OSAS....= is Grace

DM25

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Jesus does say differently, didn't you read the scripture? Do I really have to go over something so simply stated word by word to help you understand?
I already told you what that scripture meant. It means those who reject the gospel, that is doing evil because you can only be made righteous through Christ. Those who choose their dead works of the law over him. This was specifically to the pharisees, a lot of what Jesus preached in his time was to the religious pharisees who were still in bondage to the law. Always read verses in context. Which means don't take the verse blindly and read what it says in context to the rest of scripture... Read the verses before and after it to understand it.

John 5
"After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem."

We can already see in this context, John 5 was about Jesus addressing the Jews who were under the law.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Those who deny the gospel will be condemned. What do you mean now what?

Are you seriously asking me that? You say we don't have to do good and can do evil and still get to heaven, while the scripture showed just the exact opposite, so now what, do you see the error in your claims or not?
How much good?

Do you ignore Paul in the first three chapters of Romans?

Then the both of you are going to act like nothing has happened here and you weren't just proven wrong dead to rights with you OSAS?

This is what you need to address, nothing else. You say we don't have to do good in order to get to heaven, and Jesus says we do have to do good to get to heaven.

Let me try this, do you disagree or agree that is what you both claimed and that Jesus claimed what he did? Just a straight answer please, I realize this is where the spin has to kick in full speed in order to thwart an absolute truth, but I'd rather not waste time with that because absolute truth cannot be thwarted.
 
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DM25

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Are you seriously asking me that? You say we don't have to do good and can do evil and still get to heaven, while the scripture showed just the exact opposite, so now what, do you see the error in your claims or not?
No scripture does not claim opposite. EVERYONE is evil. There is nothing you can do to stop that. WE CAN'T BECOME RIGHTEOUS BY OUR WORKS. That's why Jesus came to die on the cross for us. We are made righteous THROUGH HIM NOT OUR WORKS. You not doing what is evil does not make you righteous, everyone is bad, which is why everyone needs Jesus. What don't you understand? We are not under the curse of the law. And that verse you posted, please read above my reply to it to explain it... Please take verses in context. You just don't get it... All I can do is pray for you. Your fleshly mindset takes the real gospel as a "licence to sin" but really it is a "licence to rest" and focusing on Jesus not on sin will most likely result in you sinning less anyway when you rely on his grace.... But we will never be sinless. All I can do is pray that you understand the gospel.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I already told you what that scripture meant. It means those who reject the gospel, that is doing evil because you can only be made righteous through Christ.

I don't see that anywhere at all in that scripture, nothing even close to your explanation. You changed the meaning to where the verse is no longer recognizable, and if you disagree show me exactly where it says what you claim it does there in the quotes.
 
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timewerx

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I am open to the possibility of OSAS
I hope everyone had a blessed Easter.
Jesus is risen, and isn't this Good News.

We might add to our prayer time a prayer for those who were injured in Sri Lanka, and of course for their families.
--------------------------------------

So, i wanted to ask you... Have any of you ever heard of OSAS?
This concept is an interesting outcome of salvation, and a prime result of Grace.
Its a "man made" idea, and similar to the word "Trinity", its not found in any Greek Text, or in any Translation of Scripture that make up any New Testament, extant.

Now, about "Grace".
I like this word "Grace", as this word describes the nature of God, and gives us an understanding of what the Love of God is like. His love is Grace.
I guess we could say that a combination of words like (charity, compassion, mercy, hope, goodness, forgiveness), and similar could barely try to help us understand God and His nature of Grace, because its Salvation that really spotlights, "Grace", as this is God giving the life of His Son, for the undeserving, and in this we see......Grace.......The Grace of God.

