OSAS....= is Grace

Kenny'sID said:

I mean are you required not to do evil in general, like break some of the commandments as a lifestyle, say living with a spouse instead of marrying, as a quick for instance.

Yes or no if you will

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"required"...? (thinking)...

How about "bound by Love", ect... All that Christ did and who He is, ect... "Compels" us to do and be good, ect... Be what Christ wants us to be, ect... Aim for that, ect... "Obey", ect...

Not about us though, we love because He first Loved us, ect... and for that reason alone, ect...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

"required"...? (thinking)...

How about "bound by Love", ect... All that Christ did and who He is, ect... "Compels" us to do and be good, ect... Be what Christ wants us to be, ect... "Obey", ect...

God Bless!

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So are you in agreement with DM25 in that we don't have to do good in order to get to heaven?

And can we do evil and still get to heaven?

And we could all take a lesson in his straightforward yes or no answers

Kenny'sID said:

I mean are you required not to do evil in general, like break some of the commandments as a lifestyle, say living with a spouse instead of marrying, as a quick for instance.

None of these are trick questions, BTW.

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I don't know why you keep repeating the same question I have answered billions of times already... I already answered you on that, the answer is no. No one can "keep" the commandments, which is why Jesus had to come. It's impossible to keep the commandments perfectly. You are not saved by your works, the gospel is not hard to understand. We go to heaven by what Jesus has done for us, not what we do. And I already showed you the verse it is not of our works, so no man shall boast. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Kenny'sID said:

So are you in agreement with

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Seeking to obey, finding the path and staying on it, ect...

God Bless!

Kenny'sID said:

Then you are saying we don't even have to do good to make to Heaven, and faith only will get us there?

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DM25 said:

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."

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Kenny'sID said:

I wait for a more direct answer from whom the question was posed to, a yes or no maybe, then I'll comment on yours.

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DM25 said:

The answer is an absolute yes.

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Kenny'sID said:

Are you required not to do evil in order to get to heaven?

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DM25 said:

If by doing evil you mean denying the gospel of Jesus Christ, then yes.

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Kenny'sID said:

I mean are you required not to do evil in general, like break some of the commandments as a lifestyle, say living with a spouse instead of marrying, as a quick for instance.

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DM25 said:

I don't know why you keep repeating the same question I have answered billions of times already... I already answered you on that, the answer is no.

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So you clearly state we don't have to do good in order to get to heaven and we are not required not to do evil for the same reason, yet Jesus says differently in the following scripture. So what am I to think now, just assume listening to Jesus is not a requirement either? Or we believe in/have faith in Jesus when that works for us but when it comes to believing what he says, not a requirement? Aren't they one in the same? So confusing this OSAS.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Neogaia777 said:

Seeking to obey, finding the path and staying on it, ect...

God Bless!

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And that has what to do with my question?

Kenny'sID said:

And that has what to do with my question?

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What is required of us, what we are to do or not do, ect...? and (I added) how to truly do or not do it, ect...? Or at least maybe might have been trying to get into a discussion about that, ect...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

What is required of us, what we are to do or not do, ect...? and (I added) how to truly do or not do it, ect...? Or at least maybe might have been trying to get into a discussion about that, ect...

God Bless!

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They were clear yes or no questions but too late now.

Kenny'sID said:

Then you are saying we don't even have to do good to make to Heaven, and faith only will get us there?

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Ok! What I am saying is our good works will neither justify us or earn us a passage into heaven.
It takes the perfect righteousness of Christ to get to heaven, but since we all fall short of that righteousness He offers it as a FREE GIFT to those who come to him as sinful creatures in need of a Savior. To those, he receives and bestows the new birth, thus imparting a new heart and freeing one from their sin to serve with that willing new heart.
IOW, we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that is justified will be attended with good works spurred on by a new and freed heart.
Our good works are still imperfect but covered by His robe of perfect righteousness.
It's Jesus Christ that actually 'get's us there'.
When heaven is a free gift then service is a privilege.

