OSAS....= is Grace

Carl Emerson

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The writer spends the entirety of Romans chapter 7 detailing the sin he is guilty of. It is covetousness. He sees things he wants and he knows that desire to be sin.

Rom 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

The writer describes the difficulties he has in controlling his thoughts. He never means to imply that he is acting on those thoughts. Acting on the thoughts is addressed at 1 Corinthians 9:

1Co 9:27 - But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

And your point is?
 
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DM25

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Romans 4:4
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."

Galatians 5:4
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

You are not a co-savior. There is only one saviour. Salvation is a gift of God and what he did for you... And you receive it by believing. It's not a bargain or a deal or a collaborative effort. Jesus isn't a salesmen who says "But there's a catch!". Grace really is a free gift. It's about time you guys understood that. I am praying you do... And know you can't lose a gift that is given to you that you never earned in the first place.
 
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HTacianas

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And your point is?

You seem to be in agreement with the OP that a Christian can simply live a life of mortal sin and remain in God's grace. It appears that you are using Romans 7 to support that idea when it is clear that the writer is addressing "sins of ignorance".
 
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DM25

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You seem to be in agreement with the OP that a Christian can simply live a life of mortal sin and remain in God's grace. It appears that you are using Romans 7 to support that idea when it is clear that the writer is addressing "sins of ignorance".
We all live a life of "mortal sin". You just don't understand that do you? God's standard of perfection goes beyond your human fleshly standard. WE ALL FALL SHORT. We all inherited sinful nature and are ALL evil. That's why Jesus came to save us. We can't do anything to earn salvation or sustain it and maintain it. It's all him and what he did. We are only made righteous in him. How do you not understand that? You righteousness is like filthy rags and God sees it as filthy rags because you are wicked like everyone else. Only way to be righteous is in COMPLETELY trusting Jesus did it all... Believing salvation is by grace and grace alone, not partly human effort like what dead religion says. You don't understand the gospel at all and it's honestly very sad...
 
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timewerx

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Yes we should live holy lives. Not to get saved, but because it's the right thing to do. Salvation is already established, by faith ALONE.

Yes, but someone who has faith is distinct from those who doesn't.

A lot of Christians are deceived by insufficient "watered-down" teachings concerning faith with a handful, "cherry-picked" verses from the Bible.

You have to read Paul's entire writings to truly understand what Paul meant about faith.
 
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HTacianas

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We all live a life of "mortal sin". You just don't understand that do you? God's standard of perfection goes beyond your human fleshly standard. WE ALL FALL SHORT. We all inherited sinful nature and are ALL evil. That's why Jesus came to save us. We can't do anything to earn salvation or sustain it and maintain it. It's all him and what he did. We are only made righteous in him. How do you not understand that? You righteousness is like filthy rags and God sees it as filthy rags because you are wicked like everyone else. Only way to be righteous is in COMPLETELY trusting Jesus did it all... Believing salvation is by grace and grace alone, not partly human effort like what dead religion says.

Dead religion? James said:

Jas 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

He states rather plainly that we are "justified by works, and not by faith only", which has been the teaching of Christianity since the beginning.
 
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Romans 8

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The Grace of God, this amazing love, is proven on the Cross, where God sacrificially hung and died to create for us THE ONLY way back into his Family.
John 14:6

All of this He did for us, and none of this has anything to do with our behavior....ever.
So, what a legalist does, is deny God the full credit that we all OWE God, for HIS Salvation, that HE DIED to give us.
The Legalist, tries to take credit, not for becoming a Christian, but for REMAINING ONE, OF themselves, by denying God credit for keeping them saved, ...as they replace God's Blood (The Atonement) by what Paul describes in Galatians, as getting back into the FLESH.
The idea being, that to turn away from Grace, ... to fall from it......is to begin to walk again in the flesh.
And this simply means that a Legalist has become, according to their FAITH = the KEEPER of their own salvation, as that is now their FAITH.....its in themselves and their works and self effort.
This spiritual condition, this mindset, is denying God the Credit for Salvation, as God is not being given full credit, for both saving them and Keeping them saved.
The Legalist is revoking and refusing to submit to these 2 verses, i'll post again.
Paul, refers to these believers as "walking in the flesh"., which is "self-righteousness" or , trying to "make self right with God"..

