousands of demons may be in a man. But our God is a jealous God. If the Holy Spirit abides within someone, there can be no demon in him.

If the Holy Spirit abides in someone, I believe all his thoughts contrary to the will of God are those of his own unrenewed mind. There is no indication in scripture that Satan can think thoughts in a man's head that he would take as his own. Even in Romans 7 when Paul speaks of struggling with sin in his own mind, he gives no "credit" to Satan--it's all him.

His problem is that from the moment he took his first breath out of the womb (maybe even earlier), his mind has taken all its cues from his flesh. He has to unlearn the control of the flesh and learn the control of the spirit.

He must conform his own mind to the mind of Christ, day by day.

So for the OP, this is an effort you must take. You feed your spirit through your mind, and what enters your mind is through your eyes and ears.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. -- Philippians 4

Your assumption about demons not being able to occupy a body is not true. They can. I have one and i am a Spirit filled believer. I see demons cast out of christians. Demons can not own you but they can oppress and inhabit the mind...will..body like the temple's outer courts and inner courts were defiled but never the Holy of Holies.

Thess · Apr 25, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I have same-sex attraction. I know that it is a sin against God. But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members?

Part of me thinks that I should not go to church because let's face it, homosexuality is a sin that the church hates the most. That is why they preach against it the most. Well, that is what it shows on the media anyways.

I understand that it is an unnatural sin. But because they speak so much against it, I have to wonder why go to church when everyone will clearly be uncomfortable around me because of my sinful struggle? I want to know the truth. But it is hard to hear the truth when the people who tell you the truth hates your sin the most. It will be like wanting to get educated, but the educator makes you feel stupid if you got the wrong answer. You want to know if you got the answer right or wrong, but your teacher was very condescending in the way that corrected you.

Again, the question is, do I need to reveal my sin to members of the church? Should I just have a don't ask and don't tell attitude? I know that the Bible says to confess your sins one to another, but that is the sin that gets condemned the most by other Christians. I don't know if I want to reveal that to them.

I sure hope someone has already told you what I'm about to tell you, but you are not your body, nor are you your sins. Those things are not the real you.

Questions:

Did you choose your Sin Nature? No....and neither did anyone else.
Were you included and asked what issues your Sin Nature will include? No....and neither was anyone else.

If you were my disciple I tell you to be calm and relax, that this is nothing. Just like I used to be addicted to having tons of sex with tons of women, you have that same inclination within yourself. I could care less if it's for a dude or a chick....that kind of living is that kind of living and it's unholy....bottom line.

I've begun a article that will likely be turned into a workbook that just might just use 50/50 bible verses and my own commentary to clarify. It's nowhere near complete and is a total, completely rough draft, but I absolutely guarantee you that you will have a working knowledge of the Faith of Abraham and the Law of Moses and it's three unique stages, what they mean and how they relate to our lives.

My friend....all sin and blasphemy is forgivable except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Please relax and know that through the Holy Spirit, if you properly believe, will heal you of this silly sin of the flesh just as God has healed, or shall I say, cut out my Sin Nature. God can remove your Sin Nature, too, it's just that no one has taught us these clear and obvious biblical teachings. The reason why? Because if churches had true believers, we'd figure out that they were robbing us of our monies and salvation. Today's church leaders won't teach you the truth because if they do, you won't be sick any longer. And what can a false teacher do with a person that isn't sick?

I hope you accept my offer. I COMPLETELY believe in you and all that God is capable of doing in your life and mind!

devin553344 · Apr 25, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
Yeah, I don't know if you are born with it or not. I don't make such claims. I have no idea or understand it. I am taking a psychology class; and according to the texts, they did not find a gay gene. So, I don't know. But they also did not find a gene for mental illness, like schizophrenia. So, who knows what causes these things.

Well wikipedia lists genetics as a main factor for schizophrenia: "The causes of schizophrenia include environmental and genetic factors." And they give references. You could follow the footnote references for more information.

Also I am schizophrenic and my doctor had a genetic test I could do to determine which line of medications my body would tolerate. Which by reasoning and logic also suggests genetic factors.

Also for homosexuality they have linked it to genetic factors recently: What do the new ‘gay genes’ tell us about sexual orientation?

These are a new science like I said, so maybe it hasn't hit the classroom yet. Cheers

Verv · Apr 25, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I have same-sex attraction. I know that it is a sin against God. But I was wondering if I have to reveal my issue to church members?

Part of me thinks that I should not go to church because let's face it, homosexuality is a sin that the church hates the most. That is why they preach against it the most. Well, that is what it shows on the media anyways.

I understand that it is an unnatural sin. But because they speak so much against it, I have to wonder why go to church when everyone will clearly be uncomfortable around me because of my sinful struggle? I want to know the truth. But it is hard to hear the truth when the people who tell you the truth hates your sin the most. It will be like wanting to get educated, but the educator makes you feel stupid if you got the wrong answer. You want to know if you got the answer right or wrong, but your teacher was very condescending in the way that corrected you.