Kenny'sID said:

So are you in agreement with DM25 in that we don't have to do good in order to get to heaven?

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I would say that our motives and motivations and reasons, ect, for doing or being good, ect, if they are not 100% pure are like filthy rags and can be to your detriment, actually...

And, "Required" again...? You will do and be good and do good works, "because you are loved/saved, ect", and not to "get or be or become loved or saved", ect...

Kenny'sID said:

And can we do evil and still get to heaven?

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First off, what kind of evil are we talking about here...? Secondly, if we do not or cannot, then everyone is screwed from my perspective on it, a perspective that I fully believe God shares, ect... Lastly, it is matter of judgment, and God's judgment alone, and we should not be putting ourselves in the place or places of God, or even gods, ect...

You said OSAS was very confusing right...? Well all matters of any, especially "just judgments" at all are, as they are much more complicated and complex than I think you fully realize...

And is best left up to God, ect...

That's my take on it anyway...

God Bless!

Kenny'sID said:

They were clear yes or no questions but too late now.

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Were you talking about the specific situation you mentioned then, cause I may have made the mistake of thinking you were saying "in general" ect...?

And some yes or no questions cannot be answered simply (not honestly anyway) with just simply a simple yes or no answer either...

Cause it's not that black and/or white, ect...

God Bless!

crossnote said:

Ok! What I am saying is our good works will neither justify us or earn us a passage into heaven.
It takes the perfect righteousness of Christ to get to heaven, but since we all fall short of that righteousness He offers it as a FREE GIFT to those who come to him as sinful creatures in need of a Savior. To those he receives and bestows the new birth, thus imparting a new heart and freeing one from their sin to serve with that willing new heart.
IOW, we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that is justified will be attended with good works spurred on by a new and freed heart.
Our good works are still imperfect but covered by His robe of perfect righteousness.
It's Jesus Christ that actually 'get's us there'.

When heaven is a free gift then service is a privilege.

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That's not what Jesus says:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

So now what?

Kenny'sID said:

So you clearly state we don't have to do good in order to get to heaven and we are not required not to do evil for the same reason, yet Jesus says differently in the following scripture. So what am I to think now, just assume listening to Jesus is not a requirement either? Or we believe in/have faith in Jesus when that works for us but when it comes to believing what he says, not a requirement? Aren't they one in the same? So confusing this OSAS.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

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Yes I do clearly state that, because God clearly states that. We are NOT justified by our works. If you believe otherwise, you are not saved, simple as that. Jesus does not say differently in scripture, he says we are justified by faith, not works as well. Those who have done what is good? That is not referring to works, that is referring to believing on the gospel, not your works. Believing in the finished work of the cross. If you don't believe that, you are condemned. Plain and simple. Your questions are easily answered with scripture, but like the pharisees who think with the flesh, you continue to focus on works and ask questions about people's performance and works rather than focusing on the grace of Jesus Christ and his finished work.

Kenny'sID said:

That's not what Jesus says:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

So now what?

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Those who deny the gospel will be condemned. What do you mean now what?

Neogaia777 said:

Were you talking about the specific situation you mentioned then, cause I may have made the mistake of thinking you were saying "in general" ect...?

And some yes or no questions cannot be answered simply (not honestly anyway) with just simply a simple yes or no answer either...

Cause it's not that black and/or white, ect...

God Bless!

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like I said to late now. If you guys aren't going to give straight answers to straight up simple questions, I'm just going to start assuming you have no answers and can only beat around the bush.

DM25 said:

Yes I do clearly state that, because God clearly states that. We are NOT justified by our works. If you believe otherwise, you are not saved, simple as that. Jesus does not say differently in scripture, he says we are justified by faith, not works as well. Those who have done what is good? That is not referring to works, that is referring to believing on the gospel, not your works. Believing in the finished work of the cross. If you don't believe that, you are condemned. Plain and simple. Your questions are easily answered with scripture, but like the pharisees who think with the flesh, you continue to focus on works and ask questions about people's performance and works rather than focusing on the grace of Jesus Christ and his finished work.