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2.

This makes a lot of sense. I thought I was arguing against a works based salvation, but in reality have I been arguing for it?

Also, I realize that one of my bigger motivations for arguing against OSAS was based on my disrespect for the false prophets promoting it. My contempt for them made it easier to be swayed by "evidence" against it.

I have been debating my salvation for the past few months since I became a Christian, wondering if His Spirit is in me, or if I need some kind of revelation. But how can I get any revelation if my faith itself is wavering?

I greatly appreciate this thread and the contributions of everyone on both sides.

God Bless!
 
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DM25

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Dead religion? James said:

Jas 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

He states rather plainly that we are "justified by works, and not by faith only", which has been the teaching of Christianity since the beginning.
Um no... Did you not read my above reply on this verse? CONTEXT. I will quote it:

Lol I was waiting for that. Read that verse in CONTEXT. The book of James talks about how we should treat other brethren, not how to get saved.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Does the person who is hungry and in need of clothes and food saved by faith? No, you must give them food and clothes... That's what the verse is about... Read the verses after not one verse and make it pertain to salvation to feed your agenda when it isn't. It's easy to take a verse without taking the context of it and apply our own meaning to it.
 
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DM25

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This makes a lot of sense. I thought I was arguing against a works based salvation, but in reality have I been arguing for it?

Also, I realize that one of my bigger motivations for arguing against OSAS was based on my disrespect for the false prophets promoting it. My contempt for them made it easier to be swayed by "evidence" against it.

I have been debating my salvation for the past few months since I became a Christian, wondering if His Spirit is in me, or if I need some kind of revelation. But how can I get any revelation if my faith itself is wavering?

I greatly appreciate this thread and the contributions of everyone on both sides.

God Bless!
False prophets preach against OSAS... You are completely twisted if you believe otherwise and I will pray for you. The gospel is serious stuff and getting it right is not a light issue. If you believe in false works-based salvationists who say you can lose your salvation you are the one denying scripture and following false prophets... Wake up.
 
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HTacianas

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Um no... Did you not read my above reply on this verse? CONTEXT. I will quote it:

Why then does he plainly state that those things justify us? Can you show me something in the bible that contradicts what he said?
 
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DM25

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Yes, but someone who has faith is distinct from those who doesn't.

A lot of Christians are deceived by insufficient "watered-down" teachings concerning faith with a handful, "cherry-picked" verses from the Bible.

You have to read Paul's entire writings to truly understand what Paul meant about faith.
you're still not getting it... Your salvation HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR WORKS OR THE THE WAY YOU SHOW IT. SALVATION IS A FREE UNEARNED GIFT BY JESUS. Why can't you get it through your head? Watered down? Obviously watering it down doesn't help no one because you and many other people on this site don't understand the SIMPLICITY of the gospel because you are deceived and think it has to do with your effort... That's exactly why the bible says it is a narrow way... Many religious people who rely partly on their works won't make it to heaven. The gospel is not hard or difficult, it is simple. If you think that's watered down, take it to God not me. But he will surely judge you harshly for denying it. You works don't save you. Your works are part of sanctification and discipleship, not salvation. Your works have nothing to do with salvation. Jesus' finished work, him dying on the cross, and you believing in that is what saves you, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
 
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DM25

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Why then does he plainly state that those things justify us? Can you show me something in the bible that contradicts what he said?
THE BOOK OF JAMES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. THE VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING TO HELP SOMEONE, YOUR FAITH CAN'T HELP THEM, THEY WON'T BE SAVED BY YOUR FAITH, SO YOU MUST DO ACTIONS TO SAVE THEM, SUCH AS FEED THE HUNGRY OR CLOTHE THE NAKED. THE BOOK IS TALKING ABOUT HOW TO TREAT YOUR BRETHREN. READ MY REPLY ABOVE. JUSTIFICATION MEANS TO BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE THE EYES OF OTHER MEN. TO BE JUSTIFIED BY PEOPLE BY DOING THINGS TO HELP THEM, NOT BEING JUSTIFIED BY GOD. JUSTIFICATION BY GOD IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED IN THE PREVIOUS BOOKS AND THAT IS BY FAITH ALONE.