Again, the question is, do I need to reveal my sin to members of the church? Should I just have a don't ask and don't tell attitude? I know that the Bible says to confess your sins one to another, but that is the sin that gets condemned the most by other Christians. I don't know if I want to reveal that to them.

You recognize your sin, and you wish to stay faithful to God, and act in accordance with His Will. That is amazing & powerful. You carry a great burden -- and every step you carry it is counted in your favor. I sometimes think of the brothers & sisters in Christ that remain celibate or struggle with passions that are like this when I think about my own calling in life to overcome my alcoholism, which I have now done for over a year and with great struggles of my own.

God bless.

Here is my thought on it...

In our Church, we confess our sins to our spiritual father among the Clergy, and we are not called on confessing them to anyone else at all. But, of course, we can share if we like, especially if it is edifying.

There is no burden for you to confess to someone who isn't your spiritual father. This isn't necessarily an act of saying I do not trust that person, but it is also because saying these things can actually become a burden on them, or a burden on you, if it is not handled properly or carefully.

I would recommend checking out an Orthodox church at some point. But, of course, I respect your freedom of choice. And my advice would otherwise be that you should tread carefully and not feel burdened to confess this to someone who isn't your minister, but also to feel comfortable to potentially tell someone else in your church community if that feels right to you.

Introverted1293 · Apr 25, 2019

devin553344 said:
Well wikipedia lists genetics as a main factor for schizophrenia: "The causes of schizophrenia include environmental and genetic factors." And they give references. You could follow the footnote references for more information.

Also I am schizophrenic and my doctor had a genetic test I could do to determine which line of medications my body would tolerate. Which by reasoning and logic also suggests genetic factors.

Also for homosexuality they have linked it to genetic factors recently: What do the new ‘gay genes’ tell us about sexual orientation?

These are a new science like I said, so maybe it hasn't hit the classroom yet. Cheers

I believe you. I don't know how it all works yet. Thank you very much for letting me know.

Introverted1293 · Apr 25, 2019

Verv said:
You recognize your sin, and you wish to stay faithful to God, and act in accordance with His Will. That is amazing & powerful. You carry a great burden -- and every step you carry it is counted in your favor. I sometimes think of the brothers & sisters in Christ that remain celibate or struggle with passions that are like this when I think about my own calling in life to overcome my alcoholism, which I have now done for over a year and with great struggles of my own.

God bless.

Here is my thought on it...

In our Church, we confess our sins to our spiritual father among the Clergy, and we are not called on confessing them to anyone else at all. But, of course, we can share if we like, especially if it is edifying.

There is no burden for you to confess to someone who isn't your spiritual father. This isn't necessarily an act of saying I do not trust that person, but it is also because saying these things can actually become a burden on them, or a burden on you, if it is not handled properly or carefully.

I would recommend checking out an Orthodox church at some point. But, of course, I respect your freedom of choice. And my advice would otherwise be that you should tread carefully and not feel burdened to confess this to someone who isn't your minister, but also to feel comfortable to potentially tell someone else in your church community if that feels right to you.

Thank you very much for the advice. God bless

Introverted1293 · Apr 25, 2019

Thess said:
I sure hope someone has already told you what I'm about to tell you, but you are not your body, nor are you your sins. Those things are not the real you.

Questions:

Did you choose your Sin Nature? No....and neither did anyone else.
Were you included and asked what issues your Sin Nature will include? No....and neither was anyone else.

If you were my disciple I tell you to be calm and relax, that this is nothing. Just like I used to be addicted to having tons of sex with tons of women, you have that same inclination within yourself. I could care less if it's for a dude or a chick....that kind of living is that kind of living and it's unholy....bottom line.

I've begun a article that will likely be turned into a workbook that just might just use 50/50 bible verses and my own commentary to clarify. It's nowhere near complete and is a total, completely rough draft, but I absolutely guarantee you that you will have a working knowledge of the Faith of Abraham and the Law of Moses and it's three unique stages, what they mean and how they relate to our lives.

My friend....all sin and blasphemy is forgivable except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Please relax and know that through the Holy Spirit, if you properly believe, will heal you of this silly sin of the flesh just as God has healed, or shall I say, cut out my Sin Nature. God can remove your Sin Nature, too, it's just that no one has taught us these clear and obvious biblical teachings. The reason why? Because if churches had true believers, we'd figure out that they were robbing us of our monies and salvation. Today's church leaders won't teach you the truth because if they do, you won't be sick any longer. And what can a false teacher do with a person that isn't sick?

I hope you accept my offer. I COMPLETELY believe in you and all that God is capable of doing in your life and mind!