If we consider that Jesus is the heart of God, and when we have seen Jesus, we have seen the Father, then Grace also accurately describes ......Jesus.
Jesus, literally IS Grace.
This could be explained or demonstrated by the idea that God Himself, wrapped in human flesh, born of a virgin, was "manifested as a man, as a Savior, to take away the sin of the world"......and He did.
Jesus bore the sin of the world, but the application of this Grace, is not executed into/unto a person, unless they meet the one requirement that God requires for Him to give to you the "Righteousness of Christ:....and your FAITH, is the one "work" that God requires for you to receive the imputed Righteousness of HIMSELF.
No other work will He accept from you, to save you, and recreate you as "born again" for eternity.

The Blood Atonement is Grace.......and Salvation is a product of God's Grace.
The Cross, the blood of Jesus, the resurrection, these are all examples of Grace as a literal reality, regarding how the Love of God is expressed towards all of His creation, as perfect love and mercy and hope.

Another truth and perfect way to express Grace/Salvation, in the Christian context, would be......OSAS.

So, what is this, exactly? As there are many deceits written about it in books, and pamphlets, and on forums like this one, and many denominations are probably originally birthed as some type of resistance to the very idea of what they think it means.
What i can tell you, is that the KJV and the idea/subject of OSAS, get insulted more by Christians, then any of the cults you find, such as JW's, and Mormons, and others.
Yes, the KJV and OSAS, endure more mean spirited carnal ridicule, by people who say they are born again, then any true false religious cult, or all of them, combined.
And this is fascinating, as the reality is, most, maybe 90 % of the people who have such hatred in their heart for both the KJV and idea of OSAS, actually have a very skewed and misinformed understanding of both.........and its to this point, i'll write a brief bit of clarification, regarding only one......OSAS.

So what is it?......What is OSAS?......... well, simply put its God's Grace.
Thats what it is.
First, its an understanding that you are born again only once, and that you can't be "unborn again".
Just as you can't go back into your mother's womb, you also can't stop being 'in Christ".
You can't be "unborn" as a heavenly Son of God, just like you can't be unborn from the Mother who birthed you into this earthly existence.
Born is Born.....done is done........"It is finished", once it is applied to you..(Blood Atonement).
So, OSAS, is an understanding-comprehension of Salvation and of the Blood Atonement, that realizes that the mercy of God that saved you, is the same mercy that keeps you saved.
Its the SAME. = He who saved you, will keep you saved., and you have no part in this...none.
Its an understanding that the Law that once judged you as a sinner, has been abolished by the Cross, and thereby has no more power or authority to judge you ever again. This is why the scripture says that "Grace came by Jesus", and we are "Under Grace" now, and no longer under (being judged by) the Law.
Romans 4:8...study it.

And this means that God judged Himself on a Cross, as guilty for our sin, and this judgment will never fall again on a born again Son of God in Eternity/Heaven, as it already fell on Jesus The Christ, on earth.
If you, the reader, are not saved, if you are not born again, and you die, you will meet God as your Judge, and you can realize what happened to Jesus on a Cross, to honestly evaluate what you are up-against, for eternity, if you die as a Christ Rejector.
But if you are born again, then you will never meet God as Judge in heaven, as Christ has already met the Judge for you, on earth.
You will only meet your God as your Father, ......IF you are born again.

Then there is this part. A person who realizes that OSAS, is just giving God full credit for saving them and keeping them saved, also understands that they are to "be ye holy, as God is holy"...>"present your body a living sacrifice"..... everyday, every minute... without FAIL.
See...
OSAS, is not a "license to sin", as it is portrayed by liars and similar.....not at all.
OSAS, is simply the understanding of "born again"....which gives GOD and Christ full credit, for Salvation...for saving us and keeping us saved.
A person who understands that God saves once, and that "born again" happens once, and
"God is the author and finisher of our faith, and that the God who started Salvation in us, is faithful to complete it".....OSAS =believes this truth, and does not try to add their self effort (works) in place OF this truth.... that God alone saves you and keeps you saved.
Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2

OSAS, defined....= simply gives God full credit for Salvation......the beginning of it, and the ending of it.
Thats it.
Simple.