He does not "plainly state" you are justified by your works before God. He states your justification in the eyes of other people come from your good works towards them. This is clear as day if you would just read the verses in context and actually pay attention to what the verses are saying in the book of James.
 
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Romans 8

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False prophets preach against OSAS... You are completely twisted if you believe otherwise and I will pray for you. The gospel is serious stuff and getting it right is not a light issue. If you believe in false works-based salvationists who say you can lose your salvation you are the one denying scripture and following false prophets... Wake up.

Did you read my post entirely? It appears you had trouble in translating it.

Yes, many false prophets teach OSAS. The neysayers in this very thread can back that up.

Also, I disagree with you on the point of telling people they are damned if they are against OSAS.
 
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HTacianas

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THE BOOK OF JAMES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. THE VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING TO HELP SOMEONE, YOUR FAITH CAN'T HELP THEM, THEY WON'T BE SAVED BY YOUR FAITH, SO YOU MUST DO ACTIONS TO SAVE THEM, SUCH AS FEED THE HUNGRY OR CLOTHE THE NAKED. THE BOOK IS TALKING ABOUT HOW TO TREAT YOUR BRETHREN. READ MY REPLY ABOVE. JUSTIFICATION MEANS TO BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE THE EYES OF OTHER MEN. TO BE JUSTIFIED BY PEOPLE BY DOING THINGS TO HELP THEM, NOT BEING JUSTIFIED BY GOD. JUSTIFICATION BY GOD IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED IN THE PREVIOUS BOOKS AND THAT IS BY FAITH ALONE.

You seem to be shouting nothing more than your own opinion at me. Can you give me something that supports that opinion.
 
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DM25

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Yes, many false prophets teach OSAS. The neysayers in this very thread can back that up.
I have yet to meet one. Most of the false prophets I've seen teach about losing your salvation and that is usually related to the heretical teachings of works-based salvation / Lordship Salvation.
 
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DM25

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You seem to be shouting nothing more than your own opinion at me. Can you give me something that supports that opinion.
I already showed you the verses that back it up... The bible shows you and it's clear as day:

4 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The entire book of James is about how to treat each other.

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

As you can see it is talking to already saved bretheren.

When the verse says to be justified it is talking about in the eyes of other people, not God as it is talking about how you should perform good deeds to your neighbours. It is about being justified in the eyes of men, and we are justified by other men by our works, so there is no contradiction and you must take the book and verses in the book in context. The book of James is not a book of salvation.
 
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HTacianas

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I already showed you the verses that back it up... The bible shows you and it's clear as day:

4 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So, if you have faith but not works, can that faith save you?

Jesus said that he will go so far as to throw people into hell for not feeding their hungry neighbors. James is certainly consistent with Jesus.
 
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DM25

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So, if you have faith but not works, can that faith save you?

Jesus said that he will go so far as to throw people into hell for not feeding their hungry neighbors. James is certainly consistent with Jesus.
Umm no Jesus did not say that. Again twisting the bible. Taking one verse yet I showed you the entire verse talking about SAVING the hungry person by your works, not saving yourself with your works. That verse has NOTHING to do with salvation. Stop twisting scripture.

Your works salvation heresy will not only lead you to hell but many who believe you. Please repent.
 
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HTacianas

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Umm no Jesus did not say that. Again twisting the bible. Taking one verse yet I showed you the entire verse talking about SAVING the hungry person by your works, not saving yourself with your works. That verse has NOTHING to do with salvation. Stop twisting scripture.

You need to review Matthew 25:33-46.
 
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DM25

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You need to review Matthew 25:33-46.
No, you need to review Matthew 25:33-46. Because again you take it out of context. But nice try.

Mathew 25 is about Israel and the tribulation. This is about Jacob's trouble, the time of the great tribulation... Not a believer's walk with God.

Matthew 25 King James Version (KJV)
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

This is about THE END OF THE AGE. That's what the disciples are asking about in this book. This is about Israel and the tribulation. The ten virgins discussed are about the time of tribulation. How Israel should treat the nations.

You must take scripture in context otherwise you will only apply your own understanding sounds right to you and that leads to destruction. Please repent. Please take scripture in context.
 
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