Thank you very much. That was very helpful. God bless

Introverted1293 · Apr 25, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
I have the same tendency. I personally would reveal it to trusted mentors in God. I think it should be a person to keep you accountable. I would suggest going to church and homegroups still and not cut ties.

Thank you very much and God bless

And thank you for sharing that you have the same struggle.

Introverted1293 · Apr 25, 2019

No Username Found said:
To be fair, I don't think scripture specifically says that it is a sin to be attracted to the same sex. However, lust, fornication, and homosexual intercourse is.

Thank you for sharing your input.

devin553344 · Apr 25, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I believe you. I don't know how it all works yet. Thank you very much for letting me know.

Since you're taking psychology I thought you might find this interesting, which, if true definitely suggests a genetic factor: https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/what-causes-schizophrenia#1

"They do know that you’re more likely to get schizophrenia if someone in your family has it. If it’s a parent, brother, or sister, your chances go up by 10%. If both your parents have it, you have a 40% chance of getting it."

And there are many new scientific studies that do similar analysis of homosexual linking: The evolutionary puzzle of homosexuality

"But scientific opinion is with Macklemore. Since the early 1990s, researchers have shown that homosexuality is more common in brothers and relatives on the same maternal line, and a genetic factor is taken to be the cause..."

lastofall · Apr 25, 2019

The matter is sin and repenting for the remission of my sins and nothing else: if I steal(for example) then I must repent and own my sin and stop stealing; so is it with every sin under the sun. Other than this there is no other matter to discuss.

Anthony2019 · Apr 25, 2019

I hope and pray you will find a church that doesn't simply focus on your sexuality, but on you as a whole person. I hope their welcome will be extended to you as generously and unconditionally as it would be to any other person walking through their doors. You are a child of God and deeply loved by Him. Let no-one tell you that you are anything different.

When you raise issues such as these with Christians, you will get a lot of different responses. Some of them will understand what you are going through and others will not. The most important thing is that the Lord understands what you are going through and will help you and guide you. Prayerfully read the scriptures, and ask the Lord to direct you in the way He wishes you to go.

Sabertooth · Apr 25, 2019

@Introverted1293 , you don't need to wear "same-sex attraction" as a badge or scarlet letter. The only time it should really come up is when you are seeking out prayer or counseling for it, and then only on a need-to-know basis.

It is no different than Brother Bob having the "hots" for Sister Sue (who is another man's wife). Bob just needs to repent without making a spectacle out of the incident (as often as he needs to).

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 NKJV

MournfulWatcher · Apr 25, 2019

devin553344 said:
Well wikipedia lists genetics as a main factor for schizophrenia: "The causes of schizophrenia include environmental and genetic factors." And they give references. You could follow the footnote references for more information.

Also I am schizophrenic and my doctor had a genetic test I could do to determine which line of medications my body would tolerate. Which by reasoning and logic also suggests genetic factors.

Also for homosexuality they have linked it to genetic factors recently: What do the new ‘gay genes’ tell us about sexual orientation?

These are a new science like I said, so maybe it hasn't hit the classroom yet. Cheers

A slight correction: the study linked it in some gay men, not all. It increases the chances of same sex attraction; there are other factors involved. It also didn't find it in lesbians.

DW1980 · Apr 25, 2019

MournfulWatcher said:
Correction: the study linked it in some gay men, not all. It increases the chances of same sex attraction; there are other factors involved. It also didn't find it in lesbians.

As someone who has a degree in psychology, and did a dissertation that meant I had to spend months studying research into sexual orientation, the research strongly supports a biological basis for sexuality. The best summary I've been able to find (and it matches what I saw) is a book called "Born Gay" by Glenn Wilson and Qazi Rahman. Highly recommended reading for anyone who thinks that "other factors" might be anything from parenting styles to choice.

You're right about lesbians, they are an understudied group - perhaps because they only make up 1-2% of women while gay men make up 4-6% of men, it's easier to research gay men than lesbians. I would be surprised however if there were significant differences in findings.

Anthony2019 said:
I hope and pray you will find a church that doesn't simply focus on your sexuality, but on you as a whole person. I hope their welcome will be extended to you as generously and unconditionally as it would be to any other person walking through their doors. You are a child of God and deeply loved by Him. Let no-one tell you that you are anything different.

When you raise issues such as these with Christians, you will get a lot of different responses. Some of them will understand what you are going through and others will not. The most important thing is that the Lord understands what you are going through and will help you and guide you. Prayerfully read the scriptures, and ask the Lord to direct you in the way He wishes you to go.

I totally agree with this. Christians have different views on sexual orientation, and it's definitely worth exploring that. But as @Anthony2019 says, the main thing is that you know that God understands, I would strongly encourage you to follow Jesus no matter what. Nothing is more important than that.

Same-Sex Attraction And The Church

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