And finally, a person who understands that Grace, is OSAS...(they are the same), that Salvation itself is explained perfectly by OSAS.....WE understand also a very important understanding.
And this is where the problem starts for legalists, as its this one misunderstanding, that if they could come to understand this one theological fact, and grasp it, they could come to see the Light, that Grace is actually OSAS.

Here is their issue.......... A Legalist, or someone who hates OSAS, does not understand that our Christian Discipleship, is something we do because we ARE saved, and never something we do to try to save ourselves or keep ourselves saved.
In other words....Salvation, is all of God, applied to us...and then, ONCE WE HAVE IT.... we try to live a lifestyle (Discipleship) that reflects what we have become, that is caused and kept ONLY by God and the Blood of Jesus.
The legalist, has the idea that God started salvation, and they finish it by their lifestyle, and if they get this wrong, or don't do enough, then, God will remove them from the Book of Life, and Jesus will find a way out of their body, and take the Holy Spirit with Him.
Which of course, is impossible, but that is what would have to happen, if you could "lose it".(lose your salvation). And so, OSAS, understands that this is not possible. Its not possible for Jesus to exit you once He is living IN YOU and you are "in Christ"..= "unborn again". However the legalist will insist that this can happen if you dont continue in a lifestyle that they feel QUALIFIES you to stay saved and inherit heaven by works, ONLY if you continue.....

So, one thing to add... and for you to consider.
Every work, you can do for God... commandment keeping, confessing sins, missionary work, joining a church, living a holy lifestyle.... Listen, all of these DEEDS, can be done, even if Jesus never hung as God on a Cross.
Now think about that...
In other words, all that a legalist is doing to "stay saved".. all of it, can be done by ANYONE, and Jesus never had to come down here as God and die, if any of this could save you.
So, a question for you legalist....= Would any of those works you are doing that you can do, before the Cross was given, or after.......If there was NO CROSS, would any of your works, works, works, save you?
NO !!
Then why would you believe that if none of those can save you, and only Jesus Saves, .. would you believe that what won't save you without the Blood Atonement, the CROSS......why would you think any of these works, if not done after you are SAVED, that this could cause you not to be saved?
This type Legalist mentality, is not only missing truth, its missing Logic.
So, a legalist believes that what can't save them...is able to take away their salvation, if they dont do the LIST of works, whatever that is, (till they die) as its a different list for each legalist.
> Wild.

So, the OSAS person, understands that all that legalism junk, is not something they will ever be found dead worrying about, because they understand that the God who saves us, keeps us saved, and that is OSAS.......thats what it means.
It means to give full credit to God and Christ for Salvation....Both saving us and keeping us saved, as this is GRACE, and GRACE is OSAS.

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2

I am open to the concept of OSAS.

However, salvation is so much more than many Christians think or like to think. There are many Christians who aren't saved according to these verses:

For instance, belief:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Turning away from sinning / unrighteous living:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


Expression of faith through love:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And finally, love through actions:

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
 
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DM25

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I don't see that anywhere at all in that scripture, nothing even close to your explanation. You changed the meaning to where the verse is no longer recognizable, and if you disagree show me exactly where it says what you claim it does there in the quotes.
I didn't change any meaning. Anytime you see Jesus having connections with the Jews or the scribes and pharisees (besides his disciples) it is always about them accusing him of "breaking the law" or Jesus teaching him the new ways away from the old curse of the law that came from Adam and into rest in him... And this is proven by the first passage of John 5 in he is addressing the Jews here. All over scripture he refers to "evil" as rejection of him and continuing to follow the dead works of the law. Paul continued this after Jesus had died and the law has been fulfilled.
 
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Kenny'sID

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No scripture does not claim opposite. EVERYONE is evil. There is nothing you can do to stop that.