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Jesus does say differently, didn't you read the scripture? Do I really have to go over something so simply stated word by word to help you understand?

Kenny'sID said:

That's not what Jesus says:

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

So now what?

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How much good?

Do you ignore Paul in the first three chapters of Romans?

The gospel is not hard to understand. Some of you people make it difficult. Only those with a fleshly mindset sees the gospel and says "wait does this mean we can live evil and sin all we want and still go to heaven"? That's your flesh talking and says a lot about you if that's where your focus is on, not Jesus... When you rest in Jesus you don't even desire to do evil things all that much. When you rely on his grace, God can help you do anything. Every single born again Christian I have met does not purposely abuse his grace and live carnal lives and is some of the most loving people I have ever met... But every religious false gospel believer I met looks good on the outside but is in bad secret sin and is broken on the inside full of pride and hypocrisy. Will there be born again Christians who will live carnal lives? I have never met any personally, but yes as in 1 Corinthians there are some. And God will discipline them and if they keep disobeying they will suffer earthly consequences like early death as well as loss of rewards in heaven but again, they get eternal life in heaven because they trust in Jesus Christ alone. But as I said, every person who believes in the free grace of Jesus Christ who I have met were wonderful people doing good service to the Lord and they obviously never boasted about it. They were way better than people who believed in false gospels and Lordship Salvationists who boast about their sin. You see the ugliness in those people and they have a lot of pride. Many of these people get caught living a double life in bad sin or end up in destruction, that's what happens when you trust in yourself and not Jesus alone. What makes me sad is that many of these people who trust in their works will end up surprised on judgement day and face God's wrath and that breaks my heart. Which is why we need to preach the gospel to everyone as much as we can, especially now in these end times when many false gospels like Lordship Salvation are making waves.

crossnote said:

Ok! What I am saying is our good works will neither justify us or earn us a passage into heaven.
It takes the perfect righteousness of Christ to get to heaven, but since we all fall short of that righteousness He offers it as a FREE GIFT to those who come to him as sinful creatures in need of a Savior. To those, he receives and bestows the new birth, thus imparting a new heart and freeing one from their sin to serve with that willing new heart.
IOW, we are justified by faith alone, but the faith that is justified will be attended with good works spurred on by a new and freed heart.
Our good works are still imperfect but covered by His robe of perfect righteousness.
It's Jesus Christ that actually 'get's us there'.
When heaven is a free gift then service is a privilege.

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I was just going to add "a new and freed heart that will not desire to sin anymore, especially in and with "time" ect...

Doesn't mean it won't happen sometimes, but hopefully we eventually get to a point where were at least not doing it on purpose anymore, hopefully, but even if not, your probably still saved (maybe) (more than likely)...

It's going to depend on things and factors that only God alone is capable of calculating or balancing out or whatever, dependent on "all kind of factors" and "lots of things", really, that I'm not going to even attempt to go into very deeply or in much detail here...

One thing that will really tip those scales though is a solid belief and deep, personal, intimate relationship with Christ though... if He will say He knows you, ect...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

I was just going to add "a new and freed heart that will not desire to sin anymore, especially in and with "time" ect...

Doesn't mean it won't happen sometimes, but hopefully we eventually get to a point where were at least not doing it on purpose anymore, hopefully, but even if not, your probably still saved (maybe) (more than likely)...

It's going to depend on things and factors that only God alone is capable of calculating or balancing out or whatever, dependent on "all kind of factors" and "lots of things", really, that I'm not going to even attempt to go into very deeply or in much detail here...

One thing that will really tip those scales though is a solid belief and deep, personal, intimate relationship with Christ though... if He will say He knows you, ect...

God Bless!

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Yes, there's always the flesh, the world, the devil to contend with. We continue to fall short of perfection and our only hope is Jesus Christ and His righteousness.