Huh? what Does that have to do with us making an attempt to stop sinning as a lifestyle? What does that have to do with trying to be good? Why are you trying to confuse such a simple issue? Are you now saying we can't do good? What your using there is a very common tactic that holds no water whatsoever, as in we sin, so why not sin a lot/as a lifestyle, no point in trying to be good...or in short we sin so we should sin...ridiculous, and the really have you buying that junk...again, amazing.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I didn't change any meaning. Anytime you see Jesus having connections with the Jews or the scribes and pharisees (besides his disciples) it is always about them accusing him of "breaking the law" or Jesus teaching him the new ways away from the old curse of the law that came from Adam and into rest in him... And this is proven by the first passage of John 5 in he is addressing the Jews here. All over scripture he refers to "evil" as rejection of him and continuing to follow the dead works of the law. Paul continued this after Jesus had died and the law has been fulfilled.

Yes, you did change it, and once again, if you disagree, then instead of conveniently skipping my request, do as i asked and show me where what you said is anywhere in that scripture? Please prove it says what you say it does, and that you didn't just make it up.

Seems you now have given yourself a free ticket to make up scripture and paste it over top what Jesus clearly said.
 
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DM25

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I am open to the possibility of OSAS


I am open to the concept of OSAS.

However, salvation is so much more than many Christians think or like to think. There are many Christians who aren't saved according to these verses:

For instance, belief:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Turning away from sinning / unrighteous living:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


Expression of faith through love:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And finally, love through actions:

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
Dead wrong. YOU ARE TWISTING SCRIPTURE. Another person taking verses OUT OF CONTEXT. You take a verse alone without taking it in context to feed your agenda. I rebuke your false teachings in Jesus' mighty name. You are not saved by your works. Please repent because you believe in false teachings... Salvation is by grace and grace alone.

John 14:12
"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

Jesus is talking to his 12 disciples... He is literally speaking to someone here, he is not making a general statement of salvation. This is SPECIFICALLY to the disciples.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Umm do you not know you are none of these things when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Your identity is in Christ, and your new spirit in Christ goes to heaven... That only happens when you believe in him. YOUR FLESH does not go to heaven, and you are NOT DEFINED BY YOUR FLESH anymore. Meaning you are not labeled as these things in the new spirit of Christ. You no longer have the identity of an idolater or adulterer, etc. regardless if you give in to the flesh and do it... Your flesh will always sin no matter what. Your identity is in CHRIST when you believe on him.


Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. But "love" is a fruit of the holy spirit, and your new man, it has nothing to do with works or your flesh... Or if you yell at your neighbour because you are annoyed by him... It's ridiculous the twisting you do.


1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

THE ENTIRE BOOK OF 1 JOHN IS ABOUT HOW WE SHOULD HAVE JOY IN OUR WALK WITH GOD AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO TO BE IN DISCIPLESHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST, NOT HOW TO GET SAVED.

Nice try buddy, but twisting bible verses don't go well with me. Anyone who tries to twist the gospel will not get away with it, not on my watch.
 
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DM25

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Yes, you did change it, and once again, if you disagree, then instead of conveniently skipping my request, do as i asked and show me where what you said is anywhere in that scripture? Please prove it says what you say it does, and that you didn't just make it up.

Seems you now have given yourself a free ticket to make up scripture and paste it over top what Jesus clearly said.
No, I actually read scripture in context with the help of the holy spirit unlike you who builds a theology and agenda over one verse without reading context... READ Who Jesus was addressing and what he was really teaching, because you obviously don't understand and think it is about works saving you, which is heretical, Jesus taught that in him you will have eternal life and believing in the gospel that he died for your sins, not your works or your performance.
 
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DM25

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Huh? what Does that have to do with us making an attempt to stop sinning as a lifestyle? What does that have to do with trying to be good? Why are you trying to confuse such a simple issue? Are you now saying we can't do good? What your using there is a very common tactic that holds no water whatsoever, as in we sin, so why not sin a lot/as a lifestyle, no point in trying to be good...or in short we sin so we should sin...ridiculous, and the really have you buying that junk...again, amazing.
You making an attempt to stop sinning DOES NOT SAVE YOU. DEAL WITH IT. I know you have pride in your heart and you want to feel as if your works justify you, they don't... Jesus' finished work on the cross is what saves you, belief in that is what justifies you. Not you "making an attempt to stop sinning". You believe in false heretical religion.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I am open to the possibility of OSAS


I am open to the concept of OSAS.

However, salvation is so much more than many Christians think or like to think. There are many Christians who aren't saved according to these verses:

For instance, belief:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Turning away from sinning / unrighteous living:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


Expression of faith through love:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And finally, love through actions:

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

TW, don't worry about what ant OSAS'r is claiming, or accuses you of, it's 100% clear to me their tactics are pretty low, and denial? I won't even get into that.

And please, don't be open to OSAS at all, just read the last few pages, see what is does to a person. We don't want that happening to you.

It is not a sin to be obedient to God.
 
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Kenny'sID

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No, I actually read scripture in context with the help of the holy spirit unlike you who builds a theology and agenda over one verse without reading context... READ Who Jesus was addressing and what he was really teaching, because you obviously don't understand and think it is about works saving you, which is heretical, Jesus taught that in him you will have eternal life and believing in the gospel that he died for your sins, not your works or your performance.

Now you are blaming the holy Spirit for your changing what Jesus said to something completely different? The holy Spirit would not do that..

A house divided against itself cannot stand.


I'd be ashamed, and i won't sit here an listen to such.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You making an attempt to stop sinning DOES NOT SAVE YOU. DEAL WITH IT.

Did mention this verse yet? ;)

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
 
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Thanks for this OP - I have just been hammered on a thread were folks openly admitted to hating OSAS'ers.

So what point dear brother are you trying to make here. That people that don't hold to OSAS are more prone to yielding to the flesh than folk who hold to it? There's people walking in the flesh on whatever position they hold.
 
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timewerx

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Dead wrong. YOU ARE TWISTING SCRIPTURE. Another person taking verses OUT OF CONTEXT. You take a verse alone without taking it in context to feed your agenda. I rebuke your false teachings in Jesus' mighty name. You are not saved by your works. Please repent because you believe in false teachings... Salvation is by grace and grace alone.

John 14:12
"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

Jesus is talking to his 12 disciples... He is literally speaking to someone here, he is not making a general statement of salvation. This is SPECIFICALLY to the disciples.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Umm do you not know you are none of these things when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Your identity is in Christ, and your new spirit in Christ goes to heaven... That only happens when you believe in him. YOUR FLESH does not go to heaven, and you are NOT DEFINED BY YOUR FLESH anymore. Meaning you are not labeled as these things in the new spirit of Christ. You no longer have the identity of an idolater or adulterer, etc. regardless if you give in to the flesh and do it... Your flesh will always sin no matter what. Your identity is in CHRIST when you believe on him.


Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. But "love" is a fruit of the holy spirit, and your new man, it has nothing to do with works or your flesh... Or if you yell at your neighbour because you are annoyed by him... It's ridiculous the twisting you do.


1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

THE ENTIRE BOOK OF 1 JOHN IS ABOUT HOW WE SHOULD HAVE JOY IN OUR WALK WITH GOD AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO TO BE IN DISCIPLESHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST, NOT HOW TO GET SAVED.

Nice try buddy, but twisting bible verses don't go well with me. Anyone who tries to twist the gospel will not get away with it, not on my watch.

I'm not saying that works will save you.
 
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DM25

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OSAS is a 16 century invention, never talked about in the Church which totally forgets about Jesus and Paul talking about avoiding falling from Grace.

And yes, the Bible talks about falling from Grace ;)
Umm no, falling from grace refers to those who choose their works even after hearing the gospel. Like in Jesus' time, those who chose to continue on in the dead works of the law rather than trusting him. So you are wrong, again.

It is not a 16th century invention, it is God's love and abounding grace and it is biblical.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
 
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Umm no, falling from grace refers to those who choose their works even after hearing the gospel. Like in Jesus' time, those who chose to continue on in the dead works of the law rather than trusting him. So you are wrong, again.
Nope, that doesn't say in the Bible. But keep believing in your 500 years old theology.
